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Forums - General - If God doesnt exist then who wrote the bible ?

IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
DaRev said:
I honestly don't understand how intelligent people don't believe 'God wrote the Bible'. Like there's some dude or group of dudes out somewhere just thinking up crazy stuff trying to control people, but not ever revealing their identity or group or ever taking the credit, but letting other people like the Church get all the credit o_O

If I wrote the Bible you sure as hell bet I would want the credit and all the royalties! It just doesn't make any sense, to believe that some man or group wrote the bible.

 

Completely agree. I mean,

 

- Why would people make up stories that demand you to worship a god which has absolutely no evidence of existing?

- Why would people make up stories that forbids us to eat tasty and unharmful meat?

- Why would people make up stories that tells us to cut away parts of our genitals despite having no knowledge of the medical benefits and full knowledge of the physical pain it caused?

- Why would people make up sexist stories about how Eve (femininity) was the one to initially betray God and then drag Adam (masculinity) with her?

- Why would people make up homophobic stories about how acting on homosexual feelings is a sin?

- Why would people make up stories which dictates how we should live our lives?

 

 

Obviously, only a deity with perfect knowledge and wisdom could come up with all this.


scienctology is just as real as any other religion. lol they made up stories about how people should live there lives. Just like any cult,why do they make stuff up? 



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magkDan1 said:
The thing about the Bible is its references, its citation, its proof, its sources is nothing but its own self.


like the earth is only 6,000 years old? that's suppose to be real. 



oldschoolfool said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

- Why would people make up stories that demand you to worship a god which has absolutely no evidence of existing?

- Why would people make up stories that forbids us to eat tasty and unharmful meat?

- Why would people make up stories that tells us to cut away parts of our genitals despite having no knowledge of the medical benefits and full knowledge of the physical pain it caused?

- Why would people make up sexist stories about how Eve (femininity) was the one to initially betray God and then drag Adam (masculinity) with her?

- Why would people make up homophobic stories about how acting on homosexual feelings is a sin?

- Why would people make up stories which dictates how we should live our lives?

 

 

Obviously, only a deity with perfect knowledge and wisdom could come up with all this.


scienctology is just as real as any other religion. lol they made up stories about how people should live there lives. Just like any cult,why do they make stuff up? 


I guess I wasn't sarcastic enough.



So, do i get money for answering this one right? :D



The question is not who wrote it but what were they smoking.



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ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions?

All three of those can be explained quite easily.

Why do birds fly south for the winter? Depends on whether you mean the physiology or the purpose. If you mean the purpose, then it's pretty obvious - they've adapted to relatively warm, mild climates, and when the weather gets too hot or too cold, they move to more temperate areas. If you mean the physiology and mechanism, it's even on wikipedia.

Why do birds know to sit on their eggs? That would be the same thing that enables fish to know how to swim on birth, or that enables human babies to know how to breathe - it's part of the nervous system, part of instinct.

As for why man "created" the very first religions, that's also quite simple to explain. Man saw rain, and asked "why is water falling from the sky?" With no knowledge of evaporation and condensation, man came to the conclusion that some deity must have put it there. When man saw the sun move through the sky and asked why, man didn't understand that it was a massive ball of plasma burning due to nuclear fusion, or that the earth was a sphere that rotated through space, and came up with stories about how some deity moves it through the heavens, or other similar stories. When man discovered fire, man didn't go "heavy friction is causing increasing temperature, which is triggering combustion and thus resulting in fire", they concluded that it was a gift from some deity. Each phenomenon that they couldn't explain was given a theological explanation, because it's the best that they could do.

However, as humanity grew in understanding, it became less necessary to have a god to explain each phenomenon; as such, the number of gods reduced, and stories were adjusted to suit. Eventually, there was no need for multiple gods, because understanding things like friction was relatively easy, leaving only the most existential of questions. Thus the formation of monotheistic religions.

Science has superseded that, though. Great thinkers have realised that religion cannot solve the question of "why", because it just introduces new ones. God created the universe? So who created god? God has always existed? Why can't the universe have always existed? You get what I mean, of course. And so, in modern times, religion has broken into two groups.

The first group is the personal deity - those who believe that god is within them, helping them with their lives. While I disagree with those within this group, I fully respect their belief. The second group is the hyper-organised religion - where there's this idea that the job of believers is to force their beliefs on everyone else. And sadly, a few such religions have succeeded in certain places. Christianity has forced itself on quite a few nations. Islam has forced itself upon others. Judaism is pretty much forced on Israelis. There are no doubt others, too.

Anyway, even if none of the three things you mentioned had been explained, that would not be equivalent to saying that they could not be explained - that is, it's a huge leap from "we don't have an explanation" to "no explanation can exist". Because throughout history every mystery ever solved has turned out to be... not magic (thank you, Tim Minchin, for those words).

Food for thought.



luisvideogames said:
A group of bishops in the council at Carthage in 397 A.D assembled the Bible. The actual books and chapters are credited to various prophets, apostles and disciples. But, the book as a whole was created by an assembly. They wanted to collect the most important Christian writings and histories into a single book that would be enough for any person to have all that they needed to study and understand God's message. They put together the Bible. They did not write it but they made it. Like an editor putting together a book of short stories or essays. There is no one person that wrote the Bible. Although some people say God wrote it this is untrue. The Bible is supposed to contain God's message but most of it is in the words of the people who did the writing. If you accept the notion that Jesus was God in the flesh, then you could say that the words of Jesus were part of what God "wrote." The same would apply to the instances where someone heard the Lord speak to them.

Generally speaking, Christians acknowledge that the exact phrasing was executed by human authors and transcribers, but that all the writing was inspired by God.
(taken from wiki answers)

And this proves just how unknowledgeable some of the people on online forums are.

Good post.



spaceguy said:
DaRev said:
I honestly don't understand how intelligent people don't believe 'God wrote the Bible'. Like there's some dude or group of dudes out somewhere just thinking up crazy stuff trying to control people, but not ever revealing their identity or group or ever taking the credit, but letting other people like the Church get all the credit o_O

If I wrote the Bible you sure as hell bet I would want the credit and all the royalties! It just doesn't make any sense, to believe that some man or group wrote the bible.



Are you kidding?

 

Why would I be?



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Fireforgey said:
SlayerRondo said:
Fireforgey said:
cunger said:
oldschoolfool said:
a bunch of different people wrote the bible. Who wrote all the other fake religious books. lol


That's not actually true. The Quran was basically just written by Muhammad.  Nobody in their right mind would suggest that God wrote the bible that's actually quite laughable. It is well known who wrote the books of the bible in fact many of the books are named after the person who wrote them in other cases information about who wrote them has been passed down over time.

Did you realise that it's possible for all religions to be made up and also for God to exist?  It is my personaly belief that yes a greater power exists and that the world makes less sense without a greater power than with. Religions have mostly been about humans reaching out to God rather than God reaching out to humans. It's possible for all religion to have a degree of validity.


Yes yes, it was just basically written by Mohamed.  So, a book with Scientific facts no one in that century had a right to know.  Written in a style no one in that age nor in any any other couldn't match.  A book that talks about the origins of the Jewish and Christian religions bringing them back to the way they were before they were changed, fixing the mistakes and contradictions in them at the same time.  A book that shows and understanding of the world far greater than anything else out there at the time. 

 

ALL of that was written by an illiterate merchant who had no formal education or training of any kind.  So, Mohamed knew Hebrew to read the Torah, read the bible, AND THEN translated them both, altered them, changed the style (I emphasise the style because it is truly the greatest-For the sake of argument one of the greatest instead of the greatest-written works of all time) to a style that is COMPLETELY different from his own (an insane amount of his quotes are preserved perfectly till now) all of that in his free time.

 

I'm not going to sit and convince you why I beleive the Muslim religion is true, however, when there are experts that doubt that Shakespear wrote his plays (look it up, it's weird) Why do people just disregard the Quran saying, oh yeah he wrote it, when the impossibility of it is astounding?

 

 

For the sake of the OP......Ouch, I I don't even know what to say to a person like that....The part that confused me the most was when she asked us to think about it.  I think thinking kind of defeats her purpose.

What evidence do you provide that Mohamed was indeed the sole writer of this book or truly illiterate like you claim he is?

The facts are that after muhammad died (just like with Jesus) the Quran was compiled by other people far more literate than himself after amassing a large amount of followers largely through the use of violence.

Also if he was not literate then even understanding what god said how would he have written it down without help?

And just becuase you think something is unlikely does not mean it is impossible. It's also madeningly unlikely that god abeing on unmatched intellect would send one prophet to one part of the world knowing that other nations would disregard it resulting it large numbers of deaths and confusion over the interpretation of the Quran for over a millenium. If that's true your god is one sick fucking asshole who like's to watch people suffer for no reason.

And this happened over 1300 year's ago so the accuracy of the preserved quotes is unreliable and just becuase you;re consistent does not mean your not consistently lying.

Look, about the part of it being accurate.  I would trust the quotes far more than....Pretty much everything.  The unforgiving extremes to which Muslim scholars take to represent the accuracy is astounding.  I have never seen anything like it.  Think of a Science paper with al of its refrences.  Then what are those references references.  And then who can vouch for the references, who passed it to whome?  If ONE and I mean one of the 26 (I believe) person chain that brought these quotes is questionable, it is discarded.

 

The Quran was spread By the prophet Mohamed however he never wrote (although by a miracle he ended up being able to read, the part of you believing or not believing that is of no importance) the Quran.  He taught it to his followers who memorized it.  Then Abu Bakr Al Sediq gathered 30 of Mohamed's closest friends after his death and wrote down the Quran for the first time but not compiled of one book.  The oldest known Quran that is still around today, I repeat, the first one still exists TODAY, was written by Othamn Ibn Afan and others of Mohamed's closest friends and followers.

 

As you said, just because I think it is unlikely doesn't mean it is impossible, but no one even considers or wonders about how a man like that could come up with one of the greatest pieces of literature ever created.  Once again, people doubt if Shakespear wrote his plays for various reasons.  I'm not saying I agree with them, but when you have a man as learned and educated as he, and still people doubt his credentials, why is it that an uneducated man was able to talk in such detail about the wonders of life, scientific facts unknown to the time, secrets of the world that we are still finding out about and YET....no one asks, How?  

I'm not saying that by it being unlikely it immeidiatly becomes the truth, but it is a question worth asking that for some strange reason, never gets asked.  Probably because the answer is one that they don't want to know.

 

As to why it came down to Arabs in one part of the world, that is another story for another time.  Also, your ideas on Muslim conquest and conquering are a bit off but I'm too tired to sit and correct everything you said now.

The Quran's origin is no where near as clear as shakespear given the quran was supposedly written about 900 years before shakespear wrote his great works.

I find it hard to believe that he was able to read but not write given that makes absolutely no sense and he was just some madman speaking whatever thought;s popped into his delusional head and other people wrote these things down resulting in multiple quran untill they were one day compiled to avoid needless fighting over what the Quran said (which given the current middle east failed tremendously) and that lead to a book that contain's multiple contradiction's.

If part of the Quran is wrong than that leaves the strong possibility that all of it was wrong.

Just go to  http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ and you will see how many errors are in the Quran. Just because the Quran was consistent over time does not mean it wasnt consistently wrong.

And to the point that the story of why god only told one man all of what was in the Quran being a story for another day is simply you not having an answer that does not sound nonsensical and cruel on god's part. Not to mention that it took him a while to get the message out there considering how long people had been in existence.

And yes Muhammad did use force to spread islam and was married to a six year old and had sex with her at age nine. 

There is a reason why it seems unlikely he did not write it alone because he simply did not do it alone.

I also find the fact that you believe the Quran in spite of contradictions and the evil god of the Quran who supposedly taunt's people by giving them only one prophet then sending no message since incredibly stupid. 



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Where you either win

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ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?

I can gaurantee you most christian's and muslim's have not had a real good look through their holy book's because if they hd they woul have seen the long list of internal and external contradiction's with themselves and scientific fact's. You really think that if more people had a godlook at your holy book they would not find themselves embarrassed and disgusted by the god's proclaimed within?

Muslim's probably should have re-written the Quran given how many absurd thing's are kept within it that most people would see as a poorly written piece of fiction. A book that a ritten 1300 year's ago is not proof of the existence of god and most people no believe in it for three reason's

1: Their parent's where folower's of that religion 

2: Their afraid of death and can;t accept a world without god

3: Their culture is unaccepting of athiesm ranging from exclusion all the way to death for apostacy. 

Im guessing that you were simply brought up being taught islam and was imprinted upon you as a child when you were most vulnerable. If you were brought up christian you would be here ingoring the inconsistancy's of the bible and pointing out those of the Quran. 

Check out http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ for a list of contradiction's in the Quran with an open mind.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE