Oh, my reading comprehension is phenomenal.  I think it's yours that are lacking. You claim he says Epic dislikes Nintendo for valid reason. IE not making money on their system from game sales... But tell me, what game has Epic released on the Nintendo system for their valid dispising?

I don't know, why don't you try ask the original poster.  I couldn't care less at this point.  I have a job to do and you're exhausting.

 don't know because the answer is none. Epic has only developed Unreal Tournament at the begining of this gen and Gears 1-3 on 360. But fuck man, it's a lot easier to take the same position that francis took. Which is blame someone else instead of placing blame solely where it belongs. Am I the reason you are exhausted? No, in this case its you that are exhausting. In this case it's you with poor reading comprehension. So man up and admit you were wrong and apologize.

"But nintendo's stance with developers is not helping and when you're a dev and see your AAA game barelly pulling 1 million, and then NIntendo IP selling 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 million... well you're not willing that much to put software on such machine if you're going to be either ignored or crushed by nintendo selling power."

HE WAS PLACING BLAME ON NINTENDO (and perhaps Nintendo's user base)!  That's what I'm trying to tell you.  Their system/games tend to overshadow 3rd party... I was simply trying to tell you not to jump down the original poster's throat and read his entire post.  Not just on behalf of francis, or you ,but on behalf of anyone else reading.  

 Also, I did not know that about Epic nor did I ever claim to.  Doesn't matter though, if anything it supports the arguement that Epic does not see the ROI of putting games out for the Wii U because they see how OTHER 3rd parties perform.  I wouldn't say that Epic dispises Nintendo.  They just don't see the ROI at the moment, and they probably despise NOT making money... who wouldn't. 

I will apologize for insulting your reading comprehension - no need for dragging myself down to that level after I just told everyone else not to do it...  But the rest still stands.

Okay, I see your point with developers.

But I was addressing the fact that he said Epic despises Nintendo... but Epic isn't even really a developer. their main business is Unreal Engine and licensing that to developers with developing a secondary endeavor. Epic works more with developers than they would with manufacturers and Epic would be more than glad to license their engine to anyone who wants to pay for it. It has nothing to do with hating Nintendo. They said straight up that their engine could be on the Wii U if a developer wants to take their time to make it but that is pointless because the Wii U can't handle the things that make UE4 UE4 and it would be exactly like their UE3 engine that the developers could use instead.

As far as I'm aware nobody is producing anything lower than a 28nm process yet. 28nm is still pretty new, hence my saying there would be a lot of wasted silicone.

But you're certainly right about the economy being an important factor, we're not even in recovery yet...at least not here in the UK. I just can't see Sony or Microsoft releasing their consoles for less than $400 given the hardware, Kinect, camera bar, controllers etc.

Yes everybody expects a console that comes out 6 years late to the party to be next gen. When they revealed the Wii U at E3 I expected nothing less then all ps3/ 360 games looking like crap in comparison to the "next gen" graphics of the Wii U. Even a launch title like Zombi U should have wowed me but it looked kinda meh and definetly not a upgrade to what we seen before on 6 year old hardware.

There is just no such thing as a console designed as a native 720p machine if it could actually handle 1080p. Lots of current gen ports were announced as 1080p native titles but got downscaled to 720p already. That alone should tell you that the Wii U is not really next gen material. I am sure it's more powerfull then current gen consoles but developers really need to dig deep to get a result that most people won't even notice. Just look at NFS Most Wanted where Criterion really put in the work to make a superior Wii U version. If developers really need to put in so much work then they'll probably not bother, just like with the ps3 (which has a huge installbase to ignore). If developers have problems now, then what will happen when MS/ Sony come out with an easy-to-develop-for platform and 6 times the power? 

Frost Bite 3 has never been running on WiiU. We did some tests with not too promising results with FB2 & chose not to go down that path.

Point taken on the first half, and certainly agree with the bold.

Underlined I slightly disagree with.  Despite being far less powerfull than the PS4 (it is), the Wii U IS in fact a newer architecture.  The UE4 has hooks in it to take advantage of those newer architecture items.  So an UE4 game on the Wii U would/should look prettier than an UE3 game on the Wii U.  That being said, I think most of the demand for the UE4 engine is coming from developers that want to put out games on the Xbox next/PS4... There is no return on investment for Epic to port it at this time without developer demand.

The key question is how easy is it to port from UE4 to UE3 code?  If it is difficult to migrate between engines, and those said developers above see a large installed base for the Wii U, they might start asking Epic for the UE4 on Wii U so they can port "easily".  If Epic sees a revenue potential (demand from developers), they will do it.  Of course, this has yet to happen and no one knows if it ever will.

There most certainly is such a thing as a console designed from the ground up to be a 720p machine. The 32MB eDRAM and 2MB SRAM on die for Latte are exactly the right size for a 720p native frame buffer.

You really need to check out the Latte thread on Gaf.

A game for the PS4 and 720 that's 1080p native will need only half the processing power when ported to the Wii U in 720p native. And that's before you take less AA, less impressive lighting, less impressive particle effects, more pop-in, less draw distance and longer loading times into account.

Some of you seem to be convinced that we're going to have another Wii/PS3/360 situation this gen when this is simply not the case. The hardware currently doesn't exist to make this possible for a console yet unless you want a console the size of a small house, with a fan over 100Db that's going to cost over a grand lol.

If a console has a big enough installed userbase publishers will always have developers coding for the lowest common denominator. The only thing stopping that last gen with the Wii was that the console had a nonstandard rendering pipeline.

The lowest common demoniator might be the nextXbox though, assuming it is less powerful than the PS4.  It does help the Wii U's cause a little bit if the next box is even less powerful than the PS4, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee ports.

Certainly doesn hurt though.