I'm not even going to attempt to penetrate CrazzyMan's willful misunderstanding of the data to try to convince him of the truth. But I will point out two particular misinterpretations of the data:

He said, "look at this, PS3 is selling as well as the PS2 did!"
http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=80

It should be obvious to all that the PS3 graph has simply had a Christmas spike earlier than the PS2 graph does, and the PS3 sales are already leveling out and beginning to fall behind the PS2 graph (again).

[edit: added graph] http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=109

He said, "look at this, PS3 is selling BETTER than the Wii or PS2 did!"
http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=Wii&reg1=Europe&cons2=PS3&reg2=Europe&cons3=PS2&reg3=Europe&weeks=50

Well, that does look pretty impressive, until you realize that AGAIN the graph is skewed by the unsynchronized Christmas spikes.

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=Wii&reg1=Europe&cons2=PS3&reg2=Europe&cons3=PS2&reg3=Europe&weeks=66

CrazzyMan, is this just you being a blinkered fanboy, seeing only what you want to see, or are you deliberately being intellectually dishonest? [edit: These two graphs] -- seeming plausible only in a certain limited timeframe while being exposed as ridiculous in a somewhat bigger one -- leads me to wonder if you aren't doing it on purpose.

[edit2: apparently, in IE7 "®" [edit4:  which is to say, "& r e g" ... excuse me while I go cry] is getting turned into the (r) symbol in my links, but not in Firefox. Whatever. I tried to fix it for a few minutes but now I'm bored so you can all switch to FF or just suck it up.]

[edit3: apparently, making edit2 in FF fixed it, while editing it in IE7 is presumably what caused the problem in the first place. So, yeah.]

do any of you have jobs or something better to do than yell at people on forums?


...


that's what I thought

This is like watching a car accident in slow motion. It is horrible but I cannot turn away.

makingmusic476 said: Avinash_Tyagi said: Username2324 said: Or you can hit up this link, showing the PS3 has pretty much identical sales of the PS2 within the same amount of time, so again, it is very likely that the PS3 will be able to hit 100million, the 360 on the other hand, not so likely since its really a America only console. http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=200 Or you can realize that PS2 was only in Japan for like over half a year, and PS3 was launched in all three before PS2 launched in NA.   PS3 is undertracking the PSP, 40 million is being generous His chart goes up to 200 weeks, and the ps3 has been on the market for well over a year. After the ps2 had been on the market for a year, the supply constraints had come to an end, so anybody that would've wanted the system would've been able to buy one. Needless to say, a year into each system's life total sales were roughly the same. The same amount of people that wanted a ps3 in the first year and bought one roughly equate to the same amount of people that wanted a ps2 in the first year, and bought one. All of this despite the fact that the ps3 cost $600 for half of its first year. Avinash_Tyagi said: Username, there is no such thing as console loyalty, most PS2 owners were casual and went to PS2 because of the casual games, games that Wii now has, and Blu-ray players are coming out cheaper than PS3 The tags in my sig and the sheep in your avatar prove that there IS such a thing as brand loyalty. Who is it that buys a console at launch, despite high prices, the probability of hardware problems, and a meager game selection? Loyalists. Why is is that the ps3 kept pace with the 360 for most of the year, and outsells it now, despite being more expensive (at times over $200 so) and despite having a much smaller game library? Brand loyalty. Why is it that the ps3 has already passed up the 360 in many European countries, despite the 360's year long head start? Brand loyalty. Brand loyalty does exist, however how big a role it will play remains to be seen.

 False the supply constrainst hadn't come to a close for the PS2 a year in, if you recall it was supply constrined in NA, past its first holiday in NA, which was at the end of its first year, basically it was around this time that supply constrints for the PS2 eased, remeber it launched much later in NA and Europe than the PS3 did, it launcched in October in NA and November in Europe, and in Japan its supply was so low it dropped to 3000 one week

 

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=Japan&cons2=PS3&reg2=Japan&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=70

 

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&reg1=America&cons2=PS3&reg2=America&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=70

 

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=Total+Other&cons2=PS3&reg2=Total+Other&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=70

 

http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=Europe&cons2=PS3&reg2=Europe&cons3=X360&reg3=------&weeks=70 

 

Every market except Europe alone its being outperfomed by PS2 , and Europe its because PS2 didn't have its holiday bump until later

 

Fanboys make up a very small portion of the market, if they didn't we would still be gaming on Atari machines, also my sheep avatar is meant to be ironic, but I shouldn't expect you to realize that.  If Loyalty was true it would be passing the Wii, but its not, its not even going to come close, even in Europe its supposed strong point its selling worse than Wii, and in NA where PS2 beat the Xbox last gen, its losing on a weekly basis. Brand loaylty is largely a myth, outside of fanboys, which are a very small portion of the market.

Avinash_Tyagi said: makingmusic476 said: Avinash_Tyagi said: Username2324 said: Or you can hit up this link, showing the PS3 has pretty much identical sales of the PS2 within the same amount of time, so again, it is very likely that the PS3 will be able to hit 100million, the 360 on the other hand, not so likely since its really a America only console. http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=200 Or you can realize that PS2 was only in Japan for like over half a year, and PS3 was launched in all three before PS2 launched in NA.   PS3 is undertracking the PSP, 40 million is being generous His chart goes up to 200 weeks, and the ps3 has been on the market for well over a year. After the ps2 had been on the market for a year, the supply constraints had come to an end, so anybody that would've wanted the system would've been able to buy one. Needless to say, a year into each system's life total sales were roughly the same. The same amount of people that wanted a ps3 in the first year and bought one roughly equate to the same amount of people that wanted a ps2 in the first year, and bought one. All of this despite the fact that the ps3 cost $600 for half of its first year. Avinash_Tyagi said: Username, there is no such thing as console loyalty, most PS2 owners were casual and went to PS2 because of the casual games, games that Wii now has, and Blu-ray players are coming out cheaper than PS3 The tags in my sig and the sheep in your avatar prove that there IS such a thing as brand loyalty. Who is it that buys a console at launch, despite high prices, the probability of hardware problems, and a meager game selection? Loyalists. Why is is that the ps3 kept pace with the 360 for most of the year, and outsells it now, despite being more expensive (at times over $200 so) and despite having a much smaller game library? Brand loyalty. Why is it that the ps3 has already passed up the 360 in many European countries, despite the 360's year long head start? Brand loyalty. Brand loyalty does exist, however how big a role it will play remains to be seen. False the supply constrainst hadn't come to a close for the PS2 a year in, if you recall it was supply constrined in NA, past its first holiday in NA, which was at the end of its first year, basically it was around this time that supply constrints for the PS2 eased, remeber it launched much later in NA and Europe than the PS3 did   Fanboys make up a very small portion of the market, if they didn't we would still be gaming on Atari machines, also my sheep avatar is meant to be ironic, but I shouldn't expect you to realize that. If Loyalty was true it would be passing the Wii, but its not, its not even going to come close, even in Europe its supposed strong point its selling worse, and in NA where PS2 beat the Xbox last gen, its losing on a weekly basis. Brand loaylty is largely a myth, outside of fanboys, which are a very small portion of the market.

Yes, it was supply constrained during its first holiday season in the US. But the ps2 launched on Oct. 26, 2000, in the US, so its first holiday season was only a month later.  I bought my ps2 in late April of 2001, and by this time they were rather easy to come by.  The ps2 had originally launched in Japan in March of 2000, only 13 months prior.

As to your avatar, I had assumed that the sheep derived from the GameSpot System Wars forum, where Nintendo fanboys are referred to as "sheep", Sony fanboys as "cows", MS fanboys as "lemmings", and PC fanboys as "hermits".  I guess I was wrong, and I apologize.

Also, I said that brand loyalty does exist, but I never said that every ps2 owner holds a certain loyalty to the PlayStation brand.  I'm sure many are swayed at least somewhat by name (much like I generally prefer Panasonic and Sony products over others), though other factors can over come this, be it a far cheaper price, and innovative control scheme, or some other factor.  

As I said in my previous post, "Brand loyalty does exist, however how big a role it will play remains to be seen."  So far, it is brand loyalty that is propelling the ps3 over the 360 in Europe, because it is surely not price or game selection that is doing this.  However, initially the ps3's exorbitantly high price was negating any loyalty many European consumers may have had, hence why the 360 was dominating the ps3 in the region over the summer.

makingmusic476 said: Avinash_Tyagi said: makingmusic476 said: Avinash_Tyagi said: Username2324 said: Or you can hit up this link, showing the PS3 has pretty much identical sales of the PS2 within the same amount of time, so again, it is very likely that the PS3 will be able to hit 100million, the 360 on the other hand, not so likely since its really a America only console. http://vgchartz.com/hwlaunch.php?cons1=PS2&reg1=All&cons2=PS3&reg2=All&cons3=X360&reg3=All&weeks=200 Or you can realize that PS2 was only in Japan for like over half a year, and PS3 was launched in all three before PS2 launched in NA.   PS3 is undertracking the PSP, 40 million is being generous His chart goes up to 200 weeks, and the ps3 has been on the market for well over a year. After the ps2 had been on the market for a year, the supply constraints had come to an end, so anybody that would've wanted the system would've been able to buy one. Needless to say, a year into each system's life total sales were roughly the same. The same amount of people that wanted a ps3 in the first year and bought one roughly equate to the same amount of people that wanted a ps2 in the first year, and bought one. All of this despite the fact that the ps3 cost $600 for half of its first year. Avinash_Tyagi said: Username, there is no such thing as console loyalty, most PS2 owners were casual and went to PS2 because of the casual games, games that Wii now has, and Blu-ray players are coming out cheaper than PS3 The tags in my sig and the sheep in your avatar prove that there IS such a thing as brand loyalty. Who is it that buys a console at launch, despite high prices, the probability of hardware problems, and a meager game selection? Loyalists. Why is is that the ps3 kept pace with the 360 for most of the year, and outsells it now, despite being more expensive (at times over $200 so) and despite having a much smaller game library? Brand loyalty. Why is it that the ps3 has already passed up the 360 in many European countries, despite the 360's year long head start? Brand loyalty. Brand loyalty does exist, however how big a role it will play remains to be seen. False the supply constrainst hadn't come to a close for the PS2 a year in, if you recall it was supply constrined in NA, past its first holiday in NA, which was at the end of its first year, basically it was around this time that supply constrints for the PS2 eased, remeber it launched much later in NA and Europe than the PS3 did   Fanboys make up a very small portion of the market, if they didn't we would still be gaming on Atari machines, also my sheep avatar is meant to be ironic, but I shouldn't expect you to realize that. If Loyalty was true it would be passing the Wii, but its not, its not even going to come close, even in Europe its supposed strong point its selling worse, and in NA where PS2 beat the Xbox last gen, its losing on a weekly basis. Brand loaylty is largely a myth, outside of fanboys, which are a very small portion of the market. Yes, it was supply constrained during its first holiday season in the US. But the ps2 launched on Oct. 26, 2000, in the US, so its first holiday season was only a month later.  I bought my ps2 in late April of 2001, and by this time they were rather easy to come by.  The ps2 had originally launched in Japan in March of 2000, only 13 months prior. As to your avatar, I had assumed that the sheep derived from the GameSpot System Wars forum, where Nintendo fanboys are referred to as "sheep", Sony fanboys as "cows", MS fanboys as "lemmings", and PC fanboys as "hermits".  I guess I was wrong, and I apologize. Also, I said that brand loyalty does exist, but I never said that every ps2 owner holds a certain loyalty to the PlayStation brand.  I'm sure many are swayed at least somewhat by name (much like I generally prefer Panasonic and Sony products over others), though other factors can over come this, be it a far cheaper price, and innovative control scheme, or some other factor.   As I said in my previous post, "Brand loyalty does exist, however how big a role it will play remains to be seen."  So far, it is brand loyalty that is propelling the ps3 over the 360 in Europe, because it is surely not price or game selection that is doing this.  However, initially the ps3's exorbitantly high price was negating any loyalty many European consumers may have had, hence why the 360 was dominating the ps3 in the region over the summer.

Yes but as you just admitted it took after its first year total for its supply to become unconstained, which is why a direct comparison of PS3 to PS2 is flawed, you have to compare regiions and see how PS2 is winning in all except Europe alone, indicating that the PS3 is not keeping pace with the PS2

 Yes it did, and it was meant to be ironic, a kind of humorous poke at the system wars description of Nintendo fans as sheep.  Since from what i've seen Nitnendo fans are not sheep they just prefer that Nitnendo tends to be more forward thinking in their games and system design

 

Yes but as I said if Brand loyalty was as strong as you seem to believe, it would be propelling the PS3 past the Wii in Europe, since europe is Sony's strongest market, however it is falling short, because most don't care about brand but games

 

He isn't saying brand loyalty will be that strong at all. He is saying it will have some effect. So far as I have read he didn't make a claim for exactly how strong or weak, but comes off as thinking of it as weak over all. You realy need to stop and read more carefully sometimes.

Never mind.  

DAMN.. that will be a LOONG reply.

@Rath,

ATLEAST 40 of them are confirmed.
http://neocrisis.com/content/view/848/
How many of them will be released in 2008, we will know only by the end of 2008, BUT atleast 40 of them DEFINETELY WILL. Assasin Creed? left 4 dead? Army of two? Haze? heavy Rain? Lost Planet? dead Rising? Dark sector? Darkness? L.A. Noire? What you are talking about?

@HappySqurriel, With 9 mln. PS3 sold. With 20 mln. Wii sold.With 20 mln. consoles THE sales NUMBER should be TWICE MORE on Wii. BUT it`s NOT.

@Gnizmo, Back from the future? how do you KNOW THAT? because PS2 had price 149$ only in May 2004 and sold that year - 16 mln. or 2 mln. less then in 2003. And you know why? Because price halfed only after 4 years! PS3 will half it`s price already on second year. THAT will be a HUGE boost to sales.

Since when MASS MARKET PRICE doesn`t MATTER???

Why i CAN`T if they PROVE possibility of PS3 doing like PS2 and PSOne???You again about Wii games??? This is Sony thread, NOT Wii.you are DREAMING too much.

Wha..??? 3 mln. from 120 mln. is less then 3%, whle 0.75k from 9 is around 8%.

PS2 costed 299$ when GC was launched at 199$, that really hurted PS2 sales. LOL.
When console REACH MASS MARKET PRICE, then price difference doesn`t matter ANYMORE.


YET, Sony sold 4 mln. PS3 at 600$ price. IF 4 mln. for 600$ is NOTHING for you.. then. LoL.
That`s only 15% of ALL PS sequels. Why get cheaper system with 15% of sequels, when they can get 100%?

LIKE 120 mln. PS2 USERS CARED??? =)))))))))
So what, PS3 is better then x360 in all ways. HDD, Free online, Reliablility, Power, MANY GREAT BIG AA exlcusive games.

it`s NEW on CONSOLES.

@Mars, LOL. NICE. =))

@Renar, 321 games in 2 YEARS! PS3 is going to have MORE games in TOTAL then x360 by the end of 2008.

@Final-Fan, SO WHAT? PS3 will reach PS2 number later then. NO, it WON`T? BUT it already DID.
So, Now with 299 euro price, with Blu-ray winning HD war, with BIG exclusive PS3 won`t catch PS2 on Christmas 2008 AGAIN???

OR, maybe YOU JUST ignore, THAT PS3 ALREADY SUCCEED to CATCH PS2 sales???
YES PS3 will be AGAIN behind, when PS2 sales reach Christmas, BUT PS3 will AGAIN CATCH PS2 during PS3 Christmas. That is SIMPLE.

@Retrasado, yeah we do, but this is just fun and entertaining. =)

I expect N64 level sales from the PS3