1.6x Is the GPU speed, it only goes from 550 to 860 or something, which is about a 60% Jump. I don't know how large the CPU jump is, but apparently the CPU used in the PS3 is a modified version of the CPU used in AMD's High End Laptop lineup. However Laptop CPU in a home console? That's probably done to cut power useage because I hear the original PS3's used 200W to run them, and that's more then a mini-fridge.

PS4 gets rid of the bottleneck that the PS3 had with a strong GPU and 3x more VRAM, but like I said before the GPU is only 9x more powerful then PS3's and the VRAM is only 3x more. It's not going to make the PS3 tens of times more faster if it only directly increases the bottleneck drawback 9x.

Theoretically PS4 can be up to 9x more powerful, but realistically things like the slow GPU speed, weak CPU's, and small upgrades in PS3's other bottlenecks, like VRAM, PS4 is only going to be 6-9x more powerful.

Oh so now you're saying 9-10x faster instead of 10-15x? Why can't you admit you were wrong before? Is it so hard?

PS4's GPU Speed is only 60% faster then PS3's if anything a low clock will set PS4 back, not help it excell. RAM & RAM speed will only help with load times, and allow more objects on screen (Sony has shown us that million particles demo to show this off), and make games work at 60FPS more smoothly. However a 16x jump in RAM is excessive, there will be other bottlenecks (Like GPU/CPU performance) which will mean that the PS4 will never use all of its RAM, even in a game like Mac while attempts to put as many objects on screen at once.

Anyway, I won't argue with you anymore, you never admit that you're wrong when you are, and that's a terrible quality to have. At the very most PS4 is 9x more powerful then the PS3, but with things like weak CPU's and slow GPU speeds, it's probably a bit less. While 6-9x is a big number, when you consider that you need 4x more power to run PS3 games in 1080p at 60 FPS, then there isn't much of a jump to PS4.

But who cares? PS3 was a $600 system at launch, all a lower end PS4 means is that it will be more affordable on day 1, and then the jump to the 9th gen will be bigger.

Uhm... are serious man? That's just the core clockspeed, it say's nothing about processing power, PS3 is using 8 year old technology. I think you should read into some facts about computer technology before posting this kind of nonsense.

PS3 gpu processing power: 200 GFLOPS

PS4 gpu processing power: 1860 GFLOPS

That's over 9x. And just 3x more VRam? Ps3 had 256mb fixed amount of ram at 22 gb/s. Ps4 will have 8000mb shared ram at 176gb/s, they could use as much of that as Vram as they want. Let's say 5000mb of that for vram. That's 20 times the amount of Vram the PS3 had at much higher speeds, and close to the amount that Nvidia's $1000 Titan card has.

And it's an 8 core cpu based on amd's new Jaguar core, even at 1,6ghz that's about equal to a 2ghz cpu from amd's current line-up. Or a quad-core running over 4ghz, that's not that bad either.

Well.....whatever.

I do admit when I'm wrong BTW, I've been wrong a few times before. Best example was I said that only 1 PS3 game would ever break 10 million, and GT5 will never come close.

So if there is a stark contrast, I would argue that I can admit when I'm wrong, when you kinda just back away. I mean in this thread, not only will you not admit you're wrong, you won't even explain why you think it is (You mentioned that it's not because of RAM alone, but I still haven't heard you mention anything else). I wouldn't mind that you don't say you're wrong, I know you have a bit too much of an ego to even consider something like that, but I would settle with "I don't know", or "I'm not convinced."

Either way, next time just don't try to make me look dumb, or talk down to me like you did earlier. Set a good example for Sony and PC fans (except I think Sony fans need a good example more). That's all I ask, and I leave here happy.

If you look at my very first post on this thread, I do mention the GPU processing power (I also mention that the demo was played on a PC with around 6,000 GFLOPS, or on a processor 3x as powerful as PS4's). Here I'll quote it for you

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=5247550

I'm arguing that the PS4 is at most 9x more powerful then the PS3, mostly because of the GPU Processing power and increased RAM. It can't be more then 9x more powerful because with the sole exception for RAM, none of the components increase by anything greater then 9x, with some aspects like the Clock Speed, and GPU Bandwidth (This was a bottleneck for PS3) increasing by as little as 1.6 and 3x.

VRAM =/= RAM, PS4 has about 176GB/s VRam Bandwidth, and the PS3 has 22.4GB/s, which is about an 8x increase (I said 3x by accident just there.

As for the CPU, it's not bad, but it's still a CPU designed for laptop performance, not PC Tower performance. PS3 also had 7 CPU's with 3.2Ghz per core, which isn't that much different then PS4's. I'm not sure PS4's CPU's capabilities, but PS3's CPU's do 25GFlops and double precision. I think the AMD CPU does between 60-90 GFlops, so the CPU jump is in the range of 2.5-3.5x more powerful.

Again games are very gpu dependend these day's and so the gpu will be the most important factor in determing how much faster it is. If a game runs 9x faster because of the gpu, than the system is 9x faster in that application. And games are the playstation's main application. Also this is only raw processing power, PS4's gpu is based on much newer technology and uses much more efficient instruction sets, so the difference in speed will be bigger in a real world scenario.

Also the Cell in PS3 is not ''7 cpu's'', it's one cpu with one PPE and seven SPE's from witch one is turned off. Only the PPE can be seen as an actual cpu core though, the rest are supporting processing units and can only be used for a very limited amount of different tasks. The PPE has to manage those SPE's, PS4's 8 cores can all be used seperatly and are ''true'' cpu cores.

Also you fail yet again to count in the advantages of the PS4 one chip design, drastically improving data flow. With PS3 all comunication between cpu amd gpu had to pass over the motherboard, now it's all on one chip.

But since you clearly don't know what you're talking about, we are done discussing here.

That I agree with this.

So we can agree that PS4 is about 9x as powerful as the PS3?

Also that explains the CPU situation, I said before how big the jump was, I only said it probably wan't too large considering it's a Laptop CPU in the PS4. So the jump is what 5x (You said the new CPU is comparable to a Quad core-4.0GHz, PS3 had a 3.2Ghz single core). Still my arguement is that the CPU's performance won't make the PS4 more then 9x more powerful, if anything it would bring it down a bit.

Hey, man, if you read my posts, I never once contested anything you said. I'm only trying to explain to CGI-Quality that if the GPU performance is 9x PS3's power. all all the other jumps are 9x or less, then the PS4 is not going to be more 9x as powerful (I was arguing 6-9x because of other slower, but I'm not too computer oriented, so I won't argue 9x). You seem to agree on me with this.

So what's with the negative attitude?

Do you think it's about 9x as powerful, or slightly less? or slightly more?

Michael-5, you misunderstood what makes up the total power of a GPU there for a while, but all along your logic behind the power of the PS4 was right (for example that the extra 4GB RAM ain't there to improve graphics, but it adds potential for bigger levels with more content etc).

Yes, 9x PS3 is the best case scenario (except for a few games like Skyrim that was memory constrained on the PS3, but this time around the PS4 instead has a comparably weaker CPU so it roughly evens out).

Also what these other guys forgot to tell you is that in exclusive games PS3 had the advantage of the Cell, since they could use some graphical tricks through the Cell CPU (like AA), tricks that usually are processed through the GPU.

So bottom line is: in multiplatform games PS4 is 9x powerful than the PS4 but for the top-op-the-line exlusives (Santa Monica, Naught Dogs) it will be less than 9x powerful than PS4.

First, GPU renders the graphics (except with the PS3 since some GPU tasks were done on the CPU and thus freeing up resources for the GPU with the end result that exclsuives looked better than X360 xclusives). PS4 GPU is 9 faster than the PS3 GPU. That's the basis.

Then I look at possible bottlenecks.

RAM: In PS3 a bottleneck in some cases.

CPU: In PS4 bottleneck in some cases.

Memory bandwith: about equally proportioned towards their respective GPUs.

So all in all, for most multiplatform games the increase in available rendering power will correspond well to the incrase in raw GPU power ( x9).

Yes, yes. Correct.

But I'm ever ever only interested in advancements in gaming power and in these discussions that's almost an unspoken premise - nearly everyone assumes we're talking gaming power, for example when somebody says Wii U = PS360 and so on.

But yes, If I were to estimate the total power increase of PS4 versus PS3 I would agree with you (x10 increase or more).

Microsoft sure will make a big deal out of all its resources in the Nextbox that are available to non-gaming tasks (multitasking, living room control device, social media and whatnot) to convince us how much stronger and better it is than the X360.