By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Shovelware moves consoles. How Sony can sell more PS Vitas.

Shovelware is on every system really and as for Vita, just check out the PS Mobile storefront. They pop out an average of about 2 games a week and are growing steadily. It's iOS/Android quality mobile gaming software. In fact, add in minis, the back catalog of PS1 and PSP games and the Vita is a treasure trove of titles from A-Z. But they are on the digital front and cater to current owners, not potential customers.

The Vita doesn't have the younger audience presence to compete with Nintendo's handheld, not to mention the 3DS has DS backwards compatibility while Vita's is again, digital only. The Vita is a great system, every serious gamer should have one. It's software is great with plenty of 1st party support and indie devs are bombarding it right now. Some big 3rd party love is there but yeah they are slow about it, but Japan titles are just starting to shift focus from PSP to Vita and that will prime larger 3rd parties to launch games to take advantage of the increasing install base.

As for shovelware, I suppose that means casual appeal. What can a random person see on the store shelves, probably as a gift decision, that would make them buy the console. Again, Nintendo wins out. The Vita selling power depends more on consumer research and those buying for themselves. It is kind of an intimidating system compared to the easy carry clam shell 3DS. You look at a Vita and you probably think, I need some kind of case, despite scratch resistance and that everyone has an exposed screen smartphone, why can't a Vita be too?

For the Vita it is going to take big name games to attract consumers. Those who buy for themselves and those who are able to ask for one as a gift are going to need something big and identifiable like Uncharted, Assassins Creed, Call of Duty, etc. More of those is what is going to help it further. Those who buy a handheld as a gift as a result of shovelware usually don't know what they are buying and usually do so for those too young to know what is out there. Sure having that consumer power can increase the install base and push software, but it doesn't always translate to strong 3rd party software support or software tie ratios. When looking at Vita's sales statistics you have to take into account their digital presence, which was stated to be 30% of sales, and Ubisoft said their games had 15% digital and Assassins creed is the 3rd biggest selling Vita title.

As an aside, I would just like to mention how stale and fallacious the arguments of console on the go gaming and 1st party support waning are.



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

Around the Network
Viktor said:
You really should take a look at what games actually sell. In Japan for example a praised quality game like Luigi´s Mansion has been number one for weeks now. PSVs problem is that Sony isn´t supporting the system decently anymore, they had a decent start but after that their support really slowed down considerably. Actually that´s no surprise since they shut down 3 of their own studios that worked on PSV titles last year, for example Studio Liverpool, the guys responsible for the Wipeout series.

The release schedule of 1st and 2nd party software on PSV is really in a dire situation and that´s the bigger problem than shovelware no one cares about which is cheaply available on smartphones anyway.

Sony hasn't been supporting the Vita?  They've supported the console mostly when it first came out but they're still giving continuous support for the console since.

Uncharted, Wipeout 2048, Unit 13, Hot Shots Golf, Escape Plan, Hustle Kings, Little Deviants(garbage,) Modnation Racers, MLB 12 The Show, MLB 13 The Show, Motorstorm RC, Reality Fighters, Resistance, Gravity Rush, LBP Vita, When Vikings Attack, Call of Duty Black Ops Declassified, Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, Soul Sacrifice, Sly Cooper.  Games that are coming later this year are Epic Mickey 2, Ratchet and Clank Full Frontal Assault, Killzone, and Tearaway.

I went through the 3DS game list on Wiki there are 18 first and second party compared to the Vita titles which are 24 first and second party.  So if Sony isn't supporting the Vita, then Nintendo isn't supporting the 3DS. 

sethnintendo said:

PSP sold so well because of emulators. I'm sticking to this defense after seeing PSP's SW sales.  How else do explain a hand held that sold almost 80m in HW and doesn't even have one 10m seller?

I highly doubt PSV trumps 3DS in quality software.  Compare 3DS retail and eshop titles to PSV retail and eshop.  I believe 3DS trumps PSV.  PSV has some good games but apparently not too many people are noticing.

PSP games didn't sell because of piracy.  Compare sales of early released games to later games.  According to VGChartz, Chains of Olympus sold 3.09m, but then Ghost of Sparta which was released two years later on sold .83m.  Then Dissidia which sold 2.16m compared to Duodecim which sold .78m.  Coincidentally, these games were released in 2008 when a lot of Vita's had CFW, but it was during that period of time that Sony locked down that if you didn't have CFW you really couldn't get CFW.  If you look it up, some group tracked how many times through torrent sites Nintendo DS and PSP games were pirated.  Here's a chart that compares the games.  Dissidia was pirated over five million times, and that was back when the game had half a million less sales statistics than it does now.

Now that every PSP is able to be hacked, PSP3000 and PSP Go which once wasn't able to be hacked are even able to get CFW.  Those two were hacked when the source code was posted.  Remember when the Kevin Butler twitter retweeted the PSP code? 

And yes.  The Vita trumps 3DS in quality software.  It's all based on opinion, but most people don't own both consoles.  I think those few that actually own both consoles and have played a lot of games on each have far more weight to their opinions than "just a 3DS owner" or "just a Vita owner."  Whichever side of the camp you're on, if you haven't put in a great deal of time with both consoles, your opinion really doesn't haven't much weight to it.

Here's a picture of my two 3DS systems and my Vita.

 



RenCutypoison said:
NiKKoM said:
Neh.. Sony needs quality software titles aimed at girls, women and childeren.. Right now the entire Vita is aimed at young males who are also the people with the better smartphones, tablets and consoles making them actually just the people with no need to buy a Vita..


For having never seen a girl/women play a game categorized as such, I don't see your point. And for children there is Sly, CoD and little big planet.

games like nintendogs, animal crossing, brain age even new super mario bros and more are made with the thought to catter to female minds.. a lot of ads from nintendo there are women involved..  Nintendo knows they have a shot of selling their games and handhelds at that market.. They don't say it's for girls but when they design it they have them in their minds.. Sony is really lacking in that department and is hoping that young males are going to buy a Vita, next to their Galaxy S3, iPad Mini, iPod Touch, PS3, 360 and Macbook Pro..which is pretty dumb.. to be honest.. they need to expand their target audience..



 

Face the future.. Gamecenter ID: nikkom_nl (oh no he didn't!!) 

Player2 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
sethnintendo said:

PSP sold so well because of emulators. I'm sticking to this defense after seeing PSP's SW sales.  How else do explain a hand held that sold almost 80m in HW and doesn't even have one 10m seller?

I highly doubt PSV trumps 3DS in quality software.  Compare 3DS retail and eshop titles to PSV retail and eshop.  I believe 3DS trumps PSV.  PSV has some good games but apparently not too many people are noticing.

I'd argue no PSP game sold 10 million units because the PSP lacked killer apps capable of achieving those numbers. The only games we see achieving those numbers on handheld platforms have massive casual appeal.

Few console IPs even achieve 10 million sales. That's a dumb argument.

Multiple GT games have sold over 10M and the PSP game sold 3M. If it wasn't the killer app it should have been is Sony's fault for making a Gran Turismo game without a Gran Turismo mode.

I don't believe most Gran Turismo fans were excited about a portable game. Especially a lite version. Even if it was equal to home console games, I wouldn't anticipate 10 million sales.



Recently Completed
River City: Rival Showdown
for 3DS (3/5) - River City: Tokyo Rumble for 3DS (4/5) - Zelda: BotW for Wii U (5/5) - Zelda: BotW for Switch (5/5) - Zelda: Link's Awakening for Switch (4/5) - Rage 2 for X1X (4/5) - Rage for 360 (3/5) - Streets of Rage 4 for X1/PC (4/5) - Gears 5 for X1X (5/5) - Mortal Kombat 11 for X1X (5/5) - Doom 64 for N64 (emulator) (3/5) - Crackdown 3 for X1S/X1X (4/5) - Infinity Blade III - for iPad 4 (3/5) - Infinity Blade II - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Infinity Blade - for iPad 4 (4/5) - Wolfenstein: The Old Blood for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Origins for X1 (3/5) - Uncharted: Lost Legacy for PS4 (4/5) - EA UFC 3 for X1 (4/5) - Doom for X1 (4/5) - Titanfall 2 for X1 (4/5) - Super Mario 3D World for Wii U (4/5) - South Park: The Stick of Truth for X1 BC (4/5) - Call of Duty: WWII for X1 (4/5) -Wolfenstein II for X1 - (4/5) - Dead or Alive: Dimensions for 3DS (4/5) - Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite for X1 (3/5) - Halo Wars 2 for X1/PC (4/5) - Halo Wars: DE for X1 (4/5) - Tekken 7 for X1 (4/5) - Injustice 2 for X1 (4/5) - Yakuza 5 for PS3 (3/5) - Battlefield 1 (Campaign) for X1 (3/5) - Assassin's Creed: Syndicate for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare for X1 (4/5) - Call of Duty: MW Remastered for X1 (4/5) - Donkey Kong Country Returns for 3DS (4/5) - Forza Horizon 3 for X1 (5/5)

Chark said:

Shovelware is on every system really and as for Vita, just check out the PS Mobile storefront. They pop out an average of about 2 games a week and are growing steadily. It's iOS/Android quality mobile gaming software. In fact, add in minis, the back catalog of PS1 and PSP games and the Vita is a treasure trove of titles from A-Z. But they are on the digital front and cater to current owners, not potential customers.

The Vita doesn't have the younger audience presence to compete with Nintendo's handheld, not to mention the 3DS has DS backwards compatibility while Vita's is again, digital only. The Vita is a great system, every serious gamer should have one. It's software is great with plenty of 1st party support and indie devs are bombarding it right now. Some big 3rd party love is there but yeah they are slow about it, but Japan titles are just starting to shift focus from PSP to Vita and that will prime larger 3rd parties to launch games to take advantage of the increasing install base.

As for shovelware, I suppose that means casual appeal. What can a random person see on the store shelves, probably as a gift decision, that would make them buy the console. Again, Nintendo wins out. The Vita selling power depends more on consumer research and those buying for themselves. It is kind of an intimidating system compared to the easy carry clam shell 3DS. You look at a Vita and you probably think, I need some kind of case, despite scratch resistance and that everyone has an exposed screen smartphone, why can't a Vita be too?

For the Vita it is going to take big name games to attract consumers. Those who buy for themselves and those who are able to ask for one as a gift are going to need something big and identifiable like Uncharted, Assassins Creed, Call of Duty, etc. More of those is what is going to help it further. Those who buy a handheld as a gift as a result of shovelware usually don't know what they are buying and usually do so for those too young to know what is out there. Sure having that consumer power can increase the install base and push software, but it doesn't always translate to strong 3rd party software support or software tie ratios. When looking at Vita's sales statistics you have to take into account their digital presence, which was stated to be 30% of sales, and Ubisoft said their games had 15% digital and Assassins creed is the 3rd biggest selling Vita title.

As an aside, I would just like to mention how stale and fallacious the arguments of console on the go gaming and 1st party support waning are.

Wow, I'm surprised how much I can agree with this post. Great!

@OP: Every software sells hardware, even one of low quality (=shovelware). But high quality software usually sell more hardware, compared to low quality software of the same genre. So I agree, Sony should fund 3rd-party-studios, but they should go for the best quality with small budget. Small budget is good for starters, because it is less risky.

Regarding the quality, there is a catch: the genre is more influental then the quality. RPGs are niche-games (how much I as a RPG-fan would like that would be different). Arcade-racers, shooters or platformers reach a bigger audience. That should be a hint, on which software Vita should focus.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024

10 years greatest game event!

bets: [GTA6]

Around the Network
NiKKoM said:
RenCutypoison said:
NiKKoM said:
Neh.. Sony needs quality software titles aimed at girls, women and childeren.. Right now the entire Vita is aimed at young males who are also the people with the better smartphones, tablets and consoles making them actually just the people with no need to buy a Vita..


For having never seen a girl/women play a game categorized as such, I don't see your point. And for children there is Sly, CoD and little big planet.

games like nintendogs, animal crossing, brain age even new super mario bros and more are made with the thought to catter to female minds.. a lot of ads from nintendo there are women involved..  Nintendo knows they have a shot of selling their games and handhelds at that market.. They don't say it's for girls but when they design it they have them in their minds.. Sony is really lacking in that department and is  hoping that young males are going to buy a Vita, next to their Galaxy S3, iPad Mini, iPod Touch, PS3, 360 and Macbook Pro..which is pretty dumb.. to be honest.. they need to expand their target audience..


I saw as many dudes than girls playing nintendogs, wich is why we talk about the children market that is little to no sexuated. There are no games that actually targeted effeciently the girls market. 

Sony have their own tablets/smartphones that are directed to gamers (Simple design, almost retro, big computing performance VS bad real phone performance). Vita is meant to be buy as an accessory for the ps4 I think.



sethnintendo said:

PSP sold so well because of emulators. I'm sticking to this defense after seeing PSP's SW sales.  How else do explain a hand held that sold almost 80m in HW and doesn't even have one 10m seller?

I highly doubt PSV trumps 3DS in quality software.  Compare 3DS retail and eshop titles to PSV retail and eshop.  I believe 3DS trumps PSV.  PSV has some good games but apparently not too many people are noticing.


Gee. How about mother-fucking piracy? Like I've mentioned in the past, I don't know a single person who used emulators and every single owner I know never bought any psp games (just downloaded roms). Anecdotal evidence, I know, but people from online gaming communities tend to have a distorted version of what happens with the masses or the casuals. A few years ago, you could see at torrent sites thousounds upon thousands of seeders and leachers of single games (especially gow games). Also, ps consoles have always been about diversity. There's never been a huge seller (apart from gta:sa which wasn't even exclusive) even on ps2 and I'm pretty sure that didn't have emulators either. 

The reason psp was so popular was the novelty factor and the idea that you can have a device that plays music, videos/movies, and video games. Now smart phones and tablets can do all that, plus you only have to carry one device on you.

So, let's not attribute the psp's success to Ninty, shall we?

Now about the OP. I don't necessarily agree, but shovelware could help vita if they end up coming with a concept that catches people's attention, such as  brian trainer or nintedogs, though the lack of success of both games on 3ds suggests that the times that such games had a huge audience are over (there still might be something unique or perceived as so that can go maisntream). Smartphones have effected handheld SW and HW sales more than people care to admit. 



kupomogli said:

Sony hasn't been supporting the Vita?  They've supported the console mostly when it first came out but they're still giving continuous support for the console since.

Uncharted, Wipeout 2048, Unit 13, Hot Shots Golf, Escape Plan, Hustle Kings, Little Deviants(garbage,) Modnation Racers, MLB 12 The Show, MLB 13 The Show, Motorstorm RC, Reality Fighters, Resistance, Gravity Rush, LBP Vita, When Vikings Attack, Call of Duty Black Ops Declassified, Playstation All Stars Battle Royale, Soul Sacrifice, Sly Cooper.  Games that are coming later this year are Epic Mickey 2, Ratchet and Clank Full Frontal Assault, Killzone, and Tearaway.

I went through the 3DS game list on Wiki there are 18 first and second party compared to the Vita titles which are 24 first and second party.  So if Sony isn't supporting the Vita, then Nintendo isn't supporting the 3DS. 


I said it slowed down considerably compared to its start (last year), so It really makes little sense to start a list-war including launchtitles and other games launched last year, Because this actually proves my point. Also when talking about 1st and 2nd party titles it´s surprising to see titles like Call of Duty and Epic Mickey pop-up. You should calm down a bit because I didn´t say PSV wouldn´t get any Sony games this year, that there actually is a decline is undeniable and 3 Sony studios that worked on PSV titles that were closed by Sony is one reason. Also the abandonment of SuperBot the studio behind PSABR is a more recent example of 2nd party resources not beeing as great as last year.

In the matter of recent support it would have been more honest to actually talk about recently released and upcoming titles instead of including past years games and even launch titles. Also just to point out some details about Killzone and Tearaway. One was announced in 2011 the other in last years Gamescom, we alread are coming close to May but these games are still months away. So what I´m trying to say is what are the odds that Sony announces a considerably amount of 1st and 2nd party PSV games that actually will be released this year when Tearaway will be released by the end of the year in October? Of course quality is debatable but I´m also considering quantity so would you consider this years 1st and 2nd party lineup up to par or even better than last years Sony lineup for PSV?

Because right now there really needs a considerably amount of stealth announcements and releases of yet unknown titles this year from Sony for PSV to even come close to Sonys last years lineup. Therefore it reall seems to have declined considerably compared to 2012 in my opinion.



what sony needs to do is bring most of the japanese games over. The fact that namco doesnt want to bring the tales games is quite a blow. Sony should aproach these companies and publish the games. The vita needs software and its a waste not to bring software that actually already exists.



Mr Puggsly said:

I don't believe most Gran Turismo fans were excited about a portable game. Especially a lite version. Even if it was equal to home console games, I wouldn't anticipate 10 million sales.

Yes, the truth is that only Nintendo games and Monster Hunter (in Japan) sells on handhelds now that GTA is out of the equation.