EDIT: I have to be clear, this is not an MS bashing thread. XBox is great. It's just looking more at the indirect impact the arrival of the XBox brand had on the trajectory of Nintendo.

Not a knock on MS' efforts to be sure. MS has done a very good job with the XBox brand. But they make so much money from their core business, games are just a throw away for them, and the whole paranoia they had about Sony being a threat to Windows was misplaced all along (Apple was always the real threat that they didn't see coming). And I think Sony basically would've eventually done most of the same things as Microsoft (XBox Live really did push the industry, but Sony probably would've gotten there a little later).

What the XBox did though IMO is it really hurt the GameCube. Even with all its missteps with the GCN, it was still a damn good system that had lots of pretty good third party exclusives (Resident Evil, Tales of Symphonia, MGS: Twin Snakes, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Star Wars: Rogue Squadron II/III, etc.). If there was no XBox, I can't help but feel the GameCube would've sold much better. Nowhere close to the PS2, but certainly probably 35-45 million at least.

I think it would've been positioned OK as a much more developer friendly alternative to the PS2 that could push out better looking games. With Sega out of the way, Nintendo would be the only alternative. But XBox with Halo really split what was left the market outside of the PS2 and that forced Nintendo into a compromised position even though they did a lot of good things with the GameCube.

MS' entry into the game business also led to the sale of Rare to Microsoft and they've basically been neuetered ever since. Nintendo may have still sold off Rare, but in that case they would've been forced to sell them to a 3rd party at least and things like Banjo-Threeie or something on future Nintendo consoles still would've been possible. 

It also led Nintendo down the path of casual gaming, which while being wildly successful for about 4 years has turned into a dead end for them now and moved them off the path of making reasonably spec-ed hardware.

well microsoft got into the gamining market to go after sony, and it was proven this current gen was done quite well for them. Nintendo is always off doing their own thing and yes the entry of microsoft has effected every company as the big M is now a big player. I say this gen though they hurt sony the most. But the wii days are over and will see what happens with the wii U

Huh? Do you work for Nintendo? Otherwise competition is good sauce us consumers.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that they are in the gaming business, rather than using gamers as a stepping stone into the set top box business.

I can't agree. It is 2013, and Nintendo still doesn't have an account system for its network, so I shudder to think what online gaming would be like on consoles without Microsoft.

I actually in this case don't think it was good for consumers. Sony Vs. Nintendo would've still had ample competetion.

A lot of the things MS brought the game industry, Sony was doing already or would've gotten to do eventually any how (ie: an online network service).

But the underappreciation of the GameCube, which was a pretty darn good system IMO, led Nintendo to chase the casual dragon, the selling of Rare to MS was bad for the company and fans of their games IMO, etc. etc.

I just don't see other than things like XBox Live and Halo what MS really brought to the industry other than making it very hard for Nintendo (to MS' credit) to get any of the core gaming market.

But I think Nintendo would have focused on online much moreso with the GameCube successor if MS wasn't around. The whole "we don't care about online" thing was really galvanized at Nintendo IMO because Microsoft was focusing on it so much that it led Nintendo to focus more on a casual approach.

Nintendo was actually experimenting with an online network in the 64DD in Japan before Sony or MS, but they abruptly nixed that completely. Maybe that's just coincidence but I find it interesting that they go from experimenting with a network service to doing a 180 on it as the XBox/GameCube/PS2 battle began.

Sony would've made their online network either way, with or without XBox Live to push them.

I'm actually glad they came around because competition makes everything better

What happened to Nintendo was nobodies fault but Nintendo's.