@naznatips, YOU are cherry picking CASUAL games. Games like Mario, brain training, pokemons, nintendo dogs are all Casual stuff.

The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass and Final Fantasy III DS - the only not casual games from your list.

I'm in the same boat, I don't mind supporting the PSP, lord knows theres plenty I want on it, but just the other day I saw the imported version of Guitaroo man (I can't find the English version near me) for $49 bucks -_-; My waiting list is fairly extensive :( I just won't pay full price >

Mario is pretty casual , just like Loco Roco ... and the truth is that not many hardcore games sell on the DS . Mortal Kombat 3 on the DS sold less than 20k , while Mortal Kombat on the PSP sold 600k ... thats a huge difference . Still , the fact remains , the DS overall has much batter software sales ( 300 million vs. 100 million last time I heard ) .

hunter_alien said: Mario is pretty casual , just like Loco Roco ... and the truth is that not many hardcore games sell on the DS . Mortal Kombat 3 on the DS sold less than 20k , while Mortal Kombat on the PSP sold 600k ... thats a huge difference . Still , the fact remains , the DS overall has much batter software sales ( 300 million vs. 100 million last time I heard ) .

I honestly think that the "Hard-Core" and "Casual" debates are moronic because few people will agree on what makes one game "Hard-Core" and another game "Casual" ...

A better way to look at it would be how "Conventional" games were selling on the Nintendo DS in relation to how "Conventional" games have sold on the GBA. Without doing an indepth analysis I can't say for sure, but I see little evidence that the Nintendo DS's success with "Unconventional" games like Nintendogs, Brain Training, and Animal Crossing has had any negative impact on how "Conventional" games like Final Fantasy 3, Pokemon or Mario have sold.

The PSP's poor software sales are partially caused because most of its high quality big name games are games in genres and series that have always performed poorly on handheld devices. Sony's mistake with the PSP in my opinion was it ignored the market that existed and built a device for a market they wanted to exist. My sister is very representative of a lot of handheld gamers I have known and she moved into handheld gaming in the mid 90s because she (REALLY) disliked the change from 2D games to 3D games (in particular "cinematic" experiences); Sony should have looked at gamers like her and produced games that appealed to her rather than producing the types of games that console gamers like. Needless to say my Sister plays a lot of "Conventional" and "Unconventional" games on her DS inspite of the fact that she was really impressed with the screen and form factor of the PSP when it was first released ...

Meh, I'll let others deal with this.  I'm tired of arguing.

Luppien said: @fishyjoe Not that i aprove of software piracy but in some countrys(like mine) its perfectly legal to share like the user above said. you wont get in jail or get any trouble for it. its only illegal to spread the software here but you can download it allyou want.

 Where do you live?

I am almost certain that its like a lot of countries where it is illegal to download pirated software\music but there is absolutley no enforcement of the issue.

@Crazzy.

2		Pokemon Diamond / Pearl (delete)		Nintendo	20,079	7.97	13.65m
3		New Super Mario Bros (delete)		Nintendo	14,287	8.09	13.16m
6		Mario Kart DS (delete)		Nintendo	8,487	7.90	9.45m
8		Super Mario 64 DS (delete)		Nintendo	3,442	7.85	5.68m
10		The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass (delete)		Nintendo	20,703	8.03	3.52m
12		Pokemon Mysterious Dungeon: Blue Rescue Team (delete)		Nintendo	873	7.80	3.10m
14		Yoshi Island DS (delete)		Nintendo	2,391	7.87	2.80m
15		Pokemon Ranger (delete)		Nintendo	997	6.11	2.40m
19		Sonic Rush (delete)		Sega	2,135	7.56	2.13m
20		Final Fantasy III DS (delete)		Square Enix	2,412	7.62	1.96m
22		Kirby Squeak Squad (delete)		Nintendo	1,227	7.15	1.87m
23		Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker (delete)		Square Enix	2,456	7.53	1.77m
25		Mario Hoops 3 On 3 (delete)		Nintendo	1,013	5.86	1.70m
27		Mario & Luigi 2: Partners in Time (delete)		Nintendo	1,193	7.33	1.49m
30		Pokemon Mysterious Dungeon 2: Time / Darkness Exploration Team (delete)		N/A	3,766	7.85	1.40m

 Removing all games that could be construed as casual and leaving only RPGs\platformers\dungeon crawlers\racers\sports games and these titles have still sold over 2.5x the amount that all the PSP million sellers put together sell. 

 

In any case, I think the PSP is never going to gain a huge base of games simply because third parties will see that software is not selling and thus will not make games for it. The amount of piracy that goes on with the PSP is simply astounding and I feel that really hurts it. 

HappySqurriel said: hunter_alien said: Mario is pretty casual , just like Loco Roco ... and the truth is that not many hardcore games sell on the DS . Mortal Kombat 3 on the DS sold less than 20k , while Mortal Kombat on the PSP sold 600k ... thats a huge difference . Still , the fact remains , the DS overall has much batter software sales ( 300 million vs. 100 million last time I heard ) . I honestly think that the "Hard-Core" and "Casual" debates are moronic because few people will agree on what makes one game "Hard-Core" and another game "Casual" ... A better way to look at it would be how "Conventional" games were selling on the Nintendo DS in relation to how "Conventional" games have sold on the GBA. Without doing an indepth analysis I can't say for sure, but I see little evidence that the Nintendo DS's success with "Unconventional" games like Nintendogs, Brain Training, and Animal Crossing has had any negative impact on how "Conventional" games like Final Fantasy 3, Pokemon or Mario have sold. The PSP's poor software sales are partially caused because most of its high quality big name games are games in genres and series that have always performed poorly on handheld devices. Sony's mistake with the PSP in my opinion was it ignored the market that existed and built a device for a market they wanted to exist. My sister is very representative of a lot of handheld gamers I have known and she moved into handheld gaming in the mid 90s because she (REALLY) disliked the change from 2D games to 3D games (in particular "cinematic" experiences); Sony should have looked at gamers like her and produced games that appealed to her rather than producing the types of games that console gamers like. Needless to say my Sister plays a lot of "Conventional" and "Unconventional" games on her DS inspite of the fact that she was really impressed with the screen and form factor of the PSP when it was first released ...

 Well usually when I say something is hardcore , I really think of a hard game . Maybe its just me , but NSMB or Mario Kart where IMO way to easy to finish ... shure , you could unlock tons of stuff , but its not the same . In the same time look at Dementium : The Ward , its and M rated horror survival , that again sold extremly poorly on the DS , and Im more than shure that it would have sold at least as much on the PSP if not more .  Still ,  I have to agree with the second part of your argue ... the PSP was taken as a console , and for a handheld , that is not the best aproach . The DS has tons of great hardcore games , unfortunatly they dont sell as well as they should IMO ( not that the PSP games would on the other hand ) .  Seriously , Im sad that this thread turned into a PSP vs. DS battle , because thats not really what I intended :(  

 

Well yeah , Madden is pretty popular in the US , ad it fits well the PSP :)

I don't think the PSP will be able to sell larger amounts of software until the price of games is lowered and Sony does something about the piracy. IMO the reason that games like COD4, COD5 and Assassin's Creed are on/going to be on the DS but not the PSP is because the developers are worried about the amount of piracy that happens on the PSP.

CrazzyMan said: @naznatips, YOU are cherry picking CASUAL games. Games like Mario, brain training, pokemons, nintendo dogs are all Casual stuff. The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass and Final Fantasy III DS - the only not casual games from your list.

 mario and pokemon are def not casual

There are millions of hardcore mario and pokemon fans out there!