| deskpro2k3 said: A game optimized to run on PS4 could very well run laps around a PC costing $399. I think its true unless I'm mistaken. |
You are not mistaken 
| deskpro2k3 said: A game optimized to run on PS4 could very well run laps around a PC costing $399. I think its true unless I'm mistaken. |
You are not mistaken 
ethomaz said:
It's more like a $999 PC to run a game like it is on PS4. But after some years (four, five, I don't know) a $399 PC will outperform the PS4 for sure. |
I think it'll be quicker this gen. In terms of CPUs budget PCs are already ahead and come next GPU gen the cost of current decent gen cards like the 7870 will drop. Then there is always the potential for overclocking that you don't get on consoles.
| ethomaz said: You are not reading everything... "The developers really have a chance to study that architecture because it doesn’t change for many years. They can learn its secrets and get progressively better performance out of it. Consoles also provide a stable platform." That's how the hardware grow for developers. Fixed and stable plataform will be easy and better to developers than PC... sorry but you can change that... you are just making mistake with a better plataform for games development (PS4) with more powerful plataform (PC). |
I am reading everything, I'm nitpicking the quotes and finding the flaws in them.
Seriously, tomorrow if he said the PS4 provides "Super computing levels of performance" much akin to what Microsoft did, people would beleive it, much like with the PS3.
The PC is a stable platform, sure the hardware isn't fixed, but that's not a consequence anyway when PC developers don't (And would be silly to) make the games directly to the metal, developers used to do that on the PC remember and it wasn't pretty. (I.E. Only certain GPU's and Soundcards were supported.)
| ethomaz said: Fixed and stable plataform will be easy and better to developers than PC... sorry but you can change that... you are just making mistake with a better plataform for games development (PS4) with more powerful plataform (PC). And now (PS4) everything that exists for PC (tools, whitepapers, documentations, APIs, etc) can be used with the advantage of a fixed and optimized hardware for games. |
Nope, not all the tools and API's that are available on the PC will *ever* be available on the PS4, the fact you think otherwise is incredibly amusing, some of it is Microsoft patented technology, so you do the math.
| ethomaz said: Basic features? Everything that exists in PC architecture for games exists in PS4 with the advantage of fixed, stable and optimized hardware for games... plus the enhancements that didn't exists in PC yet. PS4 is the most advanced PC architecture for games created for now... PC needs at least a new generation of graphic cards to match or surpass it. And again... it's not who is more powerful... PC of course. A comparison... the GTX 580 is more powerful than GTX 660 but the GTX 660 is more advanced in archicture terms than GTX 580... understood now? |
You should really check the features that AMD introduced in the Bonaire XT core that are not available on the PS4, allot of them assist with games development, plus you can't discount all the gear nVidia has that isn't going to be available on either consoles.
And, Haswell brought with it a bunch of improvements too.
As for the Geforce 580 vs Geforce 660, depending on what you are looking for, the Fermi architecture would be superior compared to Kepler as it has superior FP64 instruction support and performance. :P

www.youtube.com/@Pemalite
Pemalite said:
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How many people can afford 4k TV's today? How many people can affoord an 1000$ console that does 4k gaming? Do you know how much time its needed for doing 4k games? Also the prices of the games needs to be increased by atleast 20% and the games needs to sell well otherwise the developers will be brankrupt.
Be reliastic and sensible, you might have money for purchasing 4k TV and 1000$ gaming console if its made, but almost 70% of the people in the world can't and won't. A product has to reach lot of consumers so everybody can experience the technology and manufacturers/developers can be successful.
And cerny said that the hardware will have to grow over time and its not meant physically but internally in power/optimizatons to get most out of the hardware. Consoles utilize the hardware in very optimzed way because they focus on one thing unlike PC where are thousands of setups to consider and drivers needs to be optimized still we have crashes/bugs in the PC games.
You should not lauch at Cerney and you should laugh yourself, because cerney is the genious about games which he's been doing with passion for almost 30 years so he knows a lot about that and i'm sure he won't lie.
Sorry if I offended you, i just wanted to you realize the fact and should not think we know everything especially with respect to cerney as he knows about games than everybody else.
So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.
PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.
Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.
Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.
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Pemalite said: I am reading everything, I'm nitpicking the quotes and finding the flaws in them. |
PC is not a stable platform and it won't be ever... you need always fix something in the PC (or format like "casual" uses pay to do)... you have errors messages everything with drivers issues and games not running like they are supposed to run.
And fixed hardware, close to metal is better for developers than what PC have... there are advantages and disadvantages in both sides but in a developer point the first is better.
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Pemalite said: Nope, not all the tools and API's that are available on the PC will *ever* be available on the PS4, the fact you think otherwise is incredibly amusing, some of it is Microsoft patented technology, so you do the math. |
You can uses everything for game development that exists on PC to PS4... you can even make a game using MS Visual Studio with DirectX (any DirectX version to date) to run on PS4.
Any PC game is supose to run on PS4 without major changes... in fact the changes is more to optimize the game for run better in PS4 than to make the game run on it.
So you can uses almost all Windows, Unix (Linux and BSD * BSD means Mac OS too *), etc tools, APIs, etc created for x86_64 and compatible with AMD GPUs on PS4.
In fact you can developer the game on PC using what you want and run on PS4
.
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Pemalite said: You should really check the features that AMD introduced in the Bonaire XT core that are not available on the PS4, allot of them assist with games development, plus you can't discount all the gear nVidia has that isn't going to be available on either consoles. |
Bonaire is the GCN 1.0 with some new microarchitecture implements.
+ HSA (PS4 have it... the Unified Memory is HSA)
+ ACEs / Queues (PS4 have even more... we are talking about GCN 2.0 in PS4 here 8:8 instead 2:2)
+ New version of PowerTune (I think the PS4 power manegement is even better than PowerTune... thanks fixed hardware)
From AnandTech "There are no notable changes in shader/CU efficiency, ROP efficiency, graphics features, etc. Unless you’re writing compute code for AMD GPUs, from what we know about this microarchitecture it’s likely you’d never notice a difference."
The part of compute code is about the ACEs / Queues that AMD improved in a new leval in PS4 far better than Bonaire.
Even AMD calling Bonaire a Sea Islands... the AnandTech that will use for referece in future articles GCN 1.0 and GCN 1.1 due these minors changes.
Fermi is not suprerior in F64 than Kepler... nVidia just limited this feature in the PC games based chip models... the Tesla based in Kepler is more powerful in F64 than Fermi (the Titan GPU and new GTX 700 are based in that Kepler).
BasilZero said:
Hmm speaking of which a bit off topic - I wonder if the next gen systems or any system after it will be able to take in mods like on PC on the games n_n. |
Can PC gets exclusive games created by the top develpers from the console Like naughty dog, santa monica, media molucules, quantic dreams etc.,?
I rather take exclusive games made by many great developers than modes in PC games which is only to have fun/high details and waste time instead of experience the game in different gameplays.
Also i don't want to waste my money in system upgrades every year, so I willing to support the developers of the games in consoles who are really working hard for giving great experiences. Always gamplay/story is more important than game graphics.
So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.
PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.
Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.
Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.
BasilZero said:
OH YA!? Free Multiplayer on PC women! l0l No worries, which is why I buy Playstation/Nintendo systems just for exclusives ;p while I save monies buying third party games for cheap on PC ;p. Edit: Actually technically one can get exclusive games by made those developers but through emulation n__n but that is a dirty tactic ;p. |
you can't get games made for PS3/PS4 on PC in another 10 years through emulators even we're unable to emulate PSP very well so far and I that doubt PS3 will never be emulated.
If you really want to get great games coming then you have to support the developers in Consoles because PC sales aren't going to save them and its just only some extra cash that they're getting. Look at the sales of the recent games bioshockt infinite and Tomb raider then compare it with Last of US sales in PS3, you see PC is not helping developers much and its just an small addition.
If you like a game then buy it at the full price, if you can't afford then look for second hand game otherwise wait for 3-6 months and you'll get at resonable price but don't go with PC because its the platform with piracy and less sales always.
So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.
PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.
Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.
Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.
Subie_Greg said:
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I was looking to spend 800 on a pc that performs on par with a ps4. Ps4 is the better deal by a long shot.
Mmmfishtacos said:
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If you spend that 800 on a PC now then it will be outdated within two years beacuse the games that come to PC aren't optmized to run and its not based on your hardware so you can't play those games very well. But, 400$ PS4 can serve you atleast 5 years and also you can't get PS4 like PC at all since there is no way we can get GDDR5 unified pool in PC in very near future, meanwhile by then we might be getting PS5.
So, Feel Emotions, Experience Adventure/Action, Challenge Game, Solve puzzles and Have fun.
PlayStation is about all-round "New experiences" using new IP's to provide great diversity for everyone.
Xbox is always about Online and Shooting.
Nintendo is always about Fun games and milking IP's.
I see a lot of guys here talking about PC vs consoles 
Both platforms have advantages and disadvantages... pros and cons.
Cerny is talking about the cons/advantages of PS4 over PC for developers... that's the main point of the interview.