There is an old trick in politics where you ask a question, speculate about something, or make a statment to get an idea out there (not because you believe it). Now I don't know why these developers are doubting Super Smash Bros considering most "core" Wii games have outsold their Gamecube counterparts, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they had PS3 projects comming up.

RolStoppable said: Dodece said: While I agree with the premise hardcore games have had at best a checkered past on the console, and if you remove Nintendo from the equation the light of hope vanishes from the room. Call them Hardcore, Mature, or Advanced. Whatever the name you choose they do not perform well. Their casual brethren are gold mines, while they are money pits. That said I do not agree with the game being sighted for demonstration purposes. First it is a franchise with name brand recognition. We all know that improves sales regardless of quality. The next Final Fantasy can be utter garbage and sell over two million copies on name alone. Second a strong lack of competition on its respective console will only increase sales. Red Steel sold so well on the Wii thanks to absolutely no competition in its genre and a weak library to contend with at the time. A great game with little competition will do well. The third reason its a bad game to sight for this phenomena, and it is blatantly obvious. Smash Brothers as a game and as a franchise was never a hardcore or mature game to begin with. This is a old school casual game. I know some don't want to even think they are hyped about a casual game, but casual is not a four letter word synonymous with a bowel movement. This is a game that anyone can play. This is a fast paced button masher with simple controls that are quickly picked up, and thanks to the frantic nature of the battle it could make your retarded cousin look like a idiot savant on occasion. Having skill is a good thing, and the game might even support it, but its hardly a requirement to play it and have fun. The game will do exceedingly well on par with Mario Party, because it is basically Mario Party version of a fighting game. That means it is exactly what Wii owners want for their console. I can't imagine this game selling less then three million copies in its first month of sales. Now if that were to happen it would be akin to an atom bomb going off in the developers ranks. They will assume only the most ultra casual game on the platform is a safe bet. Rather then even remotely trying to push that envelope. Why did you have to write four paragraphs? If you really know what you want to say, you can form much simpler sentences and get your point much better across in much less words. Here's an example how you could have written your post: "The Wii is a casual system and it's well known that hardcore, mature (or whatever you want to call them) games don't sell well on the system. SSBB is going to sell millions because it has the brandname, no competition and most important it's a casual game, which is exactly what the Wii's userbase demands." The way you write your posts you are confusing people and they actually start to think that you make sense and have a valid opinion that isn't just based on cherrypicking numbers and fanboyism.

Rol it is just Dodece's writing style. He writes responses that are longer than he needs to make his point and sort of drowns the clarity of what he is saying. Of course JL also writes innanely long posts as well. It is all a matter of style.

Basically instead of writing  "we’re sorry you voted against building the new school", Dodece chooses to write "it is a matter of deep regret to us that you cast a negative vote on the appropriation of funds for construction of the new school".

ItsaMii said: RolStoppable said: Dodece said: yadda, yadda, yadda ... Why did you have to write four paragraphs? If you really know what you want to say, you can form much simpler sentences and get your point much better across in much less words. Here's an example how you could have written your post: "The Wii is a casual system and it's well known that hardcore, mature (or whatever you want to call them) games don't sell well on the system. SSBB is going to sell millions because it has the brandname, no competition and most important it's a casual game, which is exactly what the Wii's userbase demands." The way you write your posts you are confusing people and they actually start to think that you make sense and have a valid opinion that isn't just based on cherrypicking numbers and fanboyism.  That is called pedantism. It is used to make people think that you know a lot more than you actually do.

Works well with me, don't you think. I don't know much about anything and still like show myself as an expert by giving answers that doesn't lead anywhere. And on top of that, i even contradict myself in the same sentence by saying it being another option, so i can't be wrong. But, even despite "playing safe", if i turn out being wrong, i use another politicans trick (in reference what Happy Squrriel posted) and say english isn't my native langue, how could i have had been able to post what i really mean and blame you for putting words in my mouth and misunderstanding my words, just like the politicans say after viewing themselves as an expert You're twisting my words, i never said that - i'm not an expert, how would i have known. Please. Carry on. Nothing to see here.

This also means the Wii is out of the “console war”. It has its own market distinctly different from its competitors, whom must fight amongst themselves for their own top spot. Both Microsoft and Sony are making wooing noises to the casual market but they’ll have a hard time stealing customers from the big N.

 I'm probably going to get flamed for actually daring to agree with a lot of what "whomever it was", said in this paragraph.

 I'll first state however that I disagree with the first sentance as a) the Wii is a console and b) it's engaged in a competition (read - 'war' if you want to be all dramatical about it) for sales with the other consoles in the 'overall' entertainment marketplace.

 However, lets face it but currently the Wii is not competing head on with the PS3 or X360. It's priced to appeal for a different market, it's not engaged in the "entertainment hub/media centre" battle between MS/Sony, and it isn't engaged in a battle about "which console throws around the most polys at HD" either. By and large, the people who bought the Wii are not the same type of consumer as those who bought the PS3 and X360 - hence the second sentence is factually correct.

 If you want any more proof of this fact look at the console specific press, do Wii magazines get in a frenzy about a FPS? No. Do PS3 and X360 magazines get into a frenzy about a new casual title? No.

 Now over time this all could change - if/when Wii gets more 'hard core' games and when PS3 and X360 get more 'casual' games. When this happens in the next 2-3 years there will be more cross over in terms of competition between all 3 consoles, but even then all 3 consoles will not be direct competiton with each other.

 Finally, does anyone really disagree with the final sentence? 

I do agree also with the premise that hardcore games won't currently sell as well to the existing Wii demographic as casual titles. For further evidence, look to the DS - Brain Train (a casual title) sells multi millions, Metriod Prime (a more hardcore title) sells far, far less (but was highly praised by the press). I know, someone will point out that handhelds are different from "proper" consoles, but the Nintendo brand, whatever the product type, appeals to the more casual market so I think the comparison has some merit.

Dodece is living proof that knowing how to write well doesn't mean knowing what you're talking about. I used to appreciate his posts, but lately he's just losing it, and doesn't make much sense anymore.

It's especially embarassing when he repeats arguments which have long ago been dismantled.

On topic: This alleged Japanese dev must be having some problem with his thinking, his argument doesn't make any sense. Look at this part:

I’d say we may see a promising start with the usual drop-off over the next few months and sales figures that would make anyone proud but that are still lower than expected

So the start is promising, and the drop-off is normal, but somehow sales are lower than expected? How does that work really?

 

The Wii is absolutely competing head-on with both the 360 and the PS3.  Even more so in Japan.  

Tell Capcom that they aren't competing head-on and they'll laugh at you and point to Monster Hunter 3.  Their BIGGEST Japanese franchise was canceled for the PS3 in favor of the Wii.

Tell Namco that they aren't competing head-on and they'll laugh at you and point to the flop that was Eternal Sonata and their 5 RPGs on the Wii for their zero announced on the PS3 and 360 RPGs.  

Tell Square Enix that they aren't competing head-on and they'll laugh at you and point to the DS, which started against the PSP with the exact same sentiments.  They'll point at Dragon Quest Swords which is the best selling 3rd party home console game in Japan this generation.

Tell Koei that they aren't competing head-on and they'll cry while pointing to the ridiculous flop that was Dynasty Warriors 6.  A once nearly 2 million selling franchise reduced to under half a million between 2 consoles.  

The Japanese market is absolutely a direct competition between the Wii, PS3, and Xbox 360, and the Wii is slaughtering the other 2.

You guys are harping on Dodece for no reason here. That post, is not bad at all.

As far as I am concerned, there are going to be haters simply because it is a Nintendo console. Who could be more loved and more hated at the same time?

Anyone remeber the developers that said they would not make Playstation 2 games because it was too hard to develop for? What happened? They started making Playstation 2 games.

Market means everything.

I wish I had the Wii Bingo chart =[

naznatips wins again. Suffice to say that in Japan:

- the 360 is a niche console with a good attach rate

- the PS3 is following PSP's footsteps of selling some hardware but little software, due to Blu-Ray functionality going by all the evidence we've got.

Then we have the Wii, which is the only console which has good software sales. No matter what some anonymous dev says, it's pretty obvious that the only relevant console in Japan is the Wii.

GhaudePhaede010 said: You guys are harping on Dodece for no reason here. That post, is not bad at all.

It certainly is, since it repeats the widespread myth of "omg 3rd parties don't make money on the Wii". I have yet to see a single 3rd party game which deserved more sales than it got on the Wii. I haven't seen any reply to this from the people who constantly repeat this argument.

 

I hope Koei makes a Romane of the Three Kingdoms Wii. Since Koei has been mentioned.

I mean Romance 11's graphics arn't that far off from Romance 3 or Age of Empires 2 in most places.