Lol, you need to think that about ram to be consistant. However you are in the minority. Most people accept this gen needs higher ram. As for me being defeated? Lol its your side still clinging to the idea that he said it was anticonsumer. I at least can grasp what the op said. As for deflecting? No, its bringing up a glaring flaw in your argument. The bluray analogy was the most idiotic thing to come out of this thread

Those parts were actually a very small part of thr ps3  package. I spent far more dollars on my xbox than i ever did my ps3. Blu ray hiked up the price of the ps3 but it was a needed part of the ps3  and had a value so you could play larger games and larger discs with films and entertainment. MS launched before them so they knew nothing of what sony had up their sleeve in tech. When sony brought out the blu ray ms got hd dvd involved to try and snuff out blu ray. It was secondary as a format not primary. It failed along with hd dvd and ms felt no shame about it. Again, blu ray wasnt forced upon us. In fact a lot of peoplr bought ps3 consoles because they were the most affordable blu ray players on the market.

Well it's anti some consumers, basically fans of Xbox exclusives that don't want Kinect. But anti-consumer in general? No, because there are other choices (and PS4 is reaping the benefits of this decision).

I agree that even if they put 16gb of ram, it wouldn't hurt( more ram is always better at some point).  The whole argument in this thread was predicated on whether an item added to any console is needed vs. what is nice to have for any particular persons interest.  You see, I don't have a "side", as I plan to have both consoles.  I can recognize that both companies put the components into their system to not only sell games, but to bring other capabilities to their console for other agendas.  They aren't doing it because it is in the consumers best interest.  Every single thing that goes into these consoles is in the best interest of the company making it.  As an example, whether they include an HDMI cable or not has nothing to do with the consumer, it has to do with price.  There is no winning this argument, as you have a different point to make than anyone else arguing with you.   You continue to rationalize that we think that Sony is anti consumer, when we ae only saying that if the Kinect is anti-consumer then so is the Bluray drive when the PS3 came out.  I don't think either company is truly anti consumer.  They are both Pro company.

Not the point I was trying to make. I my PS3 and 360 sit a couple of feet from my router.  People were saying that i needed a $100 router to match the PS3. Personally, i didn't.  I was glad to have the option of not having a router forced upon me.  My PS3 had abuilt in wi fi router.  Never used it.  All of my consoles were wired.  I'm not discussing what's an integral part of the experience. I'm talking about being forced to buy something with one console that's optional with another.

By side I mean "blu-ray is equivalant to Kinect" in this thread. This isn't a MS vs Sony thread and I wouldn't make it into one. But people who are comparing blu-ray and Kinect are doing so because the thread title mislead them 2 times which makes their argument invalid. First time they were mislead was when it said Sony said it was anti-consumer. They didn't. The second time they got mislead is when it made it seem like sony was refrencing to the Kinect. They werent. However, if we are to assume that those two things were the case they would still be wrong. It would be like saying "Wireless controllers are anti-consumer because wired worked just fine" and many other example similar to that. But those arguments are just asinine. Updating specs in hardware is what creates next gen systems. By this type of argument's logic the market would remain stagnant because the previous way worked just as fine. Its called natural progression. The Ps3 needed a disc drive. No one would argue this. Due to natural progression (similar to wireless controllers, faster CPU/GPU and more RAM) Sony implemented a blu-ray drive.

When did the MS router come out, like what four years after the PS3 came out with a router in the box? The Xbox 360 was never meant to have Wifi. I heard people were using wifi dongles and stuff with the PS3 way before MS put those things ojn the market. Sony always thinks of hardware first. MS thinks of online first. When it comes to hardware MS is out of their element, which is why they always try to catch up with Sony. Sony element is not online, but they are learning, which is what they learn from MS. If Sony was ever to have an advantage it would always be hardware and format. I doubt rechargable batteries were on the market at launch for the 360 as well. It was only after Sony already had these things stock that MS started to respond.

Fist of all i just pointed stuff that the camera does that the ps4 camera does not this was just to prove that porting to the ps4 camera will have compromises,i also said that the kinect would have cost 300 since the windows version is being sold at that price i also stated facts not possibilities or "this is also possible if" scenarios.

Reading heartbeat from a camera is easy? Didnt know that..I tought that you actually needed alot of technology to do that then i guess the kinect will just be more accurate at that feature.

The ps4´s is being supported by a fair share of devs clearly not the most important ones i should also say that kinect tools for development are a big part of the devkits that MS is puting in the hands of indies.

But most of the things you pointed out the PS4 camera can do just fine. Your cost calculation is just horribly inaccurate. The windows version(unless I'm thinking of a different sku) includes a bunch of dev tools and I believe two kinects.

Kinect's heart beat sensor will work more often than the PS4 equivalent due to lighting conditions, but it shouldn't be more accurate. The software to do this is just measuring micro changes in pixel color. Here's a video about it.

Also how do you know what Microsoft is doing as far as dev kits? Again though this really shouldn't be Kinect verse PS4 camera, it should be pack in verse no pack in.

As far as dev kits they have said that their indie program will include all the tools for cloud,kinect xbox one development.

To be honest you are not giving me any choice but to compare both cameras  if its IN the games developed for it will according to you be easily ported so i am saying that porting will be an issue due to the ps4 camera being worst, the things that i pointed out that the ps4 camera can do just fine have not been announced by sony probably to avoid those *tiny letter*in the screen saying "items sold separetly".

The heartbeat in ps4 camera when it comes to horror games would be severely compromissed since no one wants to play dead space 4 in a well lit room.