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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Nintendo and 3rd Party Development: Solving the Problem

pokoko on 10 February 2013
Mensrea said:
I like the OP's thinking. I agree that games will mirror those of the first party studios. Now I'm not saying Nintendo should ditch their more light hearted IP's, because those are still great, but I do have a few idea's.

They should promote their 2nd tier IP's more. Fire Emblem is a very "core" franchise. It's difficult, rewarding, deep, and had incredible production values and usually very good stories. With Awakening, Nintendo really did hype it up, and to top it off, the game is arguably the best in the series. So now FE:A is selling much better than expected, and people are generally excited about it. Nintendo did a similar approach with Metroid Prime. Amazing game, with tons of marketing, and hype.

I feel like they brush their second tier franchises to the side, but it has been shown that people want these more core IP's, and will pay for them.

Nintendo should:

Revive F-Zero and give it a heavy marketing push. This isn't just some fan's pipe dream, as I have not played the series. Rather, the time is right, people want it, and Wipeout is now dead so it would launch as the only futuristic racer on the market. If they gave it a good marketing push, it could do well.

New Zelda should have TP-ish graphics. I love Celda more than anything, but the time is right. HD console with the Zelda that many fans have been waiting for since OOT? It would really set a tone for a system. Zelda is a big player in all Nintendo consoles.

Metroid- Prime 4 is the game I want more than anything else. If retro returned to the exploration aspects of the first two, and expanded on the series, it could be amazing. Metroid Prime was a system seller for the Gamecube, and a title that did just what the OP said: Set a tone.

Nintendo has IP's that have a core appeal, they just tend to brush them to the side. That can't be the way it is. I love Mario, and Pikmin, and all their lighthearted affairs, but don't bring that vibe into your core titles.

Good post.  I agree with pretty much all of it.  It's not like Nintendo doesn't already have some IPs that appeal to fans of genres besides platformers.  Zelda and Metroid are the most obvious, and a lot of people have touched on them, but Fire Emblem is a perfect example of being able to move into another genre with excellent results.  It's the kind of game that breaks away from the Mario world and makes other types of gamers take notice.  Along with Project X, it's the Nintendo property that most interests me.

F-Zero, as well.  I used to run a video store where we carried a lot of games for older consoles titles because, quit honestly, people were still using them to keep their kids entertained.  Yeah, they were cheap rentals, but the F-Zero copies we had were always checked out.  People played the heck out of those games.

It almost seems like Nintendo kind of down-plays certain properties out of fear they might impact other properties.  Is it possible that they pushed F-Zero away because it might take away Mario Kart sales?  I hope not.  I don't see why other core games can't co-exist with Mario.  It just comes down to better marketing and advertising.



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Mr Khan on 10 February 2013
pokoko said:
Mensrea said:
I like the OP's thinking. I agree that games will mirror those of the first party studios. Now I'm not saying Nintendo should ditch their more light hearted IP's, because those are still great, but I do have a few idea's.

They should promote their 2nd tier IP's more. Fire Emblem is a very "core" franchise. It's difficult, rewarding, deep, and had incredible production values and usually very good stories. With Awakening, Nintendo really did hype it up, and to top it off, the game is arguably the best in the series. So now FE:A is selling much better than expected, and people are generally excited about it. Nintendo did a similar approach with Metroid Prime. Amazing game, with tons of marketing, and hype.

I feel like they brush their second tier franchises to the side, but it has been shown that people want these more core IP's, and will pay for them.

Nintendo should:

Revive F-Zero and give it a heavy marketing push. This isn't just some fan's pipe dream, as I have not played the series. Rather, the time is right, people want it, and Wipeout is now dead so it would launch as the only futuristic racer on the market. If they gave it a good marketing push, it could do well.

New Zelda should have TP-ish graphics. I love Celda more than anything, but the time is right. HD console with the Zelda that many fans have been waiting for since OOT? It would really set a tone for a system. Zelda is a big player in all Nintendo consoles.

Metroid- Prime 4 is the game I want more than anything else. If retro returned to the exploration aspects of the first two, and expanded on the series, it could be amazing. Metroid Prime was a system seller for the Gamecube, and a title that did just what the OP said: Set a tone.

Nintendo has IP's that have a core appeal, they just tend to brush them to the side. That can't be the way it is. I love Mario, and Pikmin, and all their lighthearted affairs, but don't bring that vibe into your core titles.

Good post.  I agree with pretty much all of it.  It's not like Nintendo doesn't already have some IPs that appeal to fans of genres besides platformers.  Zelda and Metroid are the most obvious, and a lot of people have touched on them, but Fire Emblem is a perfect example of being able to move into another genre with excellent results.  It's the kind of game that breaks away from the Mario world and makes other types of gamers take notice.  Along with Project X, it's the Nintendo property that most interests me.

F-Zero, as well.  I used to run a video store where we carried a lot of games for older consoles titles because, quit honestly, people were still using them to keep their kids entertained.  Yeah, they were cheap rentals, but the F-Zero copies we had were always checked out.  People played the heck out of those games.

It almost seems like Nintendo kind of down-plays certain properties out of fear they might impact other properties.  Is it possible that they pushed F-Zero away because it might take away Mario Kart sales?  I hope not.  I don't see why other core games can't co-exist with Mario.  It just comes down to better marketing and advertising.

Nintendo felt F-Zero had nowhere else to go, gameplay wise. Miyamoto assumed people were tired of it.

The reality, of course, is that GX was just inaccessibly hard, and the anime-based games were just junk.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

DarkTemplar on 10 February 2013

Nintendo has issues with third parties and this is not new to no one, but third parties have to change as well.

For example, New Super Mario Wii sold 26 million unities according to our data and there is not a single relevant third party game on the Wii for that audience. Obs.: Rayman seems to not appeal the NSMW fans as sales of the game on the Wii were not as good as they could, so I do not consider that game relevant for the NSMW audience.

This is even more hard to believe if we compare the development costs/risks/time of making proper a 2D Mario clone with the resources needed make a good Call of Duty clone. I am not saying that CoD should not be cloned but NSMW deserved to have as many clones as CoD had this gen.

Sometimes third parties' behavior does not make sense from a business point of view at least to me. This is why I would love to have inside information and perhaps find an reasonable answer to questions like the one I mentioned above.



Mnementh on 10 February 2013
pokoko said:
Mnementh said:
OP basically says, Nintendo should copy the strategy of Sony and Microsoft and abandon the fanbase they have. That might work - or not. Nintendo at the moment caters to gamers that Sony and Microsoft ignore or are unable to get to them. You say Nintendo should give up on these gamers (so that they have no platform to play on). Because seemingly the market of Sony and MS doesn't give a shit about mature games on Nintendo-platforms like Zelda:TP at Wii-launch, as long as this is poisoned by a game for the other group: Wii Sports. So to get to Microsonys market Nintendo have to completely abandon the gamers that prefer Just Dance over Battlefield.

I didn't say that at all.  Not even close.  Honestly, I have no idea where you got that from.  I said absolutely nothing about abandoning anything.  You don't have to abandon when you expand.

Did Microsoft abandon Halo when they launched Kinect?  Did Sony abandon God of War when they launched Little Big Planet?

Did Nintendo drop Kirby when they picked up Bayonetta 2?

All I'm saying is that Nintendo ignoring other genres makes it more likely that those who like those other genres will pick up another console.  There is nothing revolutionary in that.

The Wii had the more mature games. At launch it had Zelda:TP and red Steel. In 2007 it got Metroid Prime 3 and RE 4. But all focused on Wii Sports and said the Wii was a casual console. So the only way to establish a different image as you recommend is too drop all games like Wii Sports and only concentrate on Core-games. Because Nintendo had a mix of games at start with the Wii. But the image of the console was dominated only by the casual games. So yes, you might think you could change the image without dropping the expanded userbase, but in reality it is obviously not possible.



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TheLastStarFighter on 11 February 2013

Third parties would rather XBox or PS be the system of choice for consumers, because on those platforms they don't have to compete with the world's largest gaming software maker. I don't blame them. The PS2 environment was ideal as a third party. Games like Metal Gear, Final Fantasy and GTA were the system sellers. The same is true on XBox360 where COD is the lead franchise. On a Nintendo platform you are always competing with MarioBros or MarioKart for consumer dollars and promotion.

I think 3rd party support is coming for WiiU and we'll hear about it soon. But if it's not, the best thing Nintendo could do is buy Take Two. Then they won't need to worry about it.