I'm trying to not really provide examples because I don't want other people's issues leaking into this thread effectively derailing it, but that's my main argument right there. Thicker skinned people willing to open up and listen and provide intelligent feedback instead of crying to a mod or ranting unintelligible remarks back.

No legitimate trolling needs a slap in the face. Legitimate argument though shouldn't get marked with people running to a mod. A mod should be a last resort for someone flinging crap around simply to be doing it.

Edit: I miss the days were people were civilized and could have a discussion or argument and bring up valid points without getting offended. At the end of the day one could agree to disagree, or come out with a different view on things, but no matter the outcome there would be no qaulms against eachother with a pat on the back and that was that.

From what I've seen reading a few threads around here.....it's turned into. "I hate this use because of this opinion" and drama ensures and it's turned into people creating banning honeypots waiting for someone to take the bait.

Arguments used to be more about sales in the past. You had the crazy Nintendo group claiming the Wii would sell 250m units (Jon Lucas, anyone?) and the crazy Sony / Microsoft fans going "the Wii is just a fad!" To prove their point people used to post sales numbers, analyst interviews and historical data.

Today things have simply gotten out of hand. For one thing everyone feels like a loser: Wii U and Vita are selling horribly and it looks like Microsoft is screwing up to a lot of people as well. Also there used to be the clear notion that the gaming market is *predictable*. After the Wii dropped off a sales cliff, PS3 / 360 not selling all too hot either and 8th gen consoles underperforming people feel this has become unpredictable: Who would get into a huge argument, including historical sales data, to prove X console will win 8th gen when the last generation clearly showed things can change dramatically over the course of a couple years? Therefore people focus their efforts on *personal* tastes and that's always a great recipe for disaster, especially among youngsters, as they tend to take other opinions as a personal attack.

To give a short example: Some years ago if you talked about Blue Ocean Strategy or disruption people would try to prove why X console was not disruptive or blue ocean and therefore prove your argument wrong. Today people don't get what you're even talking about and answer with personal attacks ("you have no idea about anything" etc).

(I'm not trying to point out specific users btw. Just my general impression which you are free to disagree on.)

Haha, I wondered if someone would dig out the complete quote. 

And lol @ the bolded stuff. It's almost uncanny. 

I think the change was clear for all to see in 2009 to early 2010.  The site did nothing to protect the smaller Microsoft community of fans and ultimately the majority of the most balanced Microsoft fans left in disgust at the relentless trolling (Natal/Kinect bashed at every opportunity for 3 years).  The same thing has been happening with Nintendo for the last 2 years too now.  Ultimately the site suffers from having a huge skewed majority of Sony fans that make reasonable balanced conversations almost impossible at times as a minority cannot help themselves but enter even the most positive of threads and stick a cheap shot in to ruin the discussion.  It's no surprise that the activity has plummeted in the last week or so as people have run out of Xbox One bashing threads to post.

I'm sure the usual faces will appear to say this isn't true but it's plain to see for anyone who is even remotely unbiased where the issues lie with the forum.  If the Xbox One isn't a huge success at E3 I'll be leaving the site as there will be no point in stopping to read the drivel in the Microsoft boards that will no doubt be posted for weeks.

I would add that the current moderation team can do nothing about the complete inaction of the mods in the past that caused us to arrive at this point.

Now, you'remaking the OP seem like he has a point.

So, you say you will leave if people dont stop criticising Microsoft? You might aswell leave the internet completely because i dont think there will be any place where that wont happen.

Gaming forums are the place where the core gamers come to talk about games. It is obvious a device like kinect, aimed at casuals is gonna be shunned.

Nintendo fans have got it much worse and they are still around. I cant say i agree with what you're saying at all. You have to understand that people have a reason to complain, and to just right it off as "mean to the brand i like" makes it seem a bit off. I would understand if its a thread like "the Xbox community thread". If someone went in there and started bashing microsoft products it would indeed be inappropriate unless its someone that has contributed to the thread for a long time and wants to share his concerns with the others. But aside from those, i cant see how you can claim silence from others over what they dislike.

Only a fool would bet against you!

That's not a VGC problem. Natal/Kinect is bashed at every opportunity everywhere on the internet. Not saying it's the right thing to do, but like the Move, it's easily criticized and has plenty of ammo.

And again, these are largely not VGC problems, in fact, I'd say they're a hell of a lot nicer about these problems. You should really venture is see how much worse people are about Xbone for criticizing VGC's lapse in moderation.

I don't really take this place seriously and no else should really either. People that haven't been permabanned have their reasons for what they say. It's just a bit of banter

I fail to see what the problem is, if I think the community here has turned completely to shit then I'll leave pure and simple.  There will be no big fan fare and goodbye post, I'll log out and not come back, that's my choice.  Before I make that decision I thought it better to share my thoughts which is the point of a forum.  Criticism would be fine but that's not what happens, threads get trolled constantly with the sole aim of disrupting any positive vibe or content and usually by the same 5 posters or so intially.  Every Microsoft fan if asked to name 5 users who cause the most trouble would easily name them.

I'll go further than to suggest what I say is true though, I'll prove it.  You explain how the behaviour in the thread below is acceptable:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=160762&page=1

One thread, that was all we wanted, one thread where it didn't get shit on by trolls and lo and behold they couldn't even stop themselves posting in it.  That is one of many examples but feel free to carry on denying there is any problem.  If the criticism actually had a point or added something that the same posters didn't post in every single thread then I wouldn't have so much of an issue. 

By the way, the following was posted by Axumblade in that very thread and yet people still continued to post negatively, even after being warned not to

For those who are wondering why DirtyP2002 said in the OP to not bring negativity into this thread, I gave him permission to open this thread and told him I would try to monitor it. Other threads, we see a lot of negative comments coming from, so it's good to have a place where people can discuss what they like about it free of criticism.

I pity the forum that the likes of you want, why not just rename the place n4g and be done with it.