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Forums - Gaming - Piracy Vs Used

It seems to me that many people have a problem with piracy because it prevents the developers from earning scratch for their titles. However, so do used games. In fact, it seems like when companies try to implement systems that provide revenue streams for devs/publishers in the used game market, there's an uproar (case in point, Xbox One shenanigans).

So, who out there is pro-used games, and anti-piracy. What's your reasoning? And are they contradictory?

My position: I'm for both. I don't believe in intellectual property rights, but I do believe in property rights and contract law. For example, a publisher is well within their rights to sell you game and make you sign a contract stating you won't share it (or, implement DRM to prevent sharing). But the contract is between you and them. If you do share the game, you suffer the consequences, the people you share with made no such agreement with the publisher, they broke no contract.

Exactly the same deal with used.

I do not believe that you have a "moral obligation" to support developers or publishers.



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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]

The difference is NO ONE makes money from privacy at all, at least some kind of income is made from second hand. Although, the developers makes no money here obviously.I still find it wrong that companies want to restrict this, as although it don't go to them. The 2nd hand market makes money and create jobs for the industry, be it the retail part. And once you bought it, the game is your property of which you can do as you want except copy and re-distribute of course.

And yes i'm pro-used games and anti-privacy



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

1)piracy harms developers /publishers as no money is entering the circulation of the gaming market.
Instead of developers some greedy bastards are getting the money now.
In this case the parasite who is destroying the industry get rewarded for being a parasite.

2)used games-are part of the system.Someone buys a new game,resells the game and is using the money to buy a new game.The money is always circulating within this system.

Licensing software is a fabrication of the industry -they invested big money into buying corrupt politicians and make this part of the law.
As there are only few people to be that stupid to acceppt the destruction of property rights most people (until now) are unaware when they buy certain software products that they are just licensing them.The software producers kept quiet about this fact and the buyers nowadays are either unaware of slowly got used to this ripp off and think
that this is alright.But it is not.
You own things you buy:this is how it works.You can resell them,break them,burn them,give them away.The entire system.With Cars,Mobiles,Immobiles,toilet paper(hard to resell when used) etc,etc
I've never heard that car companies tried to forbid reselling cars.They don't dare as they would be instantly lynched.
Even Hollywood isn't trying this,though they sell the same product as the gaming industry(a disc with software entertainment.)
They don't dare as they know 99% of the movie fans would oppose them to the max.
The only genre where you can try this extremly greedy and stupid idea and having a real chance to succeed is:gaming.Don't know why,but many seem to support this ripp of.Strangely many of those guys supporting this shit are living in the USA.The land of the free-but you aren't even free to sell your games?

People were fighting for centuries for property rights,and now many of them don't care,just to please the "poor" gaming industry that has grown several 100% in the past 15 years and is still moaning and complaining.That's pathetic.You can't grow that much that fast and still being poor and complaining.

The corporations are always searching for ways to maximize profits,therefore they always create ideas to make people buy more and pay more.It doesn't matter how much they get-they will more.
Let them forbid used game sale,their next step will be to stop used dvd/blu ray movie sales as soon as they realise that they have created enough fools to get away with this..
Than they will try it with books,flowerpots,animals(yes you can even buy and resell living beings but you can't do that with fu@:ing games?!)
yes ,they should forbid to sell used cars to save the car industry-shouldn't they?

The real perversion here is:playing(gaming is part of it) was and still is about learning for life,about sharing,lending ,social behaviour,buying,selling etc-
and now those masters of perversion come around and tell you:You don't owe that.You can't lent it(just once)
you need this(cam),this(drm)this(online) and this(always on)to be able to play my games.Though everybody knows that you can play games without cam,drm,always on and online connection.
Again they have created a problem(a real ridiculous one) and again they pretend it has to be that way-and people still believe them.



Mnementh said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine


Sorry, is this your view? Or are you telling me why my view is wrong? If it's the latter, I don't believe in the principles of copyright and trademark rights, let alone all these weird caveats that the legislative and judicial institutions of the world have carved into them.



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the2real4mafol said:
The difference is NO ONE makes money from privacy at all, at least some kind of income is made from second hand. Although, the developers makes no money here obviously.I still find it wrong that companies want to restrict this, as although it don't go to them. The 2nd hand market makes money and create jobs for the industry, be it the retail part. And once you bought it, the game is your property of which you can do as you want except copy and re-distribute of course.

And yes i'm pro-used games and anti-privacy


The economics argument is a poor one. You've essentially given me an adapted version of the broken window fallacy. Your assuming that money not spent on games is money not spent at all. If I don't buy a game because I've downloaded it, that money doesn't disappear, I'll just spend it on something else. Say, coffee at Starbucks.

Don't tell me you hate Starbucks, and want them all out of the job.



SxyxS said:
1)piracy harms developers /publishers as no money is entering the circulation of the gaming market.
Instead of developers some greedy bastards are getting the money now.
In this case the parasite who is destroying the industry get rewarded for being a parasite.

I agree it harms developers and publishers, as do used games, lending games, and rentals. Some may harm more than others, for various reasons, but harm is still done.


2)used games-are part of the system.Someone buys a new game,resells the game and is using the money to buy a new game.The money is always circulating within this system.

1) You have no guarantee that selling used games results in purchases of new games. Most of these stores (gamestop, game, gamestation, whatever), actively push you to buy more used games when you sell your old ones.

2) As I pointed out in an above post, you also assume that somebody who pirates a title, that money just disappears. It doesn't, it goes to somewhere else, and maybe that money might re-enter the system.

If you're not concerned about the general welfare of the populace, and are only concerned with the gaming market, you also need to take into account cases where piracy keeps people within the industry when they fall on hard times, piracy might make gaming actually afforable for some people, justifying the hardware costs.

I can attest to that first example. I remember asking for a new graphics card for Xmas after playing a load of games over my friend's. I never had the money to buy the games, at the time, but piracy lead to me buying a new graphics card. Also, one of those games that I pirated were Fable: TLC. By the time Fable II and III came out, I was older and was working, and I bought both of those games* (regret Fable III, but, thems the breaks). Had I not pirated the first, those future sales probably would have never occured.

*Despite me not being opposed to piracy, I seldom engage in it myself. It's just not worth the hassle. I do whatever's most convenient. For me, nowadays, that usually means buying the game.


Licensing software is a fabrication of the industry -they invested big money into buying corrupt politicians and make this part of the law.

Intellectual property (copyright, trademark, patents) are a fabrication of the law. Used these days by corrupt politicians to sell for the highest bid.


As there are only few people to be that stupid to acceppt the destruction of property rights most people (until now) are unaware when they buy certain software products that they are just licensing them.The software producers kept quiet about this fact and the buyers nowadays are either unaware of slowly got used to this ripp off and think
that this is alright.But it is not.
You own things you buy:this is how it works.You can resell them,break them,burn them,give them away.The entire system.With Cars,Mobiles,Immobiles,toilet paper(hard to resell when used) etc,etc
I've never heard that car companies tried to forbid reselling cars.

You've obviously never LEASED a car. Which is what most software sales usually amount to.

 

They don't dare as they would be instantly lynched.
Even Hollywood isn't trying this,though they sell the same product as the gaming industry(a disc with software entertainment.)
They don't dare as they know 99% of the movie fans would oppose them to the max.
The only genre where you can try this extremly greedy and stupid idea and having a real chance to succeed is:gaming.Don't know why,but many seem to support this ripp of.Strangely many of those guys supporting this shit are living in the USA.The land of the free-but you aren't even free to sell your games?

Did this just turn into an anti-US thread? For reference, I'm from the UK, living in Hong Kong.

People were fighting for centuries for property rights,and now many of them don't care,just to please the "poor" gaming industry that has grown several 100% in the past 15 years and is still moaning and complaining.That's pathetic.You can't grow that much that fast and still being poor and complaining.

Which side of the fence are you on for piracy, again? By arguing for used games, you're contradicting yourself on piracy.

The corporations are always searching for ways to maximize profits,therefore they always create ideas to make people buy more and pay more.It doesn't matter how much they get-they will more.
Let them forbid used game sale,their next step will be to stop used dvd/blu ray movie sales as soon as they realise that they have created enough fools to get away with this..
Than they will try it with books,flowerpots,animals(yes you can even buy and resell living beings but you can't do that with fu@:ing games?!)
yes ,they should forbid to sell used cars to save the car industry-shouldn't they?

That depends. If you lease an animal, you can't resell it. Or lease anything. You can't sell movies you rent from Blockbuster. Leasing software is basically the same idea. Except, you pay more, and rather than returning in 2 days, or something, you keep it for an indefinite amount of time.


The real perversion here is:playing(gaming is part of it) was and still is about learning for life,about sharing,lending ,social behaviour,buying,selling etc-
and now those masters of perversion come around and tell you:You don't owe that.You can't lent it(just once)
you need this(cam),this(drm)this(online) and this(always on)to be able to play my games.Though everybody knows that you can play games without cam,drm,always on and online connection.
Again they have created a problem(a real ridiculous one) and again they pretend it has to be that way-and people still believe them.





Well when you buy a second hand game it removes that stock off the shelf possibly causing the retailer to order in some new copies if there aren't enough trade ins.

Buying used is preferable to Piracy.



SamuelRSmith said:
the2real4mafol said:
The difference is NO ONE makes money from privacy at all, at least some kind of income is made from second hand. Although, the developers makes no money here obviously.I still find it wrong that companies want to restrict this, as although it don't go to them. The 2nd hand market makes money and create jobs for the industry, be it the retail part. And once you bought it, the game is your property of which you can do as you want except copy and re-distribute of course.

And yes i'm pro-used games and anti-privacy


The economics argument is a poor one. You've essentially given me an adapted version of the broken window fallacy. Your assuming that money not spent on games is money not spent at all. If I don't buy a game because I've downloaded it, that money doesn't disappear, I'll just spend it on something else. Say, coffee at Starbucks.

Don't tell me you hate Starbucks, and want them all out of the job.

I don't know how you come to that conclusion but the only thing i hate about Starbucks is the fact they avoid tax (like dozens of companies). It's not right, people don't get away with tax avoidance (as much), so why do companies?

Also, my point is that money is not spent in the gaming industry at all if you pirate, of course it will go elsewhere if they did that



Xbox Series, PS5 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

'When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called the people's stick'- Mikhail Bakunin

Prediction: Switch 2 will outsell the PS5 by 2030

SamuelRSmith said:
Mnementh said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine


Sorry, is this your view? Or are you telling me why my view is wrong? If it's the latter, I don't believe in the principles of copyright and trademark rights, let alone all these weird caveats that the legislative and judicial institutions of the world have carved into them.

Neither. I only tell you the usual reason people make a difference between used sales and piracy or theft. If you think this is enough to justify used games sales is up to you. Law-makers around the world seem to think it is good enough obviously.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025 

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]