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Forums - Sony Discussion - I Believe the PS4 Price in Brazil is Just Marketing (Bad and Disrespectful) - Sony Maths Out

Osc89 said:

Are you going with the X1 then? For those prices I would.

PS4. It cost less than R$1800 to import.



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ethomaz said:

Osc89 said:

Are you going with the X1 then? For those prices I would.

PS4. It cost less than R$1800 to import.


That's cool then. It's the equivalent PS4:X1 price ratio the US gets. Can everyone import easily, or is it difficult?



PSN: Osc89

NNID: Oscar89

For curiosity Ethomaz, when did you get your ps3 and for how much in Brazil???



Osc89 said:

That's cool then. It's the equivalent PS4:X1 price ratio the US gets. Can everyone import easily, or is it difficult?

Easily but if you have to use the warranty you need to send the console the the original country .

But the issue is the Day One... I'm sure there won't be units in US to import for Day One ... so I will need to wait until January at least.



ethomaz said:
 

Yeap... MS Brazil will import the Xbone... no production at launch... same for PS4.

From the graph the taxes I know for sure...

+ Taxa de importação: 20%
+ ICMS (SP): 25%
+ COFINS: 7.6%
+ PIS: 1.65%
+ IPI: 50%

The new for me is that "ICMS-ST e Impostos de MVA" but seems like 25% too.

Using the base: R$858

+ Taxa de importação: 172
+ ICMS (SP): 215
+ COFINS: 65
+ PIS: 15
+ IPI: 439

172 + 215 + 65 + 15 + 439 = 906

I can't see how they reach R$2524

Isn't quite like that though, because the taxes are cumulative instead of summative, and you have to compute them on a certain order. I've not bothered to check exactly which order it is, but from what I remember these taxes are going to ammount more or less to R$ 1058. 

ICMS-ST is basically ICMS you pay beforehand if you are going to sell on another state than the one you imported the product into. MVA only applies is the ICMS-ST is lesser on one state compared to another. On practice it means there is no difference on setting different values to ICMS among states since the highest one (25%) is always going to be used. Either way, ICMS-ST is pretty shady on itself because it applies over the price the product is going to be reasonably sold.

So worst case it would be applied over the original price plus the taxes plus the profit margins. If the later are charted to be as high as Sony portrays them to be, that brings us close to R$ 3311, but only for the states that have no seaports. My guess? Sony is pushing for massive profit margins without caring the taxes are going to rise proportionally, and then leveling the price upwards for every state.



 

 

 

 

 

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Send me 2000 usd and you can have both of my ps4s



ethomaz said:

Osc89 said:

That's cool then. It's the equivalent PS4:X1 price ratio the US gets. Can everyone import easily, or is it difficult?

Easily but if you have to use the warranty you need to send the console the the original country .

But the issue is the Day One... I'm sure there won't be units in US to import for Day One ... so I will need to wait until January at least.


Sorry to hear that man. At least you've got GT6 to keep you going. And you aren't going to miss out on Driveclub anyway.



PSN: Osc89

NNID: Oscar89

haxxiy said:

Isn't quite like that though, because the taxes are cumulative instead of summative, and you have to compute them on a certain order. I've not bothered to check exactly which order it is, but from what I remember these taxes are going to ammount more or less to R$ 1058.

ICMS-ST is basically ICMS you pay beforehand if you are going to sell on another state than the one you imported the product into. MVA only applies is the ICMS-ST is lesser on one state compared to another. On practice it means there is no difference on setting different values to ICMS among states since the highest one (25%) is always going to be used. Either way, ICMS-ST is pretty shady on itself because it applies over the price the product is going to be reasonably sold.

So worst case it would be applied over the original price plus the taxes plus the profit margins. If the later are charted to be as high as Sony portrays them to be, that brings us close to R$ 3311, but only for the states that have no seaports. My guess? Sony is pushing for massive profit margins without caring the taxes are going to rise proportionally, and then leveling the price upwards for every state.

Yeah I forgot some taxes are into the base for others

Trying to fix:

BASE: R$858

+ Taxa de importação: 172 (using BASE)
+ ICMS (SP): 387(using BASE + Taxa de importação + IPI)
+ COFINS: 146 (using BASE + Taxa de importação + IPI + ICMS)
+ PIS: 32 (using BASE + Taxa de importação + IPI + ICMS)
+ IPI: 515 (using BASE + Taxa de importação)

Taxes: R$1252

I can't reach R$2524 even using the right math.

BTW we are assumpting Sony Brazil get the PS4 at $400 like the graph shows but you know that Sony Brazil didn't have to pay the "Margem do Varejista" ou "Margem do distribuidor" if they get the console directly from SCEA.

Sony Brazil is not a consumer to pay $400 for the PS4... bullshit over bullshit.



ethomaz said:

haxxiy said:

Isn't quite like that though, because the taxes are cumulative instead of summative, and you have to compute them on a certain order. I've not bothered to check exactly which order it is, but from what I remember these taxes are going to ammount more or less to R$ 1058.

ICMS-ST is basically ICMS you pay beforehand if you are going to sell on another state than the one you imported the product into. MVA only applies is the ICMS-ST is lesser on one state compared to another. On practice it means there is no difference on setting different values to ICMS among states since the highest one (25%) is always going to be used. Either way, ICMS-ST is pretty shady on itself because it applies over the price the product is going to be reasonably sold.

So worst case it would be applied over the original price plus the taxes plus the profit margins. If the later are charted to be as high as Sony portrays them to be, that brings us close to R$ 3311, but only for the states that have no seaports. My guess? Sony is pushing for massive profit margins without caring the taxes are going to rise proportionally, and then leveling the price upwards for every state.

Yeah I forgot some taxes are into the base for others

Trying to fix:

BASE: R$858

+ Taxa de importação: 172 (using BASE)
+ ICMS (SP): 387(using BASE + Taxa de importação + IPI)
+ COFINS: 146 (using BASE + Taxa de importação + IPI + ICMS)
+ PIS: 32 (using BASE + Taxa de importação + IPI + ICMS)
+ IPI: 515 (using BASE + Taxa de importação)

Taxes: R$1252

I can't reach R$2524 even using the right math.

BTW we are assumpting Sony Brazil get the PS4 at $400 like the graph shows but you know that Sony Brazil didn't have to pay the "Margem do Varejista" ou "Margem do distribuidor" if they get the console directly from SCEA.

Sony Brazil is not a consumer to pay $400 for the PS4... bullshit over bullshit.

 

Using the data that you said in Neogaf http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86887198&postcount=697:

Base: 868

Produto com Taxa de importação: 1029,60

+ICMS: 1287,00

+Cofins: 1384,81

+PIS: 1407,66

+IPI:  2111,49

The new for me is that "ICMS-ST e Impostos de MVA" but seems like 25% too.

So...

+ICMS-ST: 2639,36

+Impostos de MVA:  3299,20

+ Margem de Lucro: 4174,10

Yes it's cumulative .



crpj18 said:

Using the data that you said in Neogaf http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86887198&postcount=697:

Base: 868

Produto com Taxa de importação: 1029,60

+ICMS: 1287,00

+Cofins: 1384,81

+PIS: 1407,66

+IPI:  2111,49

The new for me is that "ICMS-ST e Impostos de MVA" but seems like 25% too.

So...

+ICMS-ST: 2639,36

+Impostos de MVA:  3299,20

+ Margem de Lucro: 4174,10

Yes it's cumulative .

Not everything is cumulative like that... every tax have a base.

Impost de importação: BASE.
IPI: BASE + Impost de importação
ICMS: BASE + Impost de importação + IPI (http://www.portaltributario.com.br/guia/icms_bc_ipi.html)
PIS: BASE + Impost de importação + IPI (http://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2013/10/lei-retira-icms-da-base-de-calculo-do-piscofins-na-importacao.html)
COFINS: BASE + Impost de importação + IPI (http://g1.globo.com/economia/noticia/2013/10/lei-retira-icms-da-base-de-calculo-do-piscofins-na-importacao.html)

* It is a new law that removed the ICMS from the calc of PIS and COFINS.

I need to check these ICMS-ST and MVA... I guess the ICMS-ST is close to none.