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Forums - General - Will robots ever deserve rights?

 

Answer the Damn Question!

Yes 32 41.03%
 
No 46 58.97%
 
Total:78
Jay520 said:
Veracity said:

1. You miss the point that programming a directive is not the same thing as a rationalization.

2. you can simulate thought, but you cannot create it.

3. You can teach a computer what emotions are and a computer can simulate the emotion, but it will never truly emote. The same goes for conscious. 

4. Id rather not go into proving humans have conscious. That is a settled dispute.

5. You don't need to speak to have conscious. You say low awareness not NO awareness so you answer your own question.

1. A few definitions.

 

  • Rationalize: to employ reason; think in a rational or rationalistic manner. 
  • Rational: agreeable to reasonreasonable; sensible
  • Reason: to form conclusions, judgments, or inferences from facts or premises.

 

Please explain how programming would be incapable of any of these.

2. Definition of think: to have a conscious mind, to some extent of reasoning, remembering experiences, making rationaldecisions, etc.

We are still debating "to have a conscious mind". But the other criteria can all be performed by a robot.

3. Are emotions required for consciousness? Even if they are, what proof do you have that otherr humans have emotions that cannot be applied to robots?

4. Oh really? Educate me.

5. This was in response to your earlier statement, where you said "Because every human, when presented with the question of "do you exist" responds in the same affirmative manner." to prove that other humans have consciousness. I have refuted this because some humans have consciousness, yet lack the ability to respond to the question "do you exist?" I'm speaking about severely mentally handicapped people here.

1. That was intended to be a reply to your statement about computers being able to respond yes to the question do you exist. I'm fully aware that computers are able to rationalize.

2. I would argue conscious is inherent to biological entities.it can't be artificially manufactured.

3. It's common knwledge that humans have emotions. We can measure them with neurology.

4. As defined by you, it's simply self awareness. Even severely retarded people are qualified in this regard.

5. Yes I realize you didn't like that example. I don't care too much about it. We can throw it out. Examples are numerous. 



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Some misconceptions are present here. People claim that computers cannot have consciousness, because they only do what the program says they should do. You forget that basically humans (and animals and plants) are organic robots/computers. We do what we are programmed to do. Yes, our program is more evolved than that of current computers, but it is basically a program. Nobody created it though, it was created over billions of years in the process of evolution. We can simulate evolution (lookup http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_algorithm ), so I'm pretty confident that at least is an angle we can produce AIs with consciousness. Also super-computers are built to simulate the brain of a cat and mice, these will help to understand better how the brain works (we know not much about that) and that would in the long term help to produce AI.

But I also think, it will take a long time. I think at least 50 more years, before we see the first AI. Reason is, that human brains have way more capacity than computers. As said before, we are currently on the task to simulate a cat-brain, that is some steps away from human brain. And they need a super-computer for that. We are currently not able to produce electronics, that is as effective as neurons. That's why we need a big room full of electronics to simulate the brain of a cat. So, it will take time before we really need to discuss the ethics of intelligent machines.

For that matter: I think we extend another time the Golden rule. The golden rule is basically: don't do anything to others, what you don't want others do to you. There are variations on that, but that's it basically. The point is, the range of included beings increased over time. Back in the old days, in the golden rule wasn't included women, foreigners or people with a different skin color. But there is another point to the golden rule: you accept it for others, but you want the others to accept the golden rule too. So the declaration of robot-rights has to go in line with the robots accepting human rights.



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SvennoJ said:
Yes.

Fetus's have rights, animal species have rights, frozen piece of rock has rights (Antartica), robots will get rights too.

Sentient computer programs won't begin with robots though. And why assume that robots will have individual minds, a hive mind scenario might be more plausible. Humans never had the benefit of always online, with robots that will be natural. So will skynet get rights?

We can already make programs that can learn.
http://venturebeat.com/2012/12/18/numenta-grok/
http://www.technologyreview.com/featuredstory/513696/deep-learning/
A sentient program will first be made using the cloud.

That's the thing, the moment robots may deserve rights, they won't need them any more. We will be lucky if they think that we deserve rights



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

darkknightkryta said:

Moriarty, a holodeck creation pleading for his existence.



SvennoJ said:
darkknightkryta said:

Moriarty, a holodeck creation pleading for his existence.

This was an extremely well written show.



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Veracity said:

1. That was intended to be a reply to your statement about computers being able to respond yes to the question do you exist. I'm fully aware that computers are able to rationalize.

2. I would argue conscious is inherent to biological entities.it can't be artificially manufactured.

3. It's common knwledge that humans have emotions. We can measure them with neurology.

4. As defined by you, it's simply self awareness. Even severely retarded people are qualified in this regard.

5. Yes I realize you didn't like that example. I don't care too much about it. We can throw it out. Examples are numerous. 


1. Good

2. I know. That's the point of this entire discussion!

3. I could use that logic and say "It's common knowledge that robots have emotions. We can measure them with coding." What makes a biological brain more conscious than a electrical one?

4. Depending on your definition, even robots today can be self-aware. They can know their position in relation to their environment, the status of their internal systems, a memory of past experiences, etc. What are the criteria for self-awareness?

5. Okay.

- -

This entire discussion can be essentially covered by you giving me the criteria for consciousness and explaining why it wouldn't apply to a highly advanced robot.