By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo - The Wii U's Third-Party Concerns Are Brushed Off By 3DS

happydolphin on 03 July 2013
RolStoppable said:

Okay, let me explain some important differences between the 3DS and Wii U.

1) The 3DS was never in such a dire state as the Wii U. Even at its low point, the 3DS was still selling three times better than the Wii U.

2) The 3DS never really had to worry about serious competition. The only time I thought the Vita could be competitive (at least in Japan) was right after E3 2011, because Nintendo still hadn't announced NSMB2 and was still banking more on stereoscopic 3D than actual games to sell the system. But in the six months between E3 2011 and the Vita launch several crucial things happened. Nintendo announced a major price cut for the 3DS and secured Monster Hunter exclusivity; Sony revealed that they were going to use expensive proprietary memory cards. At that point the Vita was significantly more expensive and had no system seller to speak of. Not to mention that third parties on the whole don't care much about handhelds, so first party software is of much higher importance overall. That's an obvious advantage for Nintendo. All this is a lot different in the home console market, so the Wii U is once again in a much tougher spot than the 3DS.

3) The Capcom support for the 3DS is a product of Nintendo offering strong incentives to Capcom. It isn't unlike Sonic Lost Worlds being exclusive to Wii U. That's always an option for Nintendo as long as any given third party is willing to enter such a partnership, but this has nothing to do with Nintendo building an installed base through first party software and attracting voluntary third party support.

4) Etrian Odyssey is an IP that is locked to Nintendo handhelds, because they are the only machines that can run the game conveniently. But yes, an argument can be made that new installments (or in the most recent case, a remake) wouldn't happen, if Nintendo didn't build an installed base. Shin Megami Tensei IV is a much better example though. On the same note, many publishers besides Atlus are bringing their games to the 3DS. This isn't really any different to how things went down on the DS. But all this leads into the point that will break the Wii U...

5) Third parties don't want to develop for Nintendo home consoles, especially not Japanese ones. You should know how things played out on the Wii, but let's refresh our memories on what Nintendo's installed base was in Japan. Let's see if the theory that third parties will bring the games if Nintendo drives up the installed base holds water.

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2007/Japan/

So by the end of 2007, we have:

Wii: 4.6m
PS3: 1.7m
360: 0.5m

That's roughly 70% market share for Nintendo. The results speak for themselves.

1. The games are pricier and the console is pricier than the 3DS. The U will only sell when the games are there because currently the combination of price and library is deadly (as in bad). Once it's fixed the rebound will be steep.

2. Neither does the U. Nintendo doesn't compete with the other two in the home console space unless they suck so much that they lose the mainstream (PS1, PS2 style). That won't happen because they are already releasing games that ensure it won't happen. Much of your points are true, but it doesn't change the fact that with all those points, Nintendo is not competing against the other two. So the vita relatively is very weak compared to the 3DS which won't happen with the U due to your arguments, but it doesn't mean that the U will suffer.

3. I don't believe that is true. Nintendo mentioned sometime ago that 3rd parties were asking them to improve the install base so they could have more confidence to make their games for the 3DS. I believe RE:Mercenaries was the test for Capcom and then RE:R became a certainty after Nintendo revitalised sales. That was my recollection of it.

4. This is in my favor really. A good install base secured by Nintendo leads to the GB/GBA/NDS/3DS phenomenon of robust 3rd party support.

5. I'm not sure what makes you think that JP companies don't want to develop for Nintendo consoles. They don't want to develop your average blockbuster, but I can't stress this enough: those aren't the games Nintendo needs...

6. The Wii didn't lead by example and also came at the wake of the PS2. This is a very different situation.



Around the Network
Zero999 on 03 July 2013
oniyide said:
Zero999 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
MohammadBadir said:
COKTOE said:
The Wii-U is so dead in so many ways, Itchy and Scratchy called it for some fresh death ideas to use in their next skit. It's so dead, it makes Kenny from South Park blush like a school girl. The nearly 7 year old PS3 outsold it almost 6-1 last week. AGAIN. Yeah, things are looking great for the Wii-U. It's getting outsold by EVERYTHING, and there is no way the small, uninspired Wii-U holiday line-up is going to pull it out of it's death spiral into commercial irrelevance. Of course, the PS4/Xbox One launches only compound the Wii-U's problems. Sorry.


remember when the PS3 was dead in 2006?

Remember when the PS3 was selling 60k a week in June 2006 at $599 while Wii-U is selling just over 20k at half the price?

it was $499 but again an irrelevant example from you. I'll say it again: wii u sales right now are no parameter for future sales. only when it get's the big titles later this year is when we can check the sales.


wait...why is it irrelevant. Sure anything could happen, but the example he used was to show that even at that steep price, almost 3 times as much people were interested in PS3 at the same time frame than they are Wii U. Again anything could happen, but that is NOT good news for WIi U right now.

2006 was a different time and I'm sure ps3's sales drought was at least a little better than wii u's. again, the only thing that matters is how wii u will sell after the games start releasing (august and onwards).



Zero999 on 03 July 2013
oniyide said:
how much are people expecting for Wii U to do this holiday if it DOESNT get a price cut? 60k? 80k? a week. Im thinking maybe 50-60

are you serious? a nintendo machine with many releases, especially a new 3d mario will sell far more than that. November and december combined should be in the range of 4-5M.



Zero999 on 03 July 2013
COKTOE said:
Whoops. Just for accuracy's sake, the PS3 actually outsold the Wii-U by MORE than 6-1 last week. And just to get one more idea across, a new Donkey Kong paired with an old Zelda will not f***ing change anything for the Wii-U. I bet, just on the strength of GTA5, the ancient PS3 and 360 will see a hardware bump this fall that will be more significant than any bump the Wii-U gets for the rest of 2013.

ps360 hardware sales will only be affected by time of the year and other consoles from now on. the only people still buying them are late adopters so even a big title like gta won't affect hardware sales. those that will be buying any of those systems would do it regardless of game releases.



Zero999 on 03 July 2013
RolStoppable said:
happydolphin said:

That is truly the only concern. However in the past Nintendo did not do a good job at leading by example. With the U, Nintendo is pumping out games quickly with high entertainment value, much like they are doing for the 3DS, and games of very similar type of content. The only risk is that 3rd parties don't get the cue, but I really doubt Capcom and Atlus won't.

But like you say we've seen it in the past, with its reasons, so the risk exists. I give it a 50-50 chance of likelihood, due to the WiiU's mixed direction at launch. So long as Nintendo continues to drive entertainment first for the birthing years of the console, that risk should be quelled. *fingers crossed*

They can always drive higher-production games when they've secured a proper install base for themselves and for 3rd parties. All in its time.

Wait, what? The Wii U made even the N64 look good.

I don't know why you put faith in Capcom and Atlus, it's not like they were big supporters of the Wii. Sure, they restrained from flooding that system with garbage, but that still isn't a level of support that should make anyone confident about the future.

Here's a rough idea of what third parties thought about the Wii U before the system launched:

 

The fate of the Wii U in terms of third party support was sealed long before its sales dropped off a cliff.

don't know about atlus but capcom released a couple of great exclusive titles on wii. and about the chart, stop believing third party multiplatform is set in stone when a system launches. If wii u sells the multi's will come. and many of those aren't on ps4/xone either.



Around the Network
oniyide on 03 July 2013
Cold-Flipper said:
oniyide said:
how much are people expecting for Wii U to do this holiday if it DOESNT get a price cut? 60k? 80k? a week. Im thinking maybe 50-60

In November & December? Don't people on this site consider the final 10 weeks to be the Holiday period? If so, that would be between November 2nd & January 4th. 60K...is that honestly your prediction? Not saying it will do gangbusters but that amount makes literally no sense at all. That would mean you expect 600K during the Holiday's. That would be significantly lower than the DS & PSP from last year...plus, the Wii U actually has a solid exclusive lineup:

Months before Holidays: The Wonderful 101 & Pikmin 3

Weeks before Holidays: Zelda TWW HD & Wii Party U

During Holidays: Mario / Sonic Olympics, Sonic Lost World, Wii Fit U, DK Country, Mario 3D World

I'd expect at least 2 out of the 10 weeks to be 300K+ at the very least. That already puts it above your numbers.

 

lt_dan_27 said:

It's a bad argument, you are comparing to markets. That's like comparing the cell phone market to the PC market. They have some similarities, but still work differently. And you can see that no 3rd party definitely isn't good for the wiiU.

I would say they have more in common than a phone & PC. They are both gaming systems after all. I'd say more like a laptop and a tablet.


let me explain myself better. I was talking more once the games start rolling in. right know there isnt going to be anything for the next month. Pikmin 3 comes out in 1 month. Then Rayman the next month and so on. Maybe Zelda HD after and Mario and so on. THese are supposed to be the games that will save Wii U. So from the time Pikmin 3 comes out till Jan. I was wondering what people will expect weekly. I dont think Pikmin3 will do too much for it. It might go up to 30-35k that week. Hell it might even stay there till the Nov Dec months where it might see double that. Thats just what i think. I didnt put multiplats because they wont do much for Ninty and they are still missing some, GTA being the biggest one. Maybe my numbers might be wrong.

edit: my numbers are kinda low, but i dont think it will do 300k any week, thats 3ds numbers. I dont think it will happen. best week 200k. THe games coming this holiday for Wii U are not THAT big. 



Zero999 on 03 July 2013
Gamerace said:
Zero999 said:
AnthonyW86 said:
MohammadBadir said:
COKTOE said:
The Wii-U is so dead in so many ways, Itchy and Scratchy called it for some fresh death ideas to use in their next skit. It's so dead, it makes Kenny from South Park blush like a school girl. The nearly 7 year old PS3 outsold it almost 6-1 last week. AGAIN. Yeah, things are looking great for the Wii-U. It's getting outsold by EVERYTHING, and there is no way the small, uninspired Wii-U holiday line-up is going to pull it out of it's death spiral into commercial irrelevance. Of course, the PS4/Xbox One launches only compound the Wii-U's problems. Sorry.


remember when the PS3 was dead in 2006?

Remember when the PS3 was selling 60k a week in June 2006 at $599 while Wii-U is selling just over 20k at half the price?

it was $499 but again an irrelevant example from you. I'll say it again: wii u sales right now are no parameter for future sales. only when it get's the big titles later this year is when we can check the sales.

Out of sheer morbid curiousity, just what do you except WiiU sales to look like come Nov, Dec and into 2014?

I already made a detailed prediction on another topic but to simplify: I expect wii u to end 2013 with a about of 10.2M total sales with a margin of error of 1M up or down. when november starts I think wii u will be a little more than 5M or pretty close to that.



angelocp on 03 July 2013

wiiu will be fine



eres el unico que puede tomar la desicion que nadie mas puede... la correcta

happydolphin on 03 July 2013
Zero999 said:
Gamerace said:

Out of sheer morbid curiousity, just what do you except WiiU sales to look like come Nov, Dec and into 2014?

I already made a detailed prediction on another topic but to simplify: I expect wii u to end 2013 with a about of 10.2M total sales with a margin of error of 1M up or down. when november starts I think wii u will be a little more than 5M or pretty close to that.

I can see 8M happening. Pikmin 3 will bring the U to 4M by November. Then we'll see the holiday boom, it will be big.



oniyide on 03 July 2013
happydolphin said:
RolStoppable said:

Okay, let me explain some important differences between the 3DS and Wii U.

1) The 3DS was never in such a dire state as the Wii U. Even at its low point, the 3DS was still selling three times better than the Wii U.

2) The 3DS never really had to worry about serious competition. The only time I thought the Vita could be competitive (at least in Japan) was right after E3 2011, because Nintendo still hadn't announced NSMB2 and was still banking more on stereoscopic 3D than actual games to sell the system. But in the six months between E3 2011 and the Vita launch several crucial things happened. Nintendo announced a major price cut for the 3DS and secured Monster Hunter exclusivity; Sony revealed that they were going to use expensive proprietary memory cards. At that point the Vita was significantly more expensive and had no system seller to speak of. Not to mention that third parties on the whole don't care much about handhelds, so first party software is of much higher importance overall. That's an obvious advantage for Nintendo. All this is a lot different in the home console market, so the Wii U is once again in a much tougher spot than the 3DS.

3) The Capcom support for the 3DS is a product of Nintendo offering strong incentives to Capcom. It isn't unlike Sonic Lost Worlds being exclusive to Wii U. That's always an option for Nintendo as long as any given third party is willing to enter such a partnership, but this has nothing to do with Nintendo building an installed base through first party software and attracting voluntary third party support.

4) Etrian Odyssey is an IP that is locked to Nintendo handhelds, because they are the only machines that can run the game conveniently. But yes, an argument can be made that new installments (or in the most recent case, a remake) wouldn't happen, if Nintendo didn't build an installed base. Shin Megami Tensei IV is a much better example though. On the same note, many publishers besides Atlus are bringing their games to the 3DS. This isn't really any different to how things went down on the DS. But all this leads into the point that will break the Wii U...

5) Third parties don't want to develop for Nintendo home consoles, especially not Japanese ones. You should know how things played out on the Wii, but let's refresh our memories on what Nintendo's installed base was in Japan. Let's see if the theory that third parties will bring the games if Nintendo drives up the installed base holds water.

http://www.vgchartz.com/yearly/2007/Japan/

So by the end of 2007, we have:

Wii: 4.6m
PS3: 1.7m
360: 0.5m

That's roughly 70% market share for Nintendo. The results speak for themselves.

1. The games are pricier and the console is pricier than the 3DS. The U will only sell when the games are there because currently the combination of price and library is deadly (as in bad). Once it's fixed the rebound will be steep.

2. Neither does the U. Nintendo doesn't compete with the other two in the home console space unless they suck so much that they lose the mainstream (PS1, PS2 style). That won't happen because they are already releasing games that ensure it won't happen. Much of your points are true, but it doesn't change the fact that with all those points, Nintendo is not competing against the other two. So the vita relatively is very weak compared to the 3DS which won't happen with the U due to your arguments, but it doesn't mean that the U will suffer.

3. I don't believe that is true. Nintendo mentioned sometime ago that 3rd parties were asking them to improve the install base so they could have more confidence to make their games for the 3DS. I believe RE:Mercenaries was the test for Capcom and then RE:R became a certainty after Nintendo revitalised sales. That was my recollection of it.

4. This is in my favor really. A good install base secured by Nintendo leads to the GB/GBA/NDS/3DS phenomenon of robust 3rd party support.

5. I'm not sure what makes you think that JP companies don't want to develop for Nintendo consoles. They don't want to develop your average blockbuster, but I can't stress this enough: those aren't the games Nintendo needs...

6. The Wii didn't lead by example and also came at the wake of the PS2. This is a very different situation.

I think you missed his point, this is all well and good...for the 3ds that doesnt mean jack for the WIi U. where is the stellar support from Capcom for that. All we've seen is, ports of year old games. RE and MH. Thats far from stellar support, and we havent even heard of anything else. Hell its no different from Wii really. We got a rerelease budget RE4(whoopie) a few light gun games, and more ports. MH and Tvs.C was the only real standouts, what Capcom released on the other consoles and hell even the portables was head and shoulders over that.