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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Update: 94 on MetaCritic! Super Mario 3D World: A Game Once Doubted Is Now Highest Rated Game of The Holiday! Anybody Eating Crow?

Gee-Gee on 19 November 2013
F0X said:
Gee-Gee said:
F0X said:

What facts? Whether or not something is a "proper" anything is only a matter of opinion. I simply been pointing out that this, after all, is a 3D Mario game, and some people even had the gall to debate me on it by calling 3D World and 3D Land "improper".

It's the No True Scotsman fallacy, and it's being applied to video games. I'm sick of this attitude.

Okay, first and foremost, every studio has its expectations, as does every franchise. There is nothing wrong with expecting the best from the best.

If you are a fan of something very popular and highly-acclaimed, then a follow-up to that which doesn't meet that quality will let fans down. You can be upset by that attitude, but when your beloved company falls on its face due to failure in sales, then your problem becomes much more than the attitudes of some people.

I admit that there's a way to go about it, but I don't see a problem with people having a hard time with a company they love getting lazy. It's actually very healthy for the company, it gives them a sounding board. If the game lacks quality, I believe it's fair for them to say "this is not a true ... game".

As an example: Wand of gamelion. 


An extreme example. In this case, 3D Land was already highly successful and well-recieved, and even from the E3 trailer it was clear that 3D World would be greatly expanding on its foundation. Also, it was the first trailer of 3D World. It would've been best for people to wait for the game to come out before declaring that it wasn't a quality product. I pointed that out multiple times. It's too early to say it won't be half as good as Galaxy. It's too early to say that it's basically 3D Land with multiplayer. I didn't make a prediction that it would be amazing - I just took the sensible route!

And that's where I agree with you. But I also disagree with "No true Scotsman" being a fallacy. To me, there's a lot of truth to the "No True Scotsman" way of thinking, it's what made Apple great when Steve Jobs returned to it. "No true Apple" would behave the way it did after Jobs was fired.

P.S. More in my updated post!



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F0X on 19 November 2013
Gee-Gee said:
F0X said:
Gee-Gee said:

Okay, first and foremost, every studio has its expectations, as does every franchise. There is nothing wrong with expecting the best from the best.

If you are a fan of something very popular and highly-acclaimed, then a follow-up to that which doesn't meet that quality will let fans down. You can be upset by that attitude, but when your beloved company falls on its face due to failure in sales, then your problem becomes much more than the attitudes of some people.

I admit that there's a way to go about it, but I don't see a problem with people having a hard time with a company they love getting lazy. It's actually very healthy for the company, it gives them a sounding board. If the game lacks quality, I believe it's fair for them to say "this is not a true ... game".

As an example: Wand of gamelion. 


An extreme example. In this case, 3D Land was already highly successful and well-recieved, and even from the E3 trailer it was clear that 3D World would be greatly expanding on its foundation. Also, it was the first trailer of 3D World. It would've been best for people to wait for the game to come out before declaring that it wasn't a quality product. I pointed that out multiple times. It's too early to say it won't be half as good as Galaxy. It's too early to say that it's basically 3D Land with multiplayer. I didn't make a prediction that it would be amazing - I just took the sensible route!

And that's where I agree with you. But I also disagree with "No true Scotsman" being a fallacy. To me, there's a lot of truth to the "No True Scotsman" way of thinking, it's what made Apple great when Steve Jobs returned to it. "No true Apple" would behave the way it did after Jobs left.

P.S. More in my updated post!


Long story short: I think "No true Scotsman" is opinion-based, regardless how much actual truth it employs. I can use the same twisted logic to say that Galaxy isn't a "proper" 3D Mario game, because no true 3D Mario game has spherical platforms. No true Scotsman implies that there exists a rigid formula that a game must adhere to, and in my opinion, the only people qualified to establish any legitimate, factual boundaries... are the people who have creative control over the franchise. It's known as "Word of God", in storytelling circles.



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WagnerPaiva on 19 November 2013

If the next Zelda reaches this same level of quality, it will be really hard to resist the WiiU, and, in the name of god, do NOT make a Fatal Frame U, I would have to buy the console for this alone



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

curl-6 on 19 November 2013
WagnerPaiva said:
If the next Zelda reaches this same level of quality, it will be really hard to resist the WiiU, and, in the name of god, do NOT make a Fatal Frame U, I would have to buy the console for this alone

I would sell my freaking soul for a Fatal Frame Wii U, Fatal Frame 4 and the Wii remake of #2 were among my favourite Wii games.



Weedlab on 19 November 2013

I wasn't a doubter, but I didn't expect it to be THAT good. I had already planned on getting it anyway so no biggie.



 

Playstation = The Beast from the East

Sony + Nintendo = WIN! PS3 + PSV + PS4 + Wii U + 3DS


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archbrix on 19 November 2013
tbone51 said:

Beautiful.  Three more days.



Gee-Gee on 19 November 2013
F0X said:

Long story short: I think "No true Scotsman" is opinion-based, regardless how much actual truth it employs. I can use the same twisted logic to say that Galaxy isn't a "proper" 3D Mario game, because no true 3D Mario game has spherical platforms. No true Scotsman implies that there exists a rigid formula that a game must adhere to, and in my opinion, the only people qualified to establish any legitimate, factual boundaries... are the people who have creative control over the franchise. It's known as "Word of God", in storytelling circles.

Well, putting your and my views on "No true Scotsman" together, we come to the conclusion that being able to recognize something as a "proper" game is important (as was the case for Wand of Gamelon), but can also be misused (as would be the case for calling Galaxy not a proper 3D Mario due to the use of spheroids). 



WagnerPaiva on 19 November 2013
curl-6 said:
WagnerPaiva said:
If the next Zelda reaches this same level of quality, it will be really hard to resist the WiiU, and, in the name of god, do NOT make a Fatal Frame U, I would have to buy the console for this alone

I would sell my freaking soul for a Fatal Frame Wii U, Fatal Frame 4 and the Wii remake of #2 were among my favourite Wii games.


It would be so amazing, with the gamepad and all...



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

F0X on 19 November 2013
Gee-Gee said:
F0X said:

Long story short: I think "No true Scotsman" is opinion-based, regardless how much actual truth it employs. I can use the same twisted logic to say that Galaxy isn't a "proper" 3D Mario game, because no true 3D Mario game has spherical platforms. No true Scotsman implies that there exists a rigid formula that a game must adhere to, and in my opinion, the only people qualified to establish any legitimate, factual boundaries... are the people who have creative control over the franchise. It's known as "Word of God", in storytelling circles.

Well, putting your and my views on "No true Scotsman" together, we come to the conclusion that being able to recognize something as a "proper" game is important (as was the case for Wand of Gamelon), but can also be misused (as would be the case for calling Galaxy not a proper 3D Mario due to the use of spheroids). 


And since it can be misused, I tend to go by Word of God. Word of God says that Wand of Gamelon isn't canon. It exists, but not a part of the official Zelda series, because Nintendo refuses to acknowledge it. That's all, folks.

Am I willing to bend on this point? Sure. Like I said, I find this whole thing to be opinion-based, and everyone has opinions on things. I don't treat Metroid: Other M like a "proper" Metroid even if it's officially part of the series, for example. Yet, I wouldn't go out and claim that it isn't a "true" Metroid game, because I know that different fans have different expectations of the franchise and purism. I agree with you - there's a right way to go about this.

Perhaps then, if a total fan consensus is achieved, a game could be a de facto valid example of "no true Scotsman", because all but a few think that the game is a legitimate entry. Whether or not they're wrong doesn't really matter, because the game will be treated differently regardless. I can't think of any examples, though. The game would have to be pretty darn different, and pretty darn bad, I'd expect.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

prayformojo on 19 November 2013
tbone51 said:

 

Super Mario 3D World has a MetaScore of a 93

Seriously though, with Super Mario 3D World Debut back at E3, Many were disappointed or frustrated! I mean a true 3D Mario is just a sequel of the 3DS Title?

Wow Many of Us were wrong..... So Wrong! With this game being the highest rated title of the holiday and possibly one of the highest in the 8th gen of gaming.... Now is the time for the Ones who doubted Nintendo to step forward and eat...

 

 

Seriously how many of you doubted the game and feel bad about it! Post your answers now!!!

 


The biggest game this "holiday" will be COD, Battlefield,GTA5 or Pokemon.