| twilight_link said: neither atheism nor theism are supported by evidence, agnosticism is optimal choice |
Actually you can be both an athiest/theist and agnostic.
Athiesm to me is not believing in god as an assertion due to lack of evidence
Agnosticism is simple the rejection of absolute yes or no answer's
I don't beleive in god but I do not belive the possibility of god is zero.
This is the Game of Thrones
Where you either win
or you DIE
| TheLastStarFighter said:
Many people I know with this "faith" are difficult to deal with when it comes to spiritual/life-meaning discussions. They are condescending to people who have spiritual beliefs, thinking they believe in fairy tales. Ok... Is this really related to the conversation I'm trying to have? I think you're just trying to bash certain atheists. This is somewhat funny because there is no way to prove their isn't a God. Agreed. There's also no way to prove goblins don't live in the centre of the Earth. Does that mean we believe it? No. Would you expect the person who made this claim to provide evidence for it? Yes. Would you expect the person who rejects this claim to prove goblins don't live in the centre of the Earth? No. Point is, the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. In the case of the existence of God, the believer is making the positive claim. Atheism is the rejection of that claim (in my case, and most, it's due to a lack of evidence). I'm not claiming God does not exist, I'm rejecting claims of his existence based on a lack of evidence. There's no "faith" here. And saying you don't know does not default to saying their isn't a God any more than it defaults to saying their is one. On questions of opinion, there are no default answers. That's like saying when doing an AIDS test if the results are inconclusive you have HIV by default. I'm struggling to understand how this analogy is the same thing. Can you make another related to beliefs? btw, press the "quote" button at the bottom of this post to reply plox. |
I grew up. When I was a kid I trusted my parents and the establishment (church) to not lie to me. I always felt there was something missing in religion (logic), but I assumed that because I was a kid, I just didn't understand the divine hand of God. I even at one point held a 20 minute rant about how silly and stupid you'd have to be to not believe in god. after all, if God didn't exist, where did we come from?!
Turns out, it was science I needed to court, and as I id so through my teen years, I came to realize that, while religion was a huge part of many people's lives, it had absolutely no backing in logic, rationale, or intelligence. Religion was, at its core, a fairy tale that people believed to be true simply becuase i the book it's based on happened to share some historical data with reputed sources. The fact t hat people couldn't fathom the idea of historical fiction, or that they'd so devoutly follow something despite the complete and utter lack of proof (And fight to force those beliefs and morals on others) sickened me, as a man who grew to respect and truly appreciate science and all its wonders.
I started simply as a passive atheist, rejecting religion in its silliness, but as people found out and began to treat me as a fool for following the flow of evidence (away from religion and its tall tales and impossible feats), I began to get embittered. I began to get aggressive. If they got away with criticizing me, harassing me, and calling me stupid ir unenlightened for not following their well established fairy tale, then you can be damn right I'm going to fight back. It's not oppression, persay, but it is persecution.
Granted, I don't think all religious people are inherently bad or stupid or evil or oppressive, but the very fact that two people can read t he same book and get two completely different ideals and moral sets out of it should be enough to discredit said book as metaphorical hogwash.
I don't firmly believe there is no God, but I don't believe in god. I worrd my statement carefully. Believing there is no god would indicate that I've found proof that there is no god. This is virtually impossible thanks to the implantation of doubt the believers have put in the public's mind, but I doon't believe in god becuase there has been nothing in history or science to prove such a being exists. And let's be honest, even if there is a god, there's no chance that any religion is correct about its purposes or goals.
I'm not anti-God, but I am anti Religion. I don't believe in a god, but I believe all religions are wrong.
And take careful note of how I worded that statement.
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| SlayerRondo said: PS: I do not claim their is not god but rather i will only believe the existence of a god with proof of which I see none. |
Not sure if someone else has said this yet, but you sound Agnostic.
Was bought up an Atheist so cant really contribute much to this thread, other than lack of evidence seems to support a universe which was not designed or created by anyone/anything.
Current Game Machines: 3DS, Wii U, PC.
Currently Playing: X-Com(PC), Smash Bros(WiiU), Banner Saga(PC), Guild Wars 2(PC), Project X Zone(3DS), Luigis Mansion 2(3DS), DayZ(PC)
wfz said:
|
I am an agnostic athiest by my understanding of the term's
This is the Game of Thrones
Where you either win
or you DIE
| TheLastStarFighter said: Many people I know with this "faith" are difficult to deal with when it comes to spiritual/life-meaning discussions. They are condescending to people who have spiritual beliefs, thinking they believe in fairy tales. Ok... Is this really related to the conversation I'm trying to have? I think you're just trying to bash certain atheists. This is somewhat funny because there is no way to prove their isn't a God. Agreed. There's also no way to prove goblins don't live in the centre of the Earth. Does that mean we believe it? No. Would you expect the person who made this claim to provide evidence for it? Yes. Would you expect the person who rejects this claim to prove goblins don't live in the centre of the Earth? No. Point is, the burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. In the case of the existence of God, the believer is making the positive claim. Atheism is the rejection of that claim (in my case, and most, it's due to a lack of evidence). I'm not claiming God does not exist, I'm rejecting claims of his existence based on a lack of evidence. There's no "faith" here. And saying you don't know does not default to saying their isn't a God any more than it defaults to saying their is one. On questions of opinion, there are no default answers. That's like saying when doing an AIDS test if the results are inconclusive you have HIV by default. I'm struggling to understand how this analogy is the same thing. Can you make another related to beliefs? btw, press the "quote" button at the bottom of this post to reply plox. |
I'm not bashing atheists. I am objecting to your definitions and presumptions. Question: Are you a fan of the Red Soxs or Yankees? Answer: I'm not sure, I don't know what I believe... I have not seen proof that either team is worth my support. Conclusion: You default to a Yankees fan unless you say otherwise.
Your comparision to goblins in the earth is poor. We, as humans have a great understanding of what is in the earth, what it is made of. We have little understanding of what the universe is, it's origins, and the purpose of life. Contrary to what Star Trek will have you believe, even those of us who really understand advance scientific ideas don't understand much. We don't even know what gravity is, only what it does.
If you want to say the default answer is "I don't know?", I could say maybe. I honestly think it's different for every person. I would definitly say that the answer for ALL people is not "I don't know but most likely no God". I think you are placing your personal beliefs and values on others. We are all very different.
Oh, and the quote button doesn't work on any of my PC's. It only works on my phone. Any idea how I can make it work? I always get errors.
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