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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - No 'Red Ring Of Death'-style disasters for Xbox One, says Microsoft

i would like to think so



Xbox One, PS4 and Switch (+ Many Retro Consoles)

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Prediction: Switch will sell better than Wii U Lifetime Sales by Jan 1st 2018

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Adinnieken said:
Michael-5 said:
Adinnieken said:
Michael-5 said:

Of course One won't have as bad of a RRoD problem as 360, MS still denies the high failure rate of the 360, and never did release a 360 fat which included the two $0.50 clips which hold the motherboard fixing this problem.

With the One, they have learnt how to cover up for mass failures even better.

The failure rate significantly dropped after the Falcon -based board was released to something along the lines of 15%.  The Jasper-based Xbox 360's did even better dropping it below 10%.  Both of these were the original Xbox 360 design, not the Xbox 360 S.

Microsoft may not have published numbers, but a repair facility that Microsoft used did. 

Are those the HDMI model 360's? Yea, 10% and 15% aren't bad, but it's not good either and the HDMI model 360's didn't release until 2008 I believe, that's 3 years and what 16 million consoles in?

Plus, what's worse is MS extended the warrenty on 360's for RRoD problems, and even if you had an extended warrenty from someone else, you had to ship to MS. MS would then replace your console with a "fixed" console someone else sent in. Problem is, these consoles aren't always fixed, and they are still original models with high fairlure rates.

I speak from experience, I had to ship my 360 out and get it replaced twice, and I had to specifically ask for a new one to replace my console with. That replacement console still broke, but thankfully, a good floor manager from Best Buy replaced my console with an HDMI 360 after my 3rd 360 broke.

P.S. What was the actual fail rate for original 360's? What about PS3/Wii? I read PS3's are about 2.5% and Wii is <0.2%.

No, September of 2007 was when officially the Falcon-based HDMI models launched.  The Zephyr-based HDMI models launched in April of 2007, however Zephyr-based 360's didn't adequately resolve the heat problem and still had the larger 90nm GPU and CPU.  10% is actually considered within the industry average.  The PS3 is now worse than the Xbox 360. 

Again, initially they refurbished the motherboards by removing the 90nm CPU and replacing it with a 65nm CPU, installing a larger heatsink on the GPU, and securing it to the mainboard.  While some of the refurbished boards didn't last, these refurbished boards were viable.  That is to say, they worked just as well as a brand new board, which for the non-HDMI models was functionally the same as a refurbished board.

My original Xbox 360 (Jan/06) failed with the RRoD 2 3/4 years after it was purchased.  It was replaced, and within 90 days the DVD failed.  I repeated this sequence every three months, with the exception of two 6 month periods and one year where life prevented me from using the console until I went through 8 consoles because of a DVD failure.  The final straw, for Microsoft, was my last console.  I sent them pictures, I explained everything, they sent me a console and within 90 days it failed.  Through my persistence and their analysis, come to find out a patch, when applied in the wrong order, had a detrimental affect on the DVD drive.  Subsequently, Microsoft provided a retro-active warranty on the DVD drive for anyone who had a specific problem, had it repaired, and paid for it, as well as changing the installation order for patches.

While I feel your pain regarding refurbished units, in my opinion, they were fine.  The worst thing I ran into was a bad rear USB port.  It worked, but it was just loose.  But the majority of the units I came across looked new, and were in great condition.  One of them I desperately tried to keep, because it was so quiet and had one of the smoothest operating DVD drives I'd ever ran across -- before it failed. 

I don't believe the PS3 is that low.  It may have been that low initially, but after about two years of operation, the YLOD on the original BC PS3's started to rear it's ugly head.  In 2009 Game Informer did a survey of 5,000 and found that 10.6% of those surveyed PS3 owners had a hardware failure.  This might be slightly inflated, because Game Informer didn't distinguish between people having a problem, getting it repaired, and having another problem with the repaired unit.  Subsequently, their Xbox 360 number is extremely high.  I don't believe people who had a PS3, a hardware failure, and got it repaired had a signficant number of repeated problems.  Speaking from experience, certainly the Xbox 360 circumstance was not that way.

It would have been nice if the Game Informer article specified people who had an initial problem on a system they purchased, vs people who had a problem with each console.  I think the Xbox 360 rate would have dropped to one that was inline with other figures being reported, e.g. 33%.  By the way, the PS3 figures also match up to those provided by a repair service Square Trade, while the Xbox 360 figures don't. 

http://www.gamegrep.com/news/24032-hardware_failure_rates_for_the_wii_360_and_ps3/

http://www.gamespot.com/news/xbox-360-failure-rate-237-ps3-10-wii-27-study-6216691 
 
Again, currently the Xbox 360 S enjoys a failure rate below that of the PS3.  That isn't to say Xbox 360's don't still fail, they do, but they're now well within industry averages.

I can't remember where I got that 2.5% figure for PS3, but I remember reading that that was the failure rate "within 3 years." The PS3 fail rate is probably higher, from my experience with a PS1 and PS2, Sony consoles typically last 5 years before they break. If this figure is accurate, it means that some PS3's and Wii's break within 3 years, but most break within 3-4 years.

------

Also i disagree with you about refurbished units. You resent your X-Box 360 8 times, that's not okay.

From experience, I feel MS has terrible customer relations. When my 3rd console broke I sent it to MS 3 or 4 times, only for them to say "It's operating fine." It wasn't fine, it was breaking, and it actually broke a month after warrenty, but I had an extended warrenty with Best Buy, and the guy was real nice. Got an HDMI model, finally. I really don't like how MS couldn't just send me a Falcon HDMI model....

In terms of reliability, all I want is a console that lasts the entire gen. That's how long consoles used to last, that's how it should be. All my Nintendo home consoles are fine, and like I said my PS1 & PS2 lasted about 5-6 years, which to me was just a bit too short because I still had a bunch of unfinished games at the point. I bought my PS3 used, so I can't judge it breaking after 1 year, and my PSP is only a year old, so no comment on that.

However to be fair, my PS1/PS2 were 1st gen models. So were my Nintendo's, but still.

----

Funny thing is, I bought a 360 because I was tired of my Sony Home consoles breaking right when the next gen starts. I thought MS reliability was good because most people I know with an XB1 still had a working model. Maybe people just played XB1 less....

Either Way because of Sony/MS's poor reliability record, I refuse to buy a 1st gen console by either developer. So I can't get a PS4 until 2015/2016.. That means Wii U is first



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So are you saying it can't fail what exactly are you implying!



Michael-5 said:

I can't remember where I got that 2.5% figure for PS3, but I remember reading that that was the failure rate "within 3 years." The PS3 fail rate is probably higher, from my experience with a PS1 and PS2, Sony consoles typically last 5 years before they break. If this figure is accurate, it means that some PS3's and Wii's break within 3 years, but most break within 3-4 years.

------

Also i disagree with you about refurbished units. You resent your X-Box 360 8 times, that's not okay.

From experience, I feel MS has terrible customer relations. When my 3rd console broke I sent it to MS 3 or 4 times, only for them to say "It's operating fine." It wasn't fine, it was breaking, and it actually broke a month after warrenty, but I had an extended warrenty with Best Buy, and the guy was real nice. Got an HDMI model, finally. I really don't like how MS couldn't just send me a Falcon HDMI model....

In terms of reliability, all I want is a console that lasts the entire gen. That's how long consoles used to last, that's how it should be. All my Nintendo home consoles are fine, and like I said my PS1 & PS2 lasted about 5-6 years, which to me was just a bit too short because I still had a bunch of unfinished games at the point. I bought my PS3 used, so I can't judge it breaking after 1 year, and my PSP is only a year old, so no comment on that.

However to be fair, my PS1/PS2 were 1st gen models. So were my Nintendo's, but still.

----

Funny thing is, I bought a 360 because I was tired of my Sony Home consoles breaking right when the next gen starts. I thought MS reliability was good because most people I know with an XB1 still had a working model. Maybe people just played XB1 less....

Either Way because of Sony/MS's poor reliability record, I refuse to buy a 1st gen console by either developer. So I can't get a PS4 until 2015/2016.. That means Wii U is first

And the reason why I have been invited to Redmond is my tenacity.  When I "discover" a problem, I stick with it and I aggressively pursue it.  Trust me, I didn't just sit back and send in consoles, let them break, and send it in again.  I documented the problem, I detailed it, and I worked with Microsoft to get the problem solved.  Like I said, they discovered that a patch to the firmware, essentially put in the wrong order, caused the DVD drive to fail.  The patch assumed the original firmware was installed, however Microsoft installed a later firmware as the base firmware.  When anyone got their Xbox 360 back from repair, connected it to Xbox Live, and downloaded the latest updates, the patch installed out of order causing the drive to eventually fail.  I don't know if Microsoft removed the patch or if they updated the patch, or just changed the order of execution, but they identified the problem and resolved it.  



badgenome said:
Miguel_Zorro said:

It's funny, since Edge Online isn't an American website.

Which just proves once and for all that America really is the world.

Suck it, haters!

That clears up the reason why Sony claims to give you an out of this world experience MS can't match, it also explains why Americans say what planet are you from! when I tell them I own a PS3.



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Seems people easily forgot about all of the CD problems Sony had with the PS2 and then the problem with the YLOD with the PS3.  I know for a fact I can attest to both problems because I had to jump through hoops to fix that CD issue with the PS2 that Sony charged me 150 bones to fix.  Then when my 60GB First run PS3 bit the dust with the YLOD, the same thing.  I would have to pay 150 bones to get that fix.  People state that the YLOD was not as bad as the RROD but it was bad enough to effect 4 out of 10 of my friends.  Either way, if you face such hardware problems, you care not how prevalent it is, you just want it fixed without having to pay 150 bones.

Personally, Sony and MS have much to prove on the hardware point.  I can say that my Wii has given me no problems and in general, Nintendo consoles seem to last a dent amount of time.



Adinnieken said:
Michael-5 said:

I can't remember where I got that 2.5% figure for PS3, but I remember reading that that was the failure rate "within 3 years." The PS3 fail rate is probably higher, from my experience with a PS1 and PS2, Sony consoles typically last 5 years before they break. If this figure is accurate, it means that some PS3's and Wii's break within 3 years, but most break within 3-4 years.

------

Also i disagree with you about refurbished units. You resent your X-Box 360 8 times, that's not okay.

From experience, I feel MS has terrible customer relations. When my 3rd console broke I sent it to MS 3 or 4 times, only for them to say "It's operating fine." It wasn't fine, it was breaking, and it actually broke a month after warrenty, but I had an extended warrenty with Best Buy, and the guy was real nice. Got an HDMI model, finally. I really don't like how MS couldn't just send me a Falcon HDMI model....

In terms of reliability, all I want is a console that lasts the entire gen. That's how long consoles used to last, that's how it should be. All my Nintendo home consoles are fine, and like I said my PS1 & PS2 lasted about 5-6 years, which to me was just a bit too short because I still had a bunch of unfinished games at the point. I bought my PS3 used, so I can't judge it breaking after 1 year, and my PSP is only a year old, so no comment on that.

However to be fair, my PS1/PS2 were 1st gen models. So were my Nintendo's, but still.

----

Funny thing is, I bought a 360 because I was tired of my Sony Home consoles breaking right when the next gen starts. I thought MS reliability was good because most people I know with an XB1 still had a working model. Maybe people just played XB1 less....

Either Way because of Sony/MS's poor reliability record, I refuse to buy a 1st gen console by either developer. So I can't get a PS4 until 2015/2016.. That means Wii U is first

And the reason why I have been invited to Redmond is my tenacity.  When I "discover" a problem, I stick with it and I aggressively pursue it.  Trust me, I didn't just sit back and send in consoles, let them break, and send it in again.  I documented the problem, I detailed it, and I worked with Microsoft to get the problem solved.  Like I said, they discovered that a patch to the firmware, essentially put in the wrong order, caused the DVD drive to fail.  The patch assumed the original firmware was installed, however Microsoft installed a later firmware as the base firmware.  When anyone got their Xbox 360 back from repair, connected it to Xbox Live, and downloaded the latest updates, the patch installed out of order causing the drive to eventually fail.  I don't know if Microsoft removed the patch or if they updated the patch, or just changed the order of execution, but they identified the problem and resolved it.  

Still, that's terrible. If I had a car that was making transmission noises, and they just changed the clutch that would be the same situation as what Microsoft did.

However I can't compare MS to anyone else, never had a Nintendo break, and my Sony's broke well after warrenty.

What I can say though is Microsoft's lacks a strong will to preserve their products. I have 2 Microsoft Brand Race Wheels which were sold at retailer for about 2 years (2007-2009). In 2009 my dog chewed the power cable to one of those wheels, and only a couple months after the product was discontinued, MS completly stopped carrying replacement power cables. It's one thing to keep a product on the shelf for such a short period of time, but to completely stop stocking replacement power cables? Owning a Microsoft product feels worse then owning a Pontiac, at least you can go to a Chevy dealer and have your Pontiac fixed, and Pontiac was dissolved, MS is not!

By comparision, I lost a power cable to my SNES console back in 2004. Turns out the replacement power cable to the Gamecube is backward compatible to the NES, SNES, and N64 (just have to remove the adaptor for N64/GCN). I also lost the stylus to my original DS, and I ordered a new one from Nintendo just this year.

Microsofts Quality Care, and Customer Support, are just garbage. I've never heard of a company who is known to replace systems with brocken systems, and discontinue selling replacement power cables to products two months after the product was discontinued.

----

You're just reminding me about MS shotty practices, and make me want to own a Xbone less and less now...



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Michael-5 said:

Still, that's terrible. If I had a car that was making transmission noises, and they just changed the clutch that would be the same situation as what Microsoft did.

However I can't compare MS to anyone else, never had a Nintendo break, and my Sony's broke well after warrenty.

What I can say though is Microsoft's lacks a strong will to preserve their products. I have 2 Microsoft Brand Race Wheels which were sold at retailer for about 2 years (2007-2009). In 2009 my dog chewed the power cable to one of those wheels, and only a couple months after the product was discontinued, MS completly stopped carrying replacement power cables. It's one thing to keep a product on the shelf for such a short period of time, but to completely stop stocking replacement power cables? Owning a Microsoft product feels worse then owning a Pontiac, at least you can go to a Chevy dealer and have your Pontiac fixed, and Pontiac was dissolved, MS is not!

By comparision, I lost a power cable to my SNES console back in 2004. Turns out the replacement power cable to the Gamecube is backward compatible to the NES, SNES, and N64 (just have to remove the adaptor for N64/GCN). I also lost the stylus to my original DS, and I ordered a new one from Nintendo just this year.

Microsofts Quality Care, and Customer Support, are just garbage. I've never heard of a company who is known to replace systems with brocken systems, and discontinue selling replacement power cables to products two months after the product was discontinued.

----

You're just reminding me about MS shotty practices, and make me want to own a Xbone less and less now...

Interesting, but horrible analogy.  My 1984 Oldsmobile Firenza had a 1.8L Inline-4 cyclinder engine that was imported from Brazil.

GM knew it leaked oil before they started using it the American products.  Yet they still used the engine.  How do I know this?  Because one of the sons of a life-long friend of the family worked for GM.  So did his father in-law, who specifically worked on the project.  GM didn't offer anything.  I could do the repairs myself though.  Yay for me.  Not only that, but the doors were of such poor design that within a few years they began rusting because the drip holes in the door got clogged.  In the 20 some years the car existed, GM never re-engineered the doors so the drip holes wouldn't clog.  Which is why every J-Body GM car has rusted doors.

Which cord did your dog chew through?  The cord from the wall to the power brick of the cord attached to the power brick?  The power brick you can get from Amazon.com, the cord to the power brick is a common cord.  The same cord that'll be used for the Xbox One.  If you have a RadioShack nearby, off the top of my head it's either a 61-210 or a 61-212.

So, two seconds of searching on Amazon for your power brick.  As for your AC power cord, a stop to RadioShack will likely take care of your problems.  You can also contact Microsoft for replacement parts.

 



Adinnieken said:
Michael-5 said:

Still, that's terrible. If I had a car that was making transmission noises, and they just changed the clutch that would be the same situation as what Microsoft did.

However I can't compare MS to anyone else, never had a Nintendo break, and my Sony's broke well after warrenty.

What I can say though is Microsoft's lacks a strong will to preserve their products. I have 2 Microsoft Brand Race Wheels which were sold at retailer for about 2 years (2007-2009). In 2009 my dog chewed the power cable to one of those wheels, and only a couple months after the product was discontinued, MS completly stopped carrying replacement power cables. It's one thing to keep a product on the shelf for such a short period of time, but to completely stop stocking replacement power cables? Owning a Microsoft product feels worse then owning a Pontiac, at least you can go to a Chevy dealer and have your Pontiac fixed, and Pontiac was dissolved, MS is not!

By comparision, I lost a power cable to my SNES console back in 2004. Turns out the replacement power cable to the Gamecube is backward compatible to the NES, SNES, and N64 (just have to remove the adaptor for N64/GCN). I also lost the stylus to my original DS, and I ordered a new one from Nintendo just this year.

Microsofts Quality Care, and Customer Support, are just garbage. I've never heard of a company who is known to replace systems with brocken systems, and discontinue selling replacement power cables to products two months after the product was discontinued.

----

You're just reminding me about MS shotty practices, and make me want to own a Xbone less and less now...

Interesting, but horrible analogy.  My 1984 Oldsmobile Firenza had a 1.8L Inline-4 cyclinder engine that was imported from Brazil.

GM knew it leaked oil before they started using it the American products.  Yet they still used the engine.  How do I know this?  Because one of the sons of a life-long friend of the family worked for GM.  So did his father in-law, who specifically worked on the project.  GM didn't offer anything.  I could do the repairs myself though.  Yay for me.  Not only that, but the doors were of such poor design that within a few years they began rusting because the drip holes in the door got clogged.  In the 20 some years the car existed, GM never re-engineered the doors so the drip holes wouldn't clog.  Which is why every J-Body GM car has rusted doors.

Which cord did your dog chew through?  The cord from the wall to the power brick of the cord attached to the power brick?  The power brick you can get from Amazon.com, the cord to the power brick is a common cord.  The same cord that'll be used for the Xbox One.  If you have a RadioShack nearby, off the top of my head it's either a 61-210 or a 61-212.

So, two seconds of searching on Amazon for your power brick.  As for your AC power cord, a stop to RadioShack will likely take care of your problems.  You can also contact Microsoft for replacement parts.

Okay, I won't argue GM cars are pretty bad too, lol. My parents had an old GM, dunno which one exactly, whatever came before the cavilier, and the engine blew at 75,000km (45,000 miles). We got a new engine in it, and it made it over 200,000km (combined) in the end, but yea. Dodge is worse though, those caravans break torque converter solenoids almost as fast as they wear out tires.

Compare that to my sisters BMW 318, it went to 290,000km (165,000 miles) or my friends Toyota Tacoma which has over 200,000 miles (320,000km) and it runs fine.

Let's just agree that American products, of all sorts, are not known for reliability....

As for the power cable, he chewed the part with a power brick, and I know you can get a knock off brand cable, I ended up doing that. However the wheel is designed only to accept MS brand adaptors. I got the right specs, the exact same end, amperage, and voltage, and it didn't work on my wheel, yet it worked on another appliance with the same specs. I dunno how companies do this, my dell laptop power cable also broke, and I got an after market one, but it wouldn't charge my battery (computer recognized it was after market and warned me), so I ended up buying a dell cable.

Also when I was looking for a MS brand power cable, I did contact MS, and they told me that they don't stock supplies for discontinued products. I said that above. The only advice that gave me was to buy a completely new steering wheel off eBay or something, and I didn't want to spend around $100 with shipping for a replacement wheel.

Now the wheel doesn't work at all, it won't even accept the MS brand charger which I have with my second wheel (I have 2 wheels).

---

Anyway, you won't change my mind, in my experience MS customer service was really bad. How do you not stock old power supplies, and make a product which doesn't accept aftermarket power adaptors?



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