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Forums - Gaming - Inafune:‘If a Creator Hasn’t Played Mario, They’re Probably not a good Creator’

MDMAlliance on 09 October 2013
HoloDust said:
MDMAlliance said:
HoloDust said:

Why is the concept of Mario not being Holy Grail of all game design so complex for some of you? Nobody is saying that there's nothing to learn from them, but I would really love to hear what game designer that creates tactical war games, or submarine sims, or tactical shooters, or P&C adventures, or construction and managment simulations, or.....I could go on.....has to learn from Mario games?

Seems that some people are either too young, too fanboyish, or simply don't know much about history of computer games (vs console games) to realize that Mario, while having big influence on video games industry (specially its console part), is nowhere near as important or influential for game design in overall as people like to believe.


I think you misunderstand.  It's not about the genre.  It's about making games, regardless of genre.  I would assume that you would agree that there is a common element that separates video games from other forms of entertainment media.  Also, mentality can be another thing a game designer could learn from Mario games.  If you try making a game without knowing the basic mentality you should have while making a game, your game can lack some of the basic mechanics you need to make the game enjoyable.

No, I understand it perfecty, it seems that some of you are not undertanding it. It IS about genre...there's no unified "making games" regardless of genre...game designing for some genres is so different to some other genres, and draws from completely different ancestry, that only very loose definiton of what video game is can put them in the same basket.

That said, and as I stated before, there's lot of things to learn from Mario games, but Inafune's statement is just plain silly, and does not recognise wild diversity of what we today call "game".

clam down.



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HoloDust on 09 October 2013
Incubi said:
HoloDust said:

No, I understand it perfecty, it seems that some of you are not undertanding it. It IS about genre...there's no unified "making games" regardless of genre...game designing for some genres is so different to some other genres, and draws from completely different ancestry, that only very loose definiton of what video game is can put them in the same basket.

That said, and as I stated before, there's lot of things to learn form Mario games, but Inafune's statement is just plain silly, and does not recognise wild diversity of what we today call "game".

Is that you, David Cage? 

No, it's someone that (unlike some other people here) realizes that there are game genres that have nothing in common with some other genres...actually, only thing that makes them both "video games" is method of delivery, i.e. console or computer. Hence, Inafune's statement that you cannot be good "Creator" if you haven't played Mario is not only silly per se (for other reasons I don't even intend to discuss), but completely misguided.



ListerOfSmeg on 09 October 2013

have to say I agree with him. There really isn't a more successful franchise out there than Mario. Every platform game that comes out is compared to his games.
Only thing similar would be GTA in that every sand box game will be compared to it.
Cant think of any other games that way.



MDMAlliance on 09 October 2013
HoloDust said:
Incubi said:
HoloDust said:

No, I understand it perfecty, it seems that some of you are not undertanding it. It IS about genre...there's no unified "making games" regardless of genre...game designing for some genres is so different to some other genres, and draws from completely different ancestry, that only very loose definiton of what video game is can put them in the same basket.

That said, and as I stated before, there's lot of things to learn form Mario games, but Inafune's statement is just plain silly, and does not recognise wild diversity of what we today call "game".

Is that you, David Cage? 

No, it's someone that (unlike some other people here) realizes that there are game genres that have nothing in common with some other genres...actually, only thing that makes them both "video games" is method of delivery, i.e. console or computer. Hence, Inafune's statement that you cannot be good "Creator" if you haven't played Mario is not only silly per se (for other reasons I don't even intend to discuss), but completely misguided.


huehuehue, sounds like to me that you can't rather than not wanting to.



ListerOfSmeg on 09 October 2013
HoloDust said:
Incubi said:
HoloDust said:

No, I understand it perfecty, it seems that some of you are not undertanding it. It IS about genre...there's no unified "making games" regardless of genre...game designing for some genres is so different to some other genres, and draws from completely different ancestry, that only very loose definiton of what video game is can put them in the same basket.

That said, and as I stated before, there's lot of things to learn form Mario games, but Inafune's statement is just plain silly, and does not recognise wild diversity of what we today call "game".

Is that you, David Cage? 

No, it's someone that (unlike some other people here) realizes that there are game genres that have nothing in common with some other genres...actually, only thing that makes them both "video games" is method of delivery, i.e. console or computer. Hence, Inafune's statement that you cannot be good "Creator" if you haven't played Mario is not only silly per se (for other reasons I don't even intend to discuss), but completely misguided.

Sad you let your hate for Mario blind you to whats actually being said.

Engaging the player is a part of any game regardless of genre.

Teaching the gamer how to play is also a part of any game design regardless of genre.

Doing those 2 things is something Mario excels at. Its not about the genre of the game at all. I dont see how you cant see that but its your loss for not being open minded



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Mr Khan on 09 October 2013
Incubi said:
HoloDust said:
MDMAlliance said:
HoloDust said:

Why is the concept of Mario not being Holy Grail of all game design so complex for some of you? Nobody is saying that there's nothing to learn from them, but I would really love to hear what game designer that creates tactical war games, or submarine sims, or tactical shooters, or P&C adventures, or construction and managment simulations, or.....I could go on.....has to learn from Mario games?

Seems that some people are either too young, too fanboyish, or simply don't know much about history of computer games (vs console games) to realize that Mario, while having big influence on video games industry (specially its console part), is nowhere near as important or influential for game design in overall as people like to believe.


I think you misunderstand.  It's not about the genre.  It's about making games, regardless of genre.  I would assume that you would agree that there is a common element that separates video games from other forms of entertainment media.  Also, mentality can be another thing a game designer could learn from Mario games.  If you try making a game without knowing the basic mentality you should have while making a game, your game can lack some of the basic mechanics you need to make the game enjoyable.

No, I understand it perfecty, it seems that some of you are not undertanding it. It IS about genre...there's no unified "making games" regardless of genre...game designing for some genres is so different to some other genres, and draws from completely different ancestry, that only very loose definiton of what video game is can put them in the same basket.

That said, and as I stated before, there's lot of things to learn form Mario games, but Inafune's statement is just plain silly, and does not recognise wild diversity of what we today call "game".

Is that you, David Cage? 

That's unfair. Holodust's arguments do not reflect the opinions of David Cage (now there's a man who just ended up in the wrong medium somehow)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

HoloDust on 09 October 2013
MDMAlliance said:
HoloDust said:
Incubi said:

Is that you, David Cage? 

No, it's someone that (unlike some other people here) realizes that there are game genres that have nothing in common with some other genres...actually, only thing that makes them both "video games" is method of delivery, i.e. console or computer. Hence, Inafune's statement that you cannot be good "Creator" if you haven't played Mario is not only silly per se (for other reasons I don't even intend to discuss), but completely misguided.


huehuehue, sounds like to me that you can't rather than not wanting to.

Yeah...replies like this (and your previous) are why I usually shy away from any serious discussion around here...now forgive me if I don't reply to you anymore on this matter...



Kasz216 on 09 October 2013
HoloDust said:
Incubi said:
HoloDust said:

 

 



No, it's someone that (unlike some other people here) realizes that there are game genres that have nothing in common with some other genres...actually, only thing that makes them both "video games" is method of delivery, i.e. console or computer. Hence, Inafune's statement that you cannot be good "Creator" if you haven't played Mario is not only silly per se (for other reasons I don't even intend to discuss), but completely misguided.


A.  He didn't say that.  He said "probably".

B.  What he did say... your favorite developers likely agree with.  (Probably even including David Cage).  Seriously, if you read up on actual game design, it's a very mundane comment.

 

C.  This actually explains the tutorial concept pretty well. 

http://www.1up.com/features/learning-level-design-mario

 

If you can't see how that isn't applicable to all forms of game design...  I mean.  You just can't.  You have to see it.  It just shows the baseline best way to do a tutorial in the best way possible for pretty much any game.   Show as much as you can, and only tell when you can't show.

 



HoloDust on 09 October 2013
ListerOfSmeg said:
HoloDust said:

No, it's someone that (unlike some other people here) realizes that there are game genres that have nothing in common with some other genres...actually, only thing that makes them both "video games" is method of delivery, i.e. console or computer. Hence, Inafune's statement that you cannot be good "Creator" if you haven't played Mario is not only silly per se (for other reasons I don't even intend to discuss), but completely misguided.

Sad you let your hate for Mario blind you to whats actually being said.

Engaging the player is a part of any game regardless of genre.

Teaching the gamer how to play is also a part of any game design regardless of genre.

Doing those 2 things is something Mario excels at. Its not about the genre of the game at all. I dont see how you cant see that but its your loss for not being open minded

Funny you say that, I was just playing Mario 64 today with my kid (his attention span is half an hour, so we switch between Banjo and that)...so forgive me if I don't answer to you too any further on this matter.



HoloDust on 09 October 2013
Mr Khan said:
Incubi said:

Is that you, David Cage? 

That's unfair. Holodust's arguments do not reflect the opinions of David Cage (now there's a man who just ended up in the wrong medium somehow)

For me, Omikron is really good game, in "classic" meaning (in lack of better word), far ahead of its time...pitty he haven't sticked with that.

Oh and thanks for some of that "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." ;)