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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The real reason why 3rd party games do not sell well on Nintendo hardware

Pristine20 on 02 March 2013
fordy said:
Pristine20 said:
fordy said:
Pristine20 said:
fordy said:
Pristine20 said:
fordy said:
Pristine20 said:


Dude, I don't care whether 3rd parties sell on Nintendo systems or not. What irks me is when people claim Nintendo games are holy grail and the rest of us are unevolved peasants for not liking them and preferring our graphics, QTE or whatever it is they chose to condemn on any given day.

yes, some of us like our graphics, our FPS games, our "movie" games and what-have-you. Guess I don't deserve to play games then lmao.

It really depends on what one considers a game and what one considers an "interactive movie".


If you control the outcomes, it's a game IMO. The more important thing than the classification is that it's entertainment. That's ultimately why we play gemes. If the quasi-game is entertaining, it has served it's purpose.

I didn't like Heavy Rain btw and dont like QTE and prefer Ninja Gaiden to God of War for that very reason. However, I know people that do like the mechanic so you  would never hear me bashing it. It's not for you, move on. Claiming others dont know what "games" are or what-have-you is just unnecessary


I once saw a game called "Who wants to be a Millionaire" that played on DVD players. Essentially it was like a DVD menu and it took you to another movie clip depending on which one you took.

Would that be classed as a game?

Yes, If "Imagine: babiez" is a game, I don't see why not.


So why aren't we hearing crap about why the DVD player is suffering because of its lack of games?


Eh....because it's not a dedicated gaming machine/device? Who wants to be a millionaire was also on ps2...just so you know.


It could be on the Atari 2600 for all I care...

The point is, if Nintendo owners buy a Nintendo console knowing that ther eiwll be lack of 3rd party support, they're most likely doing so for something OTHER THAN 3rd party support...


So that was your point all along? That's great if most ninty console purchasers realize what you said because on most forums I frequent, they seem to be complaining about 3rd parties ignoring nintendo. Shouldn't they cease to care since they should've known that was coming?

It's a catch-22 rreally, on one hand, you hear stuff like nintendo titles are holy grail while everything else is just crap with no gameplay then you also see the ones clamoring for the crap games anyway since their wii was the best selling console.



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Scoobes on 02 March 2013
fordy said:
Scoobes said:

Err... you know this is a forum right? He's supposed to respond and debate, especially if he disagree with the OP assessment.

Except he's arguing against subjective, opinionated matter, which only makes HIM look like the fool, not the OP.

 

I'll say it agan, there's several reasons why people buy Nintendo consoles, and "3rd party support" is not one of them.

That's not the way I interpreted his comments. He took exception to the fact that the OP claims Nintendo fans have better taste than other gamers. He disagreed but fell short of making the opposite, subjective claim.




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fordy on 02 March 2013
Pristine20 said:


So that was your point all along? That's great if most ninty console purchasers realize what you said because on most forums I frequent, they seem to be complaining about 3rd parties ignoring nintendo. Shouldn't they cease to care since they should've known that was coming?

It's a catch-22 rreally, on one hand, you hear stuff like nintendo titles are holy grail while everything else is just crap with no gameplay then you also see the ones clamoring for the crap games anyway since their wii was the best selling console.


I'm not in the same camp, but I believe it's that they want similar treatment to other consoles, which sounds reasonable. I mean, if the 3rd parties actually cared about alienating userbases, they wouldn't have released shovelware and complained later that their half-decent attempts don't sell on the same platform. Makes sense?

Define "crap games" that people are clamoring for....



Screamapillar on 02 March 2013
Soundwave said


After the SNES, Nintendo's standing with third parties has completely fallen apart and they've become more of a speciality console manufacturer outside of the Wii craze from 2006-2010.


Very true.  Nintendo hasn't been a dominant platform for third-party games on the home console side since SNES.  On the handheld side there is/was quite a bit more third-party support, but since 3DS' debut it seems as though even Nintendo's handheld business has lost most of it's support with third-parties, outside of a handful of big Japanese developers.



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fordy on 02 March 2013
Scoobes said:
fordy said:
Scoobes said:

Err... you know this is a forum right? He's supposed to respond and debate, especially if he disagree with the OP assessment.

Except he's arguing against subjective, opinionated matter, which only makes HIM look like the fool, not the OP.

 

I'll say it agan, there's several reasons why people buy Nintendo consoles, and "3rd party support" is not one of them.

That's not the way I interpreted his comments. He took exception to the fact that the OP claims Nintendo fans have better taste than other gamers. He disagreed but fell short of making the opposite, subjective claim.


Oh no! How dare he think like that with his subjective opinion! This calls for a public lynching!

I'll put it this way. Do you disagree to the fact that 3rd parties have dumped shovelware on Nintendo consoles in the past?



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cyberninja45 on 02 March 2013
Scoobes said:
Wow, confirmation bias and elitism in a single post, lol.

I disagree. Different audiences and market segments influence thrid-party sales rather than anything to do with actual game quality. Recent Nintendo consoles have sold predominantly to the wider audience as well as core Nintendo fans who will happily buy the next iteration of Mario or Zelda.

Funnily enough, third party games do sell on Nintendo consoles, just not in the genres traditionally associated with core gaming. On the Wii the likes of Just Dance, Zumba fitness, Lego: Star Wars, Carnival games, EA Sports active and Cooking Mama are all third party franchises that have sold millions. Like I said before, market segments influence third-party sales, not game quality.

@bolded So you are saying that there is no market for 3rd party sales on a nintendo console because they are a different market from the other console? So how does a game like RE4 (which is a high quality 3rd party game) manage to sell 2 mil copies on the wii if the market is not there?

Yes nintendo consoles do cater to a wider audience also.



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NightDragon83 on 02 March 2013
cyberninja45 said:
NightDragon83 said:
1: Nintendo games are always the best sellers on Nintendo consoles, though there are some exceptions.

2: Ever since the N64 days 3rd parties have halfheartedly supported Nintendo consoles, and many of the biggest 3rd party titles have been left off Nintendo consoles altogether during this time like MGS and GTA for example. And yes, I know MGS appeared on the GC as a port/remake of the first MGS, and GTA appeared on DS in Chinatown wars... not the same thing as having a flagship game in the series launch on a Nintendo console.

3: Nintendo themselves. Unlike Sony or M$ who have no problem sharing the spotlight with major 3rd parties and their software, Nintendo does not actively push or advertise major 3rd party games on their consoles. Sure, occasionally they'll throw gamers a bone like "rescuing" Bayonetta 2 from certain doom, and actually signing a deal for some exclusive 3rd party games like they did with Capcom during the GC era (most of which were promptly ported to PS2).

4: Nintendo's audience. This also ties in with #2, because while SEGA, Sony and M$ have all gone for older gamers, Nintendo has always targeted younger gamers and families. Not a bad thing back in the NES/SNES days, but a terrible business decision in today's market with the majority of gamers in their 20s and 30s and who constantly crave cutting edge technology and new and challenging gameplay experiences rather than the same-old that Nintendo continues to offer on their consoles.

So basically there's only one reason that 3rd party games don't sell well on Nintendo hardware... and that reason is Nintendo.

1. This goes with my point that most nintendo games are high quality games.

2. This is the same as my point that most 3rd party games are either terrible or cash grabs.

3. Because MS and Sony need the 3rd party games to sell their consoles so they will promote them on alot, ps360 would not sell on 1st party alone.

4. Yes nintendo does cater to a wider audience.But do you think the gamers that buy metroid, zelda and xenoblade are children 7 and under or families?

No... which is why 2 out of 3 of those series have absolutely abysmal sales compared to the more casual offerings on Wii.  Prime 3, one of the best games on the Wii, couldn't even crack 2 mil, and Xenoblade, arguably one of the best games this gen period, can't even top just 1m WW on a system that has an install base of nearly 100m.  In comparison, a 3rd party "cash grab" like Just Dance 3 has nearly 10m in sales... which means at minimum 1/10 households with a Wii has Just Dance 3.

Even Zelda doesn't have the selling power it once did... Skyward Sword has done just 3.6m over the past 15 months, again, on a console with nearly 100m units WW.  In comparison, Skyrim sold more than double that in the same time on the 360 alone.  Ironically enough though, the 360's "top selling game" is the Kinect pack-in Kinect Adventures... which proves that the causual audience (which makes up about 90% of Nintendo's current userbase judging by sales) will buy anything that comes with a plastic peripheral.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

fordy on 02 March 2013
NightDragon83 said:
cyberninja45 said:
NightDragon83 said:
1: Nintendo games are always the best sellers on Nintendo consoles, though there are some exceptions.

2: Ever since the N64 days 3rd parties have halfheartedly supported Nintendo consoles, and many of the biggest 3rd party titles have been left off Nintendo consoles altogether during this time like MGS and GTA for example. And yes, I know MGS appeared on the GC as a port/remake of the first MGS, and GTA appeared on DS in Chinatown wars... not the same thing as having a flagship game in the series launch on a Nintendo console.

3: Nintendo themselves. Unlike Sony or M$ who have no problem sharing the spotlight with major 3rd parties and their software, Nintendo does not actively push or advertise major 3rd party games on their consoles. Sure, occasionally they'll throw gamers a bone like "rescuing" Bayonetta 2 from certain doom, and actually signing a deal for some exclusive 3rd party games like they did with Capcom during the GC era (most of which were promptly ported to PS2).

4: Nintendo's audience. This also ties in with #2, because while SEGA, Sony and M$ have all gone for older gamers, Nintendo has always targeted younger gamers and families. Not a bad thing back in the NES/SNES days, but a terrible business decision in today's market with the majority of gamers in their 20s and 30s and who constantly crave cutting edge technology and new and challenging gameplay experiences rather than the same-old that Nintendo continues to offer on their consoles.

So basically there's only one reason that 3rd party games don't sell well on Nintendo hardware... and that reason is Nintendo.

1. This goes with my point that most nintendo games are high quality games.

2. This is the same as my point that most 3rd party games are either terrible or cash grabs.

3. Because MS and Sony need the 3rd party games to sell their consoles so they will promote them on alot, ps360 would not sell on 1st party alone.

4. Yes nintendo does cater to a wider audience.But do you think the gamers that buy metroid, zelda and xenoblade are children 7 and under or families?

No... which is why 2 out of 3 of those series have absolutely abysmal sales compared to the more casual offerings on Wii.  Prime 3, one of the best games on the Wii, couldn't even crack 2 mil, and Xenoblade, arguably one of the best games this gen period, can't even top just 1m WW on a system that has an install base of nearly 100m.  In comparison, a 3rd party "cash grab" like Just Dance 3 has nearly 10m in sales... which means at minimum 1/10 households with a Wii has Just Dance 3.

Even Zelda doesn't have the selling power it once did... Skyward Sword has done just 3.6m over the past 15 months, again, on a console with nearly 100m units WW.  In comparison, Skyrim sold more than double that in the same time on the 360 alone.  Ironically enough though, the 360's "top selling game" is the Kinect pack-in Kinect Adventures... which proves that the causual audience (which makes up about 90% of Nintendo's current userbase judging by sales) will buy anything that comes with a plastic peripheral.

How does 10% of userbase for a casual game equate to 90% casual userbase on the system?

Keep in mind that Skyward Sword was (in my opinion) a failed attempt to make the series more relevant to casuals. Equivalent, you could look at the sales of Twilight Princess on the exact same platform to see that your hypothesis is not sound.



Icy-Zone on 02 March 2013

I haven't owned a Nintendo console since the cube, but I'm about to buy a Wii U. With that said, however, I'll agree that Nintendo are Gods at creating games. Platforming kings with Mario and Kirby alone (probably just Mario alone). RPG/Adventure kings with Zelda. Fighting kings with smash bros 64 and Melee (if Brawl had more teching and zero tripping it would be included). Action kings with Star Fox and Metroid. Their skill at crafting games are unmatched and I look forward to what the Wii U will have in store. This coupled with the PS4 this holiday, I'll be set for this upcoming generation.



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M.U.G.E.N on 02 March 2013
fordy said:
M.U.G.E.N said:
fordy said:

Yet you seem absolutely concerned when someone mentions that perhaps Nintendo's titles are off tio high of a quality for 3rd parties to effectively compete...


Think you might have to google the definition of the word 'concerned' is.  You keep using that term but I don't think it means what you think it means. Because you are mixing that up with disagreement. I think it's absolute nonsense thinking nintendo first party is superior to another. It's a subjective matter. For example I think Sony first party games are much much better than the Nintendo first party. Doesn't make it a fact.

The notion that ninty fans somehow have a better taste than others or ninty first party games are so much better than 3rd party games or PS/360 first party games is damage control at its finest. 


You knew it was subjective, so you decided to jump in. Oh wonderful thought process!

Do you go jumping in offering your opinion at EVERY show of free speech that you don't agree with, too?

You're contradicting yourself in the same goddamn post! You just said it's subjective, yet you say that they're attempting dmaage control. How about you listen to your own advice and take it as "subjective" analogy. You're attempting to have your cake and eat it too!

haha man you are a hoot! Is this like a mini meltdown or something?

First off, no I don't jump to offer an opinion on every thread or against everyone I disagree with. Do you always overreact and have mini meltdowns even without properly understanding other people?

I see that you still don't understand my point. Let me put it this way to you....my point is that it IS subjective. That itself is a fact. The OP is ignoring this. Using a superiority complex as the reason for 3rd party support etc is laughable at best. It definitely is an attempt to damage control. How about you listen to my advice and google any term you don't understand clearly. You can have your cake...and actually know it's a cake and stop ranting how I think it's not a cake when I never said so! 

Now I am in the mood for some cake mmmm



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