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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Major Nelson: Official Statement on what was said yesterday (aka "always-on connection rumors"

Adinnieken said:
Dusk said:


http://playeressence.com/always-on-internet-connection-for-xbox-720-basically-confirmed-by-ms-exec/

 

Not sure who you are talking about but I was talking about Adam Orth as he is the one that stated this stuff on his twitter account. Although there is back and forth between Orth and Manveer and they said they were trolling each other (odd) but none the less, that is where my information was from.

Edit: ohhh, lol. Had to re-read my post. Right, The Workshop Experience. Either way, it was posted, and it was a quote. Althought the games mentioned were multi plat so there must have been some connection with MS.

Again, he neither confirms nor denies a feature in the Xbox 8.  He simply states he doesn't understand why, in this day and age, anyone would have a problem with an always on console.  Which, is different than always online.

Always ON means the device is always powered, even if on low power.  A cable box operates this way.  Most phones and tablets are never turned off, but rather maintain a low-power state until they're used.  Many people operate their computers and laptops in a low-power state for faster booting and quicker access.  Always ON is not a boogey man.  It just means the device will exist in a low-power state when the user "turns it off".  The PS4 will likely offer something similar.

Even Always Online is not the boogey man that people are attempting to make it out to be.  The Xbox 8 will have features that benefit from an always on, always connected device.  If the user doesn't use them, it's not going to be a major issue.  If the user does however, then it could offer very slick functionality.

Consider a world where someone doesn't have phone service, but instead has a phone line through Skype (VOIP) and thus uses Skype on all their connected devices.  Windows PCs, Tablets, Phones, etc.  That functionality would likewise be available for the Xbox 8 console too, giving people the abililty to easily hold a conversation from the couch.  Doesn't matter if it's video or voice only.

So, in that scenario, it'd be beneficial to have an always on, always connected device that way when a call came in the person could "answer" it.

Socery was not a multiplatform game.  It was a PS3 game.


Where are you getting Xbox 8 from? Yeah, I know what always on and always connected means, trust me lol, and yes I know many devices use this. As far as I'm concerned it's all conjecture, however if it is an always connected device this could alienate many gamers as many points have been made. I personally wouldn't be affected by this all that much as I live in Canada and have a pretty good internet connection, I didn't know this but apparently puts many US ISP's to shame (heh, tech savy Canadians(found out while playing The Old Republic)) and I hardly loose connection, but many will. I know of people that still use dial-up because it is all that they have available to them, or in other areas satellite internet which is great for downloads but still uses a phone line for uploads. The source of the problem is that with these inconsistant forms of internet, it might render the user to be unable to play the game they purchased on the system they purchased. This could be a very real issue if this is the approach that MS is taking. However with that said I can fully understand why they would go to such extremes since xbox live is/was hackable to give gold status and even steal games from the network. This is an ongoing issue that has only grown in the past few years and there aren't many ways to stop it. If I were in MS position I would likely do the same, but in doing so I would realize the down sides of this as well.

Once again, this is all unknown and based on rumors, so we won't really find out until the system is launched. Honestly I'm hoping for the best for the new MS console because competition in the gaming business is good. It encourages better games which results in a better gaming experience for the consumer, and really that's what it's all about right? Games for the gamers.



Gotta figure out how to set these up lol.

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gooch_destroyer said:

oh. I guess I didn't notice it on my friends xbox. I was thinking about an updated version of it.

I'm certain there will be an update to the interface.  I suspect there'll be one for the Xbox 360 as well before this year is out.  I suspect Microsoft wants Skype on those installed Xbox 360's, not just its next gen console.



Adinnieken said:
gooch_destroyer said:

oh. I guess I didn't notice it on my friends xbox. I was thinking about an updated version of it.

I'm certain there will be an update to the interface.  I suspect there'll be one for the Xbox 360 as well before this year is out.  I suspect Microsoft wants Skype on those installed Xbox 360's, not just its next gen console.


why skype? i know mircosoft bought them but still...they have cross-game chat.



gooch_destroyer said:
Adinnieken said:
gooch_destroyer said:

oh. I guess I didn't notice it on my friends xbox. I was thinking about an updated version of it.

I'm certain there will be an update to the interface.  I suspect there'll be one for the Xbox 360 as well before this year is out.  I suspect Microsoft wants Skype on those installed Xbox 360's, not just its next gen console.


why skype? i know mircosoft bought them but still...they have cross-game chat.

I think they want people to chat from their Xbox to people on other devices 



 

JoeTheBro said:
Adinnieken said:

It may have appeared he was being glib with a potential customer, but instead he was being sarcastic with a writer with BioWare that I'm sure he has a work relationship with.  The writer even has acknowledged that what was said between two people (i.e. a conversation) was taken out of context and not everything said was actually included in the original article.

DRM = Digital Rights Management.  DRM includes licensing.  Currently, any software purchased through Xbox LIVE includes two licenses.  A device license and a user license.  If content is downloaded to a console, it is licensed to that console, which allows any user on that device (at the time it was licensed) to play the game.  The user license allows that user to use the content regardless of the device, so long as they're connected to Xbox LIVE.  So if the device license and the user license do not match up, the user must be connected to Xbox LIVE. 

If Microsoft was to implement DRM from a retail disc standpoint, it could still generate a DRM license for the device and user all off-line, then confirm that license online. 

He also tweeted to an average joe @theonlyalexw

And thus the nature and problem with stating an opinion as a representative of a company. 

Regardless, he's not stating that the Xbox 8 will feature always on/always connected functionality.  He's asking why people have such a big problem with it.   

Having said that, he may not know the plans of the Xbox division.  They're not even in the same building.  He may only truly be able to speak about what Microsoft Games Studio is doing or for that matter what he is working on.  Even then he'd be covered under NDA, so he wouldn't be able to. 



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D-Minaj225 said:
gooch_destroyer said:
Adinnieken said:
gooch_destroyer said:

oh. I guess I didn't notice it on my friends xbox. I was thinking about an updated version of it.

I'm certain there will be an update to the interface.  I suspect there'll be one for the Xbox 360 as well before this year is out.  I suspect Microsoft wants Skype on those installed Xbox 360's, not just its next gen console.


why skype? i know mircosoft bought them but still...they have cross-game chat.

I think they want people to chat from their Xbox to people on other devices 


makes sense...



Adinnieken said:
Dusk said:


http://playeressence.com/always-on-internet-connection-for-xbox-720-basically-confirmed-by-ms-exec/

 

Not sure who you are talking about but I was talking about Adam Orth as he is the one that stated this stuff on his twitter account. Although there is back and forth between Orth and Manveer and they said they were trolling each other (odd) but none the less, that is where my information was from.

Edit: ohhh, lol. Had to re-read my post. Right, The Workshop Experience. Either way, it was posted, and it was a quote. Althought the games mentioned were multi plat so there must have been some connection with MS.

Again, he neither confirms nor denies a feature in the Xbox 8.  He simply states he doesn't understand why, in this day and age, anyone would have a problem with an always on console.  Which, is different than always online. 

Always ON means the device is always powered, even if on low power.  A cable box operates this way.  Most phones and tablets are never turned off, but rather maintain a low-power state until they're used.  Many people operate their computers and laptops in a low-power state for faster booting and quicker access.  Always ON is not a boogey man.  It just means the device will exist in a low-power state when the user "turns it off".  The PS4 will likely offer something similar.

Even Always Online is not the boogey man that people are attempting to make it out to be.  The Xbox 8 will have features that benefit from an always on, always connected device.  If the user doesn't use them, it's not going to be a major issue.  If the user does however, then it could offer very slick functionality.

Consider a world where someone doesn't have phone service, but instead has a phone line through Skype (VOIP) and thus uses Skype on all their connected devices.  Windows PCs, Tablets, Phones, etc.  That functionality would likewise be available for the Xbox 8 console too, giving people the abililty to easily hold a conversation from the couch.  Doesn't matter if it's video or voice only.

So, in that scenario, it'd be beneficial to have an always on, always connected device that way when a call came in the person could "answer" it.

Socery was not a multiplatform game.  It was a PS3 game.


It depends on how you read his tweets I guess. 

If you read his "electricity goes out, don't buy vacuum cleaner" or "mobile reception is spotty, don't buy phone" tweets, you could take that to mean the Next Box requires electricity to work. Most take it as it requires internet because of the almost 12 months of consistant rumors from multiple sources saying it will.

You can defend Microsoft or this practice if you like. But there is good reason for the rest of us to be worried at this point



richardhutnik said:
NobleTeam360 said:
Why would they confirm or deny something in a random press release.

You equate information by employee that is driving away customers with a "random press release"?  Any company that would do a press release like this would fire their customer relations management for putting that out.


Fine it's not random still why would they confirm it in a press release?



Dusk said:
Adinnieken said:
Dusk said:


http://playeressence.com/always-on-internet-connection-for-xbox-720-basically-confirmed-by-ms-exec/

 

Not sure who you are talking about but I was talking about Adam Orth as he is the one that stated this stuff on his twitter account. Although there is back and forth between Orth and Manveer and they said they were trolling each other (odd) but none the less, that is where my information was from.

Edit: ohhh, lol. Had to re-read my post. Right, The Workshop Experience. Either way, it was posted, and it was a quote. Althought the games mentioned were multi plat so there must have been some connection with MS.

Again, he neither confirms nor denies a feature in the Xbox 8.  He simply states he doesn't understand why, in this day and age, anyone would have a problem with an always on console.  Which, is different than always online.

Always ON means the device is always powered, even if on low power.  A cable box operates this way.  Most phones and tablets are never turned off, but rather maintain a low-power state until they're used.  Many people operate their computers and laptops in a low-power state for faster booting and quicker access.  Always ON is not a boogey man.  It just means the device will exist in a low-power state when the user "turns it off".  The PS4 will likely offer something similar.

Even Always Online is not the boogey man that people are attempting to make it out to be.  The Xbox 8 will have features that benefit from an always on, always connected device.  If the user doesn't use them, it's not going to be a major issue.  If the user does however, then it could offer very slick functionality.

Consider a world where someone doesn't have phone service, but instead has a phone line through Skype (VOIP) and thus uses Skype on all their connected devices.  Windows PCs, Tablets, Phones, etc.  That functionality would likewise be available for the Xbox 8 console too, giving people the abililty to easily hold a conversation from the couch.  Doesn't matter if it's video or voice only.

So, in that scenario, it'd be beneficial to have an always on, always connected device that way when a call came in the person could "answer" it.

Socery was not a multiplatform game.  It was a PS3 game.


Where are you getting Xbox 8 from? Yeah, I know what always on and always connected means, trust me lol, and yes I know many devices use this. As far as I'm concerned it's all conjecture, however if it is an always connected device this could alienate many gamers as many points have been made. I personally wouldn't be affected by this all that much as I live in Canada and have a pretty good internet connection, I didn't know this but apparently puts many US ISP's to shame (heh, tech savy Canadians(found out while playing The Old Republic)) and I hardly loose connection, but many will. I know of people that still use dial-up because it is all that they have available to them, or in other areas satellite internet which is great for downloads but still uses a phone line for uploads. The source of the problem is that with these inconsistant forms of internet, it might render the user to be unable to play the game they purchased on the system they purchased. This could be a very real issue if this is the approach that MS is taking. However with that said I can fully understand why they would go to such extremes since xbox live is/was hackable to give gold status and even steal games from the network. This is an ongoing issue that has only grown in the past few years and there aren't many ways to stop it. If I were in MS position I would likely do the same, but in doing so I would realize the down sides of this as well.

Once again, this is all unknown and based on rumors, so we won't really find out until the system is launched. Honestly I'm hoping for the best for the new MS console because competition in the gaming business is good. It encourages better games which results in a better gaming experience for the consumer, and really that's what it's all about right? Games for the gamers.

First, Xbox LIVE has never supported dial-up Internet.  So no one you know has ever had an Xbox and used dial-up.  Nor can you use a PS3 with dial-up.  It also isn't supported.

Second, if you don't have an Internet connection, you wouldn't be able to take advantage of those connected features, would you?  It would exist off-line.  Just as the Xbox 360 and Xbox functioned off-line.

Third, your assumption is based on unconfirmed rumor.  So far, every developer that is currently working on an Xbox 8 game, that has come forward anonymously, has refuted the claims made.  Even Kotaku acknowledged this.  So you have people saying that's how it works, and then you have developers who are actually working on games for the system, saying that isn't true.  Who do you want to believe?  An anonymous source that isn't working on a game for the system, or a developer that IS working on a game for the system?

I have this feeling that Microsoft is aware of the potential clientèle of the console.  I'm sure they've already looked at what functionality will be lost if the console isn't online. 

Microsoft is expanding the capabilities of its console with the next Xbox.  Expanding the capabilities doesn't mean they won't be delivering the basic functionality.  That would be self-defeating.  Likewise, they're not going to handicap the device so people who want to take advantage of new features can't fully appreciate them. 



Subie_Greg said:


It depends on how you read his tweets I guess. 

If you read his "electricity goes out, don't buy vacuum cleaner" or "mobile reception is spotty, don't buy phone" tweets, you could take that to mean the Next Box requires electricity to work. Most take it as it requires internet because of the almost 12 months of consistant rumors from multiple sources saying it will.

You can defend Microsoft or this practice if you like. But there is good reason for the rest of us to be worried at this point

This is your rumor:

"It's not clear if that means that the system wouldn't play used games or how such a set-up would work. Obvious approaches—I'm theorizing here—like linking a copy of a game to a specific Xbox Live account could seemingly be foiled by used-game owners who would keep their system offline. My source wasn't sure how Microsoft intended to implement any anti-used game system in the new machine." - Stephen Totilo - Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/5879202/sources-the-next-xbox-will-play-blu+ray-may-not-play-used-games-and-will-introduce-kinect-2

That's the source of your rumor.  Stephen Totilo speculating on how DRM might be implemented.

Now to refute the Always on = Always connected to the Internet, let's look at this image:

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/06/16/rumor-xbox-720-doc-leak/

Very top of the page, under Xbox 360 Limitations, 4 down.

"Can't run Always On/low power states."

So regardless of what Adam said, any reference that Microsoft makes to "Always On" is a reference to operating in a low power state.  It has NOTHING to do with being always connected.

There.

You have a semi-official Microsoft document describing the feature "Always On" and what it means.  And if you need help figuring out how it's a semi-official document, a firm representing Microsoft issued the removal order for the site hosting the original document.