@Jay520 I could see how someone who says they are an atheist being obsessed with evidence being counter intuitive to the core point of atheism. For sake of argument I'd say if one is constantly looking for evidence or lack thereof to justify a belief system that is leaning towards an agnostic mentality. If one is agnostic then they don't know or "with out knowledge" (gnosko or gnosis - knowledge; a - not/no). Suffice it to say on either side of the spectrum if one has doubts, or requires evidence, then they start leaning towards the neutral position of the spectrum.

-- (negative) - (neutral) + (affirmative) ++
-- atheist - agnostic + theist ++

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@Jay If you were mostly referring to "the rock belief system" pointed out by kyuu (and I think you were) then I completely agree. The previous comments in this post were referring to the second (more interesting to me) point

I'll decide who is bothering me and who isn't.

Thanks for stopping by to respond in such a fullfilling manner.

We are all better people having read another inciteful post. <--- see what I did there? Read it again.

Your reply is sorta of a mix bag for me. As a Christain, I see the world in a radically different way. I believe in never doing any evil what so ever. As an example, I know about a Christian that told a hindu lady that he would rather die starving than steal food because doing the right thing before God was more important than living itself. Strangely, the hindu lady looked at him very awkwardly at him. I thought that instant... if only everyone was like him... that'd be the end of unjustified wars... theft... lying and a whole lot of other evils in an instant.

This is the Christian life and there are MANY posers... that are beginner Christians that are learning the ropes.

I believe that homosexuality is evil. Understand that isaid... homosexuality... not homosexual. Do you see the difference? I'll explain just incase...

A homosexual is a PERSON.

Homosexuality is a concept that a person might practice.

I love the homosexual but absolutely think his/her homosexuality is evil.

I don't hate homosexuals (PEOPLE)... I'm not afraid of homosexuals (PEOPLE) ... but I think homosexualuty (CONCEPT) is absolutely evil.

I just wanted to clear that up.

Alrighty, anyways, I think a lot people stereotype me as hateful when in all honesty I don't have a shred of hate towards homosexual people. Yet, when I say... hi I'm a Christian... people do that. And you know regardless of the past... its still wrong to say that I hate any group of people when I don't. Its just ridiculous and I can't stress it enough how confused it makes me because READ MY WORDS... I DON'T HATE HOMOSEXUALS. And honestly, the liberal left are doing a wonderful job at promoting that, what seems to be ... a hate-charged stereotype towards me, ironically. All that said... I see what your saying and do keep that in mind...

I'm understanidng of what some homosexual people might wrongfully "SEE" me as. So, I see your point.

Calmador, I'm not exactly what you are trying to say - it sounds a bit conflicted.  You can feel about anything you want to feel and your Church can do what it wants.  But if you were to act in a way to hurt others, then yea, you would get called evil.  

But unfortunately many people that call themselves Christians going around trying to bully others, rewrite history, and destroy anyone that they perceive as different from them.  Look at how a few people that called themselves Christians sponsored things like Prop 8 - merely to dissolve the legal definition some marriages, which would deny the legal definition of some families and take away existing civil rights.  Even the US Supreme Court ruled that DOMA was designed to:

"DOMA's unusual deviation from the usual tradition of recognizing and accepting state definitions of marriage here operates to deprive same-sex couples of the benefits and responsibilities that come with the federal recognition of their marriages. This is strong evidence of a law having the purpose and effect of disapproval of that class. The avowed purpose and practical effect of the law here in question are to impose a disadvantage, a separate status and so a stigma upon all who enter into same-sex marriages made lawful by the unquestioned authority of the States."

They like to spin that it is and attack on 'freedom of religion’ but religions are always free in the USA to do what they want.  Some don't marry divorced people, some don't marry people of mixed race, no Church, Rabbit, Priest or similar is going to be forced to marry a gay couple.  Yet a few complain like they are and they go around trying to force their interpretation of religious code into the government.  If you do that, then yea, that is really hateful and you would get called bad things.  (Just like if anyone else was trying to destroy your family - I think you might get mad.)

Even today people are trying to say that the USA is a 'Christian Nation.'  I like to remind them that no, we are not, we were but on July 4th, 1776 we ceded from England and separated the Church from the Government.  The USA is a secular nation with freedom of and from religion.

I just pointed out that many of the people going around calling themselves ‘Christian’ act in a way very different from how Christ acted. I do hope you act  more like the second.

Rather humorous. I wish someone had asked him to explain his reasoning behind hating religion. It appeared to be that plenty of people who were religious (Hitler was the most common example) had committed crimes against humanity; but then he himself later on showed how the exact same thing could be applied to atheism (Joseph Stalin as an example).

I believe his response to his own argument was that while there had been atheists that had done bad things, there had been atheists that did good things as well; which is a statement that can be applied to any religion. Or is he claiming that no religious person has ever been "good?"

It was somewhat of a  rant too.

If someone calling themeselves a Christian hurts people on unjustified reasons (like self-defence) than those actions are clearly not based of God's word.

By the way, when it comes to same-sex marriage, I'm against it. I think that marriage should be defined as between a man and a woman. I thought Prop 8 was okay. It was a legal and justified proposition. The issue is about doing the right thing.

I've heard of people saying that churches will be forced to marry gay people. It might be true, or not. I am interested in finding out what that's about but I think a lot Christians out there are simplying voting thier social values and there's nothing wrong with that. Similair to environmentalists in the green party... people from that party are voting thier social values.

Nobody is forcing anybody. People accuse Christian voters of forcing thier beliefs they are following procedures that everyone uses. The environmentalist believes the envorinment should be a priority and nobody says.. HEY THOSE ENVORINMENTALISTS ARE FORCING THEIR BELIEFS ON US. Yes they have thier beliefs and you know what you do too. So, why does the Christian get labeled as "forcing" people? Because that's just a favorite way to make Christians look bad when they're just fine.

You want to know what forcing beliefs are... go to the middle east and be ready to choose between your life and Islam. Christians forcing people into thier beliefs is unheard of... its an exaggeration. You don't see Christians with guns running around but you do see them in the voting booths, next to the environmentalist, the buddhist, the liberal, the feminist... but nooo only Christians are forcing.. not the others.

I'm trying to open your eyes. Do you see what I mean? Do you see how unfair and wrong that is?

I don't know about the Christian nation thing. Sure, I'd say we are a Christian nation since the vast majority of Americans seem to be Christian. I think we'd have to turn a blind eye not to think of our nation, when it comes to religion, as a Christain nation.

Jesus Christ is actually against homosexuality.

Matthew 19:4-6

Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate

Jesus defines marriage here.

Jesus diciple Paul... the one who was put in charge of the Church after Jesus went back to heaven. Here is what Paul wrote on homosexuality...

Romans 1:24-27

²⁴ Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, ²⁵ who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

²⁶ For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. ²⁷ Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Voting against same-sex marriage are my social values and as a Christian and an American, I know its perfectly okay to do that.

I still do not understand how someone with a basic understand of US History would think it is acceptable to vote on people’s civil rights.  Then the issue of doing it right thing was done when Prop 8 was ruled a direction volition of US Law, and was throwing out by the federal courts.  Your narrow interpretation of Christianity is against how the majority of people in California interpret it.  Also, I think your interpretation of what Christ would say about same sex marriage is incorrect.  I believe completely, as do many people more scholarly than I, that Christ would 120% Support the legalization of Same Sex Marriage.

Furthermore it is wrong to have religion in any way affect the legal system of the USA.  The USA ceased to be a 'Christian Nation' when it declared it's independence from Great Britain on July 4, 1776.  So even if I believe incorrectly as you, that Christianity was against same sex marriage, then it would still have no effect on the US legal system.

If one thinks it is ok for a single narrow minder religion to strip away civil peoples rights then, in my opinion, they are against what the USA stands for, and both freedom from and of religion.

The dangers of mixing religion and government are very apparent in the other areas you sited.  I am still baffled that any person of even a junior high school level of education would think it is tollerable. 

I am glad that we can have this civil conversation.  But it not an easy thing for me to do, I love my country and feel a strong need to protect it from those that would harm it.  I think returning to how we were over 237 years ago would be disastrous.

Its not a right that gays have. Its a right that belongs between non-gay men and women only. Homosexuality is a pyschological disorder, no different from depression. This condition is a sickness not a healthy or normal thing and has little to do with civil rights.

The scholars that you mention either can't read or don't understand what Jesus himself said marriage was which is between a man and a woman, male and female God made us. This is the way God/Jesus clearly described marriage and men and women. The diciples of Chirst easily supports this aswell. Its very easily understood that same-sex marriage, homoxuality... both the action and "lust" are considered sin.

Its not wrong for religion to have influence in the legal system. Its unavoidable since the US protects freedom of religion. We have the freedom to choose a religion and people are going to have one and those people will vote. Think about what I said for a second... I'm sure you can see what I mean.

This isn't about civil rights. Its about social values. There are homosexual people have been cured. There are straight people who used to be homosexuals because of counseling. Does hair color change by talking(counseling) to it? Does skin color change by talking(counseling) to it. Nope, but behavior is changed by counseling. What does this tell you about homosexuality? Its clearly a behavior. This is open in the air... sky is blue... truth. So it all comes down to social values. I value the heath, pyschological state and morality of homosexual people and see them as they are... and they are unhealthy (homosexual acts causes disease), pyschological messed up, (suicide and depression and it isnt because of people who hate homosexuals) and in an immoral state which is has to do with specific beliefs. You might not relate to my beliefs but you sure as heck have to let me vote according my voice and my voice does and always will include my God.

So you stand there and value a condition that causes disease and pyschological problems... that are all deadly.

You need to atleast see that... just because homosexuals feel bad about such policies doesn't mean its bad for them. Its like telling an alchoholic... drinking is bad for you. And then you have drunks protesting for more drinking... like-wise homosexuals are protesting for thier condition. These people need help, not encouragement.

Do you see?

You are so out of touch and misinformed, it's a bit scary, but I support your right to feel any way you want.  But will not allow your misconceptions to effect the civil rights of others.

No, homosexuality is no more a disorder than being female or left handed, some people are just born different.  And that does not give an religion the legal authority to descriminate.

But people who feel the way you do are rare, and growing fewer.  Must be tough to see, how yet another country and state endorces Marriage Equality and Same Sex Marriage.  I hope your faith comforts you that you know it is for the greater good.

People used religion to deny left handed people and woman rights, they were wrong.  I hope you can see that someday.