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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Bethesda: Used games 'absolutely' a concern

NintendoPie on 16 April 2013
Barozi said:


Because the industry is not as big as WE would like it to be. If it was larger no one would give a crap about it. Sure they could try to reduce the budget for all their next games, but that would not help the industry at all. Neither to attract new gamers nor to satisfy the current ones.

Then all other entertainment markets have a much lower entry price for their products. Therefore they can only fall by so much, thus making the difference between used price and new price much smaller. Buying a Blu-Ray used for $5 or get it new for $10 is a much easier decision that buying a used game for $15 or the game new for $30, even though the precental difference is exactly the same.

If the gaming market was as big as the movie market you can be sure that games would cost about as much as Blu-Rays. But it isn't so we have to deal with higher prices that actually should be raised by $10 for inflation reasons. The fact that Sony is not doing it (and Microsoft would be stupid not to follow) is already a clear sign that gaming is getting cheaper and yet gamers seem to be the true cheapskates.

Is it really so much to ask to wait for a game to reach $30-40 dollar, which happens in a couple of weeks anyway ,than buy it a day or two after launch used for the same price ?

Certain developers are big enough to sustain people buying their games used. There are some that are small (or indie) that may think that used games'll kill their whole gig, but really all they have to do is only develop for the online stores. Then it's impossible to buy their game used.

Besides, I don't buy used games. I hate buying used games. I just think it's ridiculous to take away the option. Gaming companies need to find a way to deal with it. (Because if there isn't anymore used market, then the pirating market will grow even larger.)



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Barozi on 16 April 2013
outlawauron said:
Barozi said:

1) Well yes it is. Microsoft can ban consoles from their network, they used to lock your 360 harddrive and they will remove your achievements if you cheat.
The post WiiU/PS4/Xbox³ gen will be even more similar to Steam. It's quite possible that by that time "always-on" might be the standard.


2) That's what I also said, but you're not be able to get into the multiplayer modes.

Sure local network play and such things, but not unless you know ~16 people who are willing to play with you everytime you want.
Then there are non official servers in some (!) cases that use outdated versions of the game with tons of cheaters.

Bottom line, if you like to play a game online you need to buy the game new or at least a valid new key.
Pretty much the same as buying an online pass for used games.

Depends on the game. I've played many things together with friends online that neither of us bought. There's always some workaround the people find.

And while I do find online passes annoying, I understand and accept those. But it's very different from serial key as you can only get those from buying a new game ($5 or $10 versus $50 or $60).

That's also what I adressed. It is possible and I've also done it in several games, but you need to rely on friends.
Co-op gaming, 1vs1 or even 2vs2 is absolutely no problem (as long as your friends have always time when you like to play), but if you want to play an FPS you need a dozen of people and that's where random folks come into play and you can always find those on the official multiplayer where no one needs to know your IP address just to join a game.


You forget that the online pass alone has not as much value as a serial key. So on top of the online pass costs you'd need to add the price of the used game.



Barozi on 16 April 2013
NintendoPie said:
Barozi said:


Because the industry is not as big as WE would like it to be. If it was larger no one would give a crap about it. Sure they could try to reduce the budget for all their next games, but that would not help the industry at all. Neither to attract new gamers nor to satisfy the current ones.

Then all other entertainment markets have a much lower entry price for their products. Therefore they can only fall by so much, thus making the difference between used price and new price much smaller. Buying a Blu-Ray used for $5 or get it new for $10 is a much easier decision that buying a used game for $15 or the game new for $30, even though the precental difference is exactly the same.

If the gaming market was as big as the movie market you can be sure that games would cost about as much as Blu-Rays. But it isn't so we have to deal with higher prices that actually should be raised by $10 for inflation reasons. The fact that Sony is not doing it (and Microsoft would be stupid not to follow) is already a clear sign that gaming is getting cheaper and yet gamers seem to be the true cheapskates.

Is it really so much to ask to wait for a game to reach $30-40 dollar, which happens in a couple of weeks anyway ,than buy it a day or two after launch used for the same price ?

Certain developers are big enough to sustain people buying their games used. There are some that are small (or indie) that may think that used games'll kill their whole gig, but really all they have to do is only develop for the online stores. Then it's impossible to buy their game used.

Besides, I don't buy used games. I hate buying used games. I just think it's ridiculous to take away the option. Gaming companies need to find a way to deal with it. (Because if there isn't anymore used market, then the pirating market will grow even larger.)

Just because they're big doesn't mean that they make a lot of profits :P

I don't hear complaints from Nintendo regarding used sales for example.



NintendoPie on 16 April 2013
Barozi said:

Just because they're big doesn't mean that they make a lot of profits :P

I don't hear complaints from Nintendo regarding used sales for example.

Exactly. That's because I doubt it makes much of a dent in their overall profits.



KHlover on 16 April 2013
Barozi said:
NintendoPie said:
Barozi said:


Because the industry is not as big as WE would like it to be. If it was larger no one would give a crap about it. Sure they could try to reduce the budget for all their next games, but that would not help the industry at all. Neither to attract new gamers nor to satisfy the current ones.

Then all other entertainment markets have a much lower entry price for their products. Therefore they can only fall by so much, thus making the difference between used price and new price much smaller. Buying a Blu-Ray used for $5 or get it new for $10 is a much easier decision that buying a used game for $15 or the game new for $30, even though the precental difference is exactly the same.

If the gaming market was as big as the movie market you can be sure that games would cost about as much as Blu-Rays. But it isn't so we have to deal with higher prices that actually should be raised by $10 for inflation reasons. The fact that Sony is not doing it (and Microsoft would be stupid not to follow) is already a clear sign that gaming is getting cheaper and yet gamers seem to be the true cheapskates.

Is it really so much to ask to wait for a game to reach $30-40 dollar, which happens in a couple of weeks anyway ,than buy it a day or two after launch used for the same price ?

Certain developers are big enough to sustain people buying their games used. There are some that are small (or indie) that may think that used games'll kill their whole gig, but really all they have to do is only develop for the online stores. Then it's impossible to buy their game used.

Besides, I don't buy used games. I hate buying used games. I just think it's ridiculous to take away the option. Gaming companies need to find a way to deal with it. (Because if there isn't anymore used market, then the pirating market will grow even larger.)

Just because they're big doesn't mean that they make a lot of profits :P

I don't hear complaints from Nintendo regarding used sales for example.

Why would they? Even a seven year old game like New Super Mario Bros. still moves units comparable to Uncharted 3 every week while most Wii games from Nintendo didn't even receive a price cut yet. You'll have a pretty hard time finding used Nintendo games, people just don't sell them.



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DarthVolod on 16 April 2013

If this is the case then why the hell did they remove the class system inbetween Oblivion and Skyrim. Thanks to this absurd design decision, I (and everyone else for that matter) really have no reason to ever play Skyrim again. The Dragonborn is the same old dull jack of all trades in every play through you will ever do.

Sorry, I'm still mad about this ...

 

And used games "hurting" developers is just as absurd an argument as it has always been. Every other type of electronic media can be sold used and nobody else complains. If they try to force exploitative practices like digital distribution and too much DLC down our throats we will close our wallets; it's that simple. Developers need to wake up to this reality.



BuckStud on 16 April 2013
JayWood2010 said:
BuckStud said:
JayWood2010 said:
JoeTheBro said:
You could just make bigger and longer games. Then again they already do.


I said it before but I hope PS4 and NeXbox blocks used games.  As long as they both make the commitement together their shouldnt be a backlash from the community.  Sony has been shady about the situation and Microsoft hasn't said anything yet but I'm hoping if one does it the other does it as well or it will be useless.  I'd like them to be 100% honest about the situation.  

Blocking used games would be so stupid.  Almost everyone I know funds the purchase of new games by selling the used game that they no longer play.  I can guarantee that the people I know, including myself would buy far fewer new games if we couldn't sell our used ones.  Also, again, people that I know tend to take more chances on games that get iffy reviews figuring that if they don't like the game, they can sell it to get most of their money back.  Anyone who thinks that used game sales is bad for the industry hasn't thought it through.

Having a video game system that blocks used games is no different than a DVD or Blu Ray player that blocks used movies.  Think about how many fewer movies would be sold if people couldn't rent them.  I personally rent tons of them that I would never buy if they didn't allow rentals.


People that don't buy new games aren't helping MSFT or Sony out anyways.  They aren't making money off of them.  As I said a few people will complain but they will buy them anyways.  

Also used movies arent sold next to New movies like they are with games.    People dont buy a movie and then take it back 2 hours.  Doesn't work that way.

You didn't get my point at all....  I DO buy new games, and a lot of them.  If I am unable to sell my used games, I would be buying far fewer new games.  Also, myself and I'm sure many others would no longer take as many chances on games as we wouldn't want to get stuck with a $60 game that we're not going to play.   So, by having people buy used games, it does help MS and Sony etc out as I'm able to purchase more new games from them that I wouldn't be able to otherwise.  Anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't know the buying public very well.  It's really very simply, you just need to open your mind for a minute.

Mark my words, if a new system comes out with $60 new games that does not allow used game to be played, less systems and less games will be sold.

Why would anyone want to pay $60 for a physical copy of a game that isn't theirs to sell.  Show me anything else similar where you buy a physical copy that you can't sell...books, movies, music cd's, records, toys, board games etc...  It would be completely stupid.  I've bought every video game system released at launch, but the first one that blocks used games will be the first that I don't buy ever.  The only exception would be for a system that is download only for the games and the games are priced from $0-$15....like the iPad.....I don't care how good the game is, I would never spend $60 for an iPad game, so why would I for any other system?



Stop hating and start playing.

Jaywood2010 on 16 April 2013
BuckStud said:
JayWood2010 said:
BuckStud said:
JayWood2010 said:
JoeTheBro said:
You could just make bigger and longer games. Then again they already do.


I said it before but I hope PS4 and NeXbox blocks used games.  As long as they both make the commitement together their shouldnt be a backlash from the community.  Sony has been shady about the situation and Microsoft hasn't said anything yet but I'm hoping if one does it the other does it as well or it will be useless.  I'd like them to be 100% honest about the situation.  

Blocking used games would be so stupid.  Almost everyone I know funds the purchase of new games by selling the used game that they no longer play.  I can guarantee that the people I know, including myself would buy far fewer new games if we couldn't sell our used ones.  Also, again, people that I know tend to take more chances on games that get iffy reviews figuring that if they don't like the game, they can sell it to get most of their money back.  Anyone who thinks that used game sales is bad for the industry hasn't thought it through.

Having a video game system that blocks used games is no different than a DVD or Blu Ray player that blocks used movies.  Think about how many fewer movies would be sold if people couldn't rent them.  I personally rent tons of them that I would never buy if they didn't allow rentals.


People that don't buy new games aren't helping MSFT or Sony out anyways.  They aren't making money off of them.  As I said a few people will complain but they will buy them anyways.  

Also used movies arent sold next to New movies like they are with games.    People dont buy a movie and then take it back 2 hours.  Doesn't work that way.

You didn't get my point at all....  I DO buy new games, and a lot of them.  If I am unable to sell my used games, I would be buying far fewer new games.  Also, myself and I'm sure many others would no longer take as many chances on games as we wouldn't want to get stuck with a $60 game that we're not going to play.   So, by having people buy used games, it does help MS and Sony etc out as I'm able to purchase more new games from them that I wouldn't be able to otherwise.  Anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't know the buying public very well.  It's really very simply, you just need to open your mind for a minute.

Mark my words, if a new system comes out with $60 new games that does not allow used game to be played, less systems and less games will be sold.

Why would anyone want to pay $60 for a physical copy of a game that isn't theirs to sell.  Show me anything else similar where you buy a physical copy that you can't sell...books, movies, music cd's, records, toys, board games etc...  It would be completely stupid.  I've bought every video game system released at launch, but the first one that blocks used games will be the first that I don't buy ever.  The only exception would be for a system that is download only for the games and the games are priced from $0-$15....like the iPad.....I don't care how good the game is, I would never spend $60 for an iPad game, so why would I for any other system?


I do understand your point but the problem lays with the retailers like gamestop selling used beside of new.  Many customers buy a game and sell the game 24 hours later.  That means used copies are being sold within the 1st week and the developer gets no money from that.  That is not fair to the developers that put hard work into it.  While i get what you are saying it does not justify used game sells when a game is brand new in the first place.  The only other industry that i know that does this is the car industry but they dont sell brand new cars used either.  people dont buy a car and then take it back 24 hours later




       

Desertghost on 16 April 2013
NiKKoM said:
Fine... next game instead of buying it second hand i'll pirate it.. you win BethesdaIt

Used games and pirated games actually affects them in the exact same way, they don't get a cent from both. Your statement is irrelevant.



Desertghost on 16 April 2013
JayWood2010 said:
BuckStud said:
JayWood2010 said:
BuckStud said:
JayWood2010 said:
JoeTheBro said:
You could just make bigger and longer games. Then again they already do.


I said it before but I hope PS4 and NeXbox blocks used games.  As long as they both make the commitement together their shouldnt be a backlash from the community.  Sony has been shady about the situation and Microsoft hasn't said anything yet but I'm hoping if one does it the other does it as well or it will be useless.  I'd like them to be 100% honest about the situation.  

Blocking used games would be so stupid.  Almost everyone I know funds the purchase of new games by selling the used game that they no longer play.  I can guarantee that the people I know, including myself would buy far fewer new games if we couldn't sell our used ones.  Also, again, people that I know tend to take more chances on games that get iffy reviews figuring that if they don't like the game, they can sell it to get most of their money back.  Anyone who thinks that used game sales is bad for the industry hasn't thought it through.

Having a video game system that blocks used games is no different than a DVD or Blu Ray player that blocks used movies.  Think about how many fewer movies would be sold if people couldn't rent them.  I personally rent tons of them that I would never buy if they didn't allow rentals.


People that don't buy new games aren't helping MSFT or Sony out anyways.  They aren't making money off of them.  As I said a few people will complain but they will buy them anyways.  

Also used movies arent sold next to New movies like they are with games.    People dont buy a movie and then take it back 2 hours.  Doesn't work that way.

You didn't get my point at all....  I DO buy new games, and a lot of them.  If I am unable to sell my used games, I would be buying far fewer new games.  Also, myself and I'm sure many others would no longer take as many chances on games as we wouldn't want to get stuck with a $60 game that we're not going to play.   So, by having people buy used games, it does help MS and Sony etc out as I'm able to purchase more new games from them that I wouldn't be able to otherwise.  Anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't know the buying public very well.  It's really very simply, you just need to open your mind for a minute.

Mark my words, if a new system comes out with $60 new games that does not allow used game to be played, less systems and less games will be sold.

Why would anyone want to pay $60 for a physical copy of a game that isn't theirs to sell.  Show me anything else similar where you buy a physical copy that you can't sell...books, movies, music cd's, records, toys, board games etc...  It would be completely stupid.  I've bought every video game system released at launch, but the first one that blocks used games will be the first that I don't buy ever.  The only exception would be for a system that is download only for the games and the games are priced from $0-$15....like the iPad.....I don't care how good the game is, I would never spend $60 for an iPad game, so why would I for any other system?

 

"Show me anything else similar where you buy a physical copy that you can't sell...books, movies, music cd's, records, toys, board games etc... it would be completely stupid.

PC games.

There, do I get something?