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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Xbox One Details: Clarification for the Haters

 

Are you happy with Microsoft's (and mine) clarifications?

Yes, no longer worried at all! 43 7.88%
 
Somewhat happy, but still could be better. 49 8.97%
 
Somewhat not happy, I ren... 37 6.78%
 
No, I still think Microsoft is evil! 417 76.37%
 
Total:546
michael_stutzer on 09 June 2013

I love the OP. I guess he is a PS (or Nintendo?) fan trolling everyone here. Good job.

I don't even see any other possibility.



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nightsurge on 09 June 2013
Soleron said:
nightsurge said:
..

As I mentioned in the thread. If I missed a topic, or you feel I did not cover a topic fully enough, please bring it to my attention. Also, see my response to someone above regarding my use of the word "hater".

I am unaware of any issues with "unnecessary costs" with the Xbox One. In fact, many of the things I brought to peoples attention up in the OP are cost savers over current gen!

The console cost will be higher than needed (forced Kinect) , Live cost will be higher (needing to pay for the extra cloud servers) and game costs will be higher (both on sticker price, and effectively since used game prices will rise).

I did not realize you were privvy to unannounced information regarding this xbox live price and game price increases. Do share that crystal ball of yours? :) also, kinect inclusion does not necessarily mean the console will cost a lot more, and we still do not know if the PS4 will have the eye included or not. And by using this newer method of monitoring game ownership, you are more likely to see game prices drop, not increase.

Game ownership is not really changing either. It is the same game ownership policy from this generation, if you had read the disclaimers from publishers before. Almost all software operates on the "buying a license" mantra. Especially steam!

Please stop saying Steam does it therefore it's OK. It's not OK and has never been OK, it's just more public knowledge now.

The only issue I see with MS's push to the cloud is that the 24 hour timeframe is a bit restrictive compared to Steam which I believe has 30 day checkin? This is likely something MS might change if the complaints are loud enough. Perhaps your home console should be able to go 7 days or more while your "away" account on a different console should be able to last 24 hours.

They will not change it. You can't cite the possibility of them doing so as a reason for the complaints to stop.

You cannot say they won't change it either. It is just as likely that they will, if consumers complain enough. 

What you think is reasonable =/= what MS will actually do.

And what you think about completely unreleased/unconfirmed information =/= what MS will do. 







Soleron on 09 June 2013
nightsurge said:
Soleron said:
nightsurge said:
..

As I mentioned in the thread. If I missed a topic, or you feel I did not cover a topic fully enough, please bring it to my attention. Also, see my response to someone above regarding my use of the word "hater".

I am unaware of any issues with "unnecessary costs" with the Xbox One. In fact, many of the things I brought to peoples attention up in the OP are cost savers over current gen!

The console cost will be higher than needed (forced Kinect) , Live cost will be higher (needing to pay for the extra cloud servers) and game costs will be higher (both on sticker price, and effectively since used game prices will rise).

I did not realize you were privvy to unannounced information regarding this xbox live price and game price increases. Do share that crystal ball of yours? :) also, kinect inclusion does not necessarily mean the console will cost a lot more, and we still do not know if the PS4 will have the eye included or not. And by using this newer method of monitoring game ownership, you are more likely to see game prices drop, not increase.

Premise 1: Kinect camera costs money. Extra servers cost money
Premise 2: MS aren't going to eat margin
Conclusion: Prices on one or both of the games/console are higher than without those things

Which of the premises do you disagree with?

Game ownership is not really changing either. It is the same game ownership policy from this generation, if you had read the disclaimers from publishers before. Almost all software operates on the "buying a license" mantra. Especially steam!

Please stop saying Steam does it therefore it's OK. It's not OK and has never been OK, it's just more public knowledge now.

The only issue I see with MS's push to the cloud is that the 24 hour timeframe is a bit restrictive compared to Steam which I believe has 30 day checkin? This is likely something MS might change if the complaints are loud enough. Perhaps your home console should be able to go 7 days or more while your "away" account on a different console should be able to last 24 hours.

They will not change it. You can't cite the possibility of them doing so as a reason for the complaints to stop.

You cannot say they won't change it either. It is just as likely that they will, if consumers complain enough.

The hate on No Start Menu was hundreds of times bigger and much more easy for MS to back down upon (literally just add the menu back alongside Metro). Did they do it? No.

What you think is reasonable =/= what MS will actually do.

And what you think about completely unreleased/unconfirmed information =/= what MS will do. 

We must prefer the simplest hypothesis. Which is that MS will do nothing.









Sensei on 09 June 2013
ironmanDX said:
Metallicube said:

It's not called being a "hater." It's called being "logical."

So complaining online about something having to use online once every 24 hours is logic now?

Yes it is logic because you cannot assume people can be online every 24 hours just because they are posting on a forum.

Besides, it's not about looking only at oneself; it's about thinking of everyone. Not everyone has even Internet available at their place.

Although I can have Internet 100% of the time, I should not support this console by the principle of it.

"Paying to play online and 24-hour online checks. Only on Xbox."

 

Machiavellian said:

So basically the author states something we all came to the conclusion without him clouding the situation without throughly investigating the technology.  I totally agree with this point but then again its new tech an MS made a statement which means it will be something they will actively push.  So yes, they will have to prove their words.  The difference is that they do have the infrastructure, Platform in Orleans and it appears a few games that will show if they are talking nonsence.  Either way, the Eurogamer article I would not used as a reference because its very shallow.  Hell, the author did not even know what questions to ask MS when the chance was there.  Things like

What platform will you use for Cloud comute.  How dows this platform process information.  What type of info is sent from the client machien.  What is returned from the server.  How does the server leverage the cloud.  How is data processed, replicated etc.  There are so many questions that was not asked which could have solved a lot of confusion.

I don't have the techical savvy to discuss the bandwidth issues with more depth, so I will adopt a 'wait and see' approach to this: I'll believe when I see it in action, i.e., Xbone game producing better graphics than PS4 game. I honestly hope it works for MS (and soon for all gaming companies); imagine how cool it could be to never have to buy/upgrade a console again? Cloud depdendant console would mean online 100% of the time, though. However, until I see the Cloud stuff working, I will not believe MS's claims.



Mummelmann on 09 June 2013

That is a fantastically nuanced poll you have there!



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mike_intellivision on 09 June 2013
SvennoJ said:
When I buy a physical console game I expect it to work any time, anywhere, with or without internet, now or in 20 years without restrictions or being subject to policy changes. Simple.
No game ownership, no point in buying the console.


This is the bigges issue.  When MS takes the serves down, nothing works anymore.  Meaning the hundreds (or thousands) of dollars spent on games and hardware now have a value of ZERO.

 

and while some have said that MS is likely to unlock everything before this happens, the question if how remains -- as well as woud you really expect this of a company who had an executive say at reveal that "backward compatability is really backwards."

 

 



      


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thranx on 09 June 2013
NightDragon83 said:
The only issue I have is the 24-hour online check thing. So you're telling me that if I were to disconnect the console from the internet and just played a single player game or watched a DVD / Blu Ray movie offline, it wouldn't operate AT ALL after a 24 hour period? I find that incredibly hard to believe.

With the 360, if you are connected to the internet, and you pop in a game or launch an app and there's an update for the app, it will require you to download the update first or sign you out of XBL. Something like this I have no problem with, but once you're offline, you should be able to play and do what you want with the console (obviously not using online multiplayer or multimedia apps of course).


only gaming would be affected. but it is still its biggest negative. but i dont see a way around and for them to do the xbox one games any where you log in. They do give the option to authenticate your games over your cellphone if it has internet. Would be grat if they made a way to authenticate over any phone ine, maybe through customer ervice.



Michael-5 on 09 June 2013
nightsurge said:

 

  • The Haters: I can't lend my disc to my friend to play!
  • The Solution: While I do not know this for certain, based on what Microsoft will allow you to call a "family member" it seems to me that you can now share games with your circle of friends with ease! While the simultaneous usage may be limited to one or two people at a time (not sure on that detail), you would at least be able to loan your games with 10 people at a time, which is 10x better than loaning your game to one person, and being unable to play that game yourself in the meantime.
  • Some Possible Catches: Probably requires an internet connection and Xbox Live account. See above.

Kinect Sensor

 

  • The Xbox One's Kinect Sensor is an integral part of the new Xbox One experience, and as such, is required to be plugged in to the console.
  • The Haters: Oh noz! The Kinect will be watching me and always be on! Someone will hack it and see me in the nude!
  • The Solution: Microsoft clearly stated that while the console is "off" the Kinect sensor is only listening for one command of "Xbox On". They also stated that the console is secure, the device is secure, and you are able to customize the Kinect security features at any time. You can "pause" the Kinect during gaming/media etc at any time to disable it from watching and listening.
As you can see, almost all of the horrendous worries about the Xbox One are completely put to rest. The only valid remaining concerns are if you have no internet available to you at all and to a lesser extent, used games/renting games/loaning games (family member sharing would resolve some of these).
If I missed anything else, please contribute so I can add it to this list.

 

 

 

 

 

Online Requirements: Fine

Game Sharing: Not Fine, your info is off, Only 1 person can play the game when I let them borrow it, and they have to have had a One system and been a friend for at least a month. Plus they also have to have the actual disk I recall, so it's not like you make it out to be. I recall their are also other restrictions, like you have to have had your profile on their console at one point or something, and I often lend my games to friends who I haven't played on their console.

Used Games: Not Fine, Participating Retailers are only large scale retailers, this will really hurt smaller retailers, and I often buy used games at smaller retailers because they stock up on older, rarer games more often.

Plus like you said, I can't sell my games on eBay. This might be a minor issue to you, but I've often bought a game day 1, and just hated it, despite the reviews, and sold it back at cost. EBGames gives you peanuts for used games, so this really makes the console expensive. I've made enough money selling old 360 games, to buy at least a dozen more games, can't do that on the One.

However it's not "as bad" as I originally thought. I thought I would have to pay XBL prices for used games, and XBL prices are just ridiculous. Halo 3 and Fable 2 are still $35......

Kinect Sensor: Not okay, I should be able to disable features I don't want. I don't want Kinect always listening and watching, even if it's only looking for keywords. If I want to be able to disable it, that should be my choice, just like turning the console on and going straight to the game or the XBL menu. Secure or not, I don't even want MS with my credit card info, how can you say it's not a big deal to always have ears on me?

Cloud: Never cared.

----

What about Physical ownership of games? With the One, you can only play the game as long as you connect every 24 hours, which means you have to be able to connect to XB One Servers right? What about in 15 years when MS takes down their servers, I can't play my XB One Games? I still play N64 regularly, that would be unfair!

----

My biggest problem is the milking of IP's. I love Forza and Halo, but a new game EVERY 2 years. Forza is a racing sim, not that many cars release in 2 years, and it's hard to make large improvements to the game if their are 3 or 4 entires to the franchise on a console. Halo as well, I'm just getting sick of it, the story is pretty weak now IMO.

Then there are the One/PC exclusives, they aren't exclusive.

Then there is Rare's butchering, I have yet to see one good new game from Rare in 10 years on a MS platform. MS needs to give them more funding.

I want new IP's, I want JRPG's (like before), and I want them to be continuously supported throughout the systems life, not like the 360 which wasn't seen a new IP in nearly 5 years.



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thranx on 09 June 2013
Michael-5 said:

Online Requirements: Fine

Game Sharing: Not Fine, your info is off, Only 1 person can play the game when I let them borrow it, and they have to have had a One system and been a friend for at least a month. Plus they also have to have the actual disk I recall, so it's not like you make it out to be. I recall their are also other restrictions, like you have to have had your profile on their console at one point or something, and I often lend my games to friends who I haven't played on their console.

Used Games: Not Fine, Participating Retailers are only large scale retailers, this will really hurt smaller retailers, and I often buy used games at smaller retailers because they stock up on older, rarer games more often.

Plus like you said, I can't sell my games on eBay. This might be a minor issue to you, but I've often bought a game day 1, and just hated it, despite the reviews, and sold it back at cost. EBGames gives you peanuts for used games, so this really makes the console expensive. I've made enough money selling old 360 games, to buy at least a dozen more games, can't do that on the One.

However it's not "as bad" as I originally thought. I thought I would have to pay XBL prices for used games, and XBL prices are just ridiculous. Halo 3 and Fable 2 are still $35......

Kinect Sensor: Not okay, I should be able to disable features I don't want. I don't want Kinect always listening and watching, even if it's only looking for keywords. If I want to be able to disable it, that should be my choice, just like turning the console on and going straight to the game or the XBL menu. Secure or not, I don't even want MS with my credit card info, how can you say it's not a big deal to always have ears on me?

Cloud: Never cared.

----

My biggest problem is the milking of IP's. I love Forza and Halo, but a new game EVERY 2 years. Forza is a racing sim, not that many cars release in 2 years, and it's hard to make large improvements to the game if their are 3 or 4 entires to the franchise on a console. Halo as well, I'm just getting sick of it, the story is pretty weak now IMO.

Then there are the One/PC exclusives, they aren't exclusive.

Then there is Rare's butchering, I have yet to see one good new game from Rare in 10 years on a MS platform. MS needs to give them more funding.

I want new IP's, I want JRPG's (like before), and I want them to be continuously supported throughout the systems life, not like the 360 which wasn't seen a new IP in nearly 5 years.

I think he is refering to the "10 Family Members" can have access to your xbox one library. they haven't gone into full details on how it will work, but it sounds like you buy a game and 10 people you have registered in someoway can also play your games (only 1 other person simulatiosly, so 2 people can play the same game at once)



antfromtashkent on 09 June 2013
kitler53 said:
nightsurge said:

Online Requirements

 

  • The Xbox One requires a "check" to occur once every 24 hours, when gaming. Or once every 1 hour when gaming from a console that is not your own.
  • The purpose: To see if you have purchased new games, sold/traded any in, allow automatic updates to games, etc.
  • The Haters: Some people still don't have internet! Oh noz! My internet works 99.99% of the time but I will complain that on the rare chance it is off for over a day I will not be able to play! Xbox One failz!
  • The Solution: Microsoft has clearly stated that you can use cellular internet access to do these checkins. I realize that there are still many people out there without internet or are in rural areas where it is harder to get. However, cellular broadband has made great gains and while it still won't cover everywhere, it will decrease this issue quite drastically. Also, this is something easily changed and it could be extended, for example, to 7 days, or 30 days.

 

 

 

 

 

dunno if it is different in other contries or other carriers or other platforms but..

..i'm US on an iphone with verizon.  i would have to play an extra $20 a month to be able to turn my phone into a wifi hot spot so i don't have the ability to use cellular broadband.  maybe they expect me to buy a windows phone?


Oh thank god someone finally said this. I have had at least 7 arguments on here when I had to retype this over and over again.