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Forums - General - If God doesnt exist then who wrote the bible ?

Chrizum on 11 February 2013
ToraTiger said:
baph7667 said:
ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?


The "likeness" is explainable by the fact that they're all just following the typical evolutionary pattern of the thinking patterns of human beings.  That's why you see so many similarities between so many cultures.  It's because evolution tends to follow similar paths.

As for why humans seem to have a spiritual need for religion, a man named Matthew Alper (  http://www.godpart.com/ ) explains that pretty well in his book "The God Part of the Brain".  At some point in its evolution mankind hit upon a existential crises when it realized that it would have to die at some point, so to compensate for that terrifying thought over time humans came up with and hotwired their brains to believe in the fantasy of the afterlife.

For my part, I do think that this awareness of death and compensation for it may have even come about prior to human awareness and that's why you see things in the animal kingdom like cats entering a purring stage prior to death


Firstly, thanks for correting my grammar.  Secondly, there isn't SCIENCE that has actually proof of evolution.  If we all evolved from apes, then how come we aren't super human-alien-primates by now?  And if it does exist, then how or when will it know when to stop.  We'd be evolving forever.   And if It's our thinking pattern,  and I don't think that the afterlife has anything to do with the existence of God.   Only way evolution would work that way for EVERY single major culture that has existed is if something was "magical" pushing everyone to such beliefs.  Food for thought.

Not trying to be demeaning but it's clear you know very little about the mechanics of evolution. That's not a shame considering your young age. But no evolutionary scientist claims we evolved from apes. And yes, life keeps evolving.

Try to be more modest, the smartest scientists in the world know TONS more about this field than you and I, so please don't try to disprove evolution when you have such extremely limited knowledge on the matter.



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Frank_kc on 11 February 2013
SlayerRondo said:
Frank_kc said:
SlayerRondo said:
ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?

I can gaurantee you most christian's and muslim's have not had a real good look through their holy book's because if they hd they woul have seen the long list of internal and external contradiction's with themselves and scientific fact's. You really think that if more people had a godlook at your holy book they would not find themselves embarrassed and disgusted by the god's proclaimed within?

Muslim's probably should have re-written the Quran given how many absurd thing's are kept within it that most people would see as a poorly written piece of fiction. A book that a ritten 1300 year's ago is not proof of the existence of god and most people no believe in it for three reason's

1: Their parent's where folower's of that religion 

2: Their afraid of death and can;t accept a world without god

3: Their culture is unaccepting of athiesm ranging from exclusion all the way to death for apostacy. 

Im guessing that you were simply brought up being taught islam and was imprinted upon you as a child when you were most vulnerable. If you were brought up christian you would be here ingoring the inconsistancy's of the bible and pointing out those of the Quran. 

Check out http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ for a list of contradiction's in the Quran with an open mind.


I am not the best person to respond to the claims of contradiction, but reading some of it (being open minded) tells me that this list is just baloney.

I can give you a couple of examples:

- item 109: Muslims can  adopt orphans ,However they can not change the child's last name to their name as Islam values the identity of the family. You are not the child's bio parents and will never be their parents.

-item 72 is really funny contradiction... so calling a prophet wife an old woman is a contradiction.....

 

As i said, i am not the best person to respond to each one of those items. Since we are trying to be open minded here, if some one tells you something, dont you want to make sure that what he is telling you is right or wrong?? thats the way i view those contradictions..... verify that those are true claims before you make a judgment.


Hmm not surprised you did not start off at the beginning of the list if you truly thought the list was a load of baloney but rather picked and chose which one's you thought made the least sense.

While item 72 is a bit of a strech (the point made on the site does mention that it may just be the wife is the old woman and believe's calling the wife of the supposed prophet that would be rude) but 109 ponit's out that the Quran acknoledges adoption then prohibit's itself.

The claim's about the Quran on that site use's the passages in the Quran to show how they contradict each other so to deny their evidence is to deny the Quran itself. I have seen the contradictions and almost all of them make sense to me and therefore the Quran must contain lie's and falsehood's that a god would not have put in there. If you cannot refute the contradiction's then you simply have to admit that part of the Quran is false and therefore either god screwed up or people made it up/ added their 2 cents.

And coming from someone who is not only a believer in god but a thiest i think that maybe you should take a good hard look at all the thing's that are wrong within your religion. You will find contradiction's within the Quran, between the Quran and history, contradiction's with proven scientific fact and a complete lack of evidence of any divine act of god. 

And just a a reminder as someone making an assertion that your god is true the burden of proof is on you and other religious people to prove the existence of god and a book written over a millenium ago with an absurd amount of contradiction's and a complete lack of physical evidence is not going to cut it. 

I understand that you've been brought up believing in islam and you like many other's have a strong belief and really want it to be true so will twist logic however you can to fit in with a religion that make's less and less sense every year as we learn more and more about the world around us and replace god as an explanation with scientific theory's.

I have not picked and select from the list, as I told you, i am not the most experienced person in Islam to respond to the contradiction claims listed on that web page. More examples:

 

- Item 4: i can challenge any one in this world that the Quran said that Muhammad has seen god. The part referenced here 53-1 doesn’t say in any kind of translation that Muhammad has seen god. Here is the a reference with translation to English:

 

http://quran.com/53

It says that Muhammad have seen signs of his lord, not the lord him self.

 

- Item 7: Although the point says that god said that angels cant cause people to die, there is no reference what so ever to this in the Quran like other references of contradiction listed on this website. However, all three references to angles causing people to die ( referenced by chapter in this point) are consistent and accurate.

 

-item 24: The first time when Mary was giving birth to Jesus, there was only one angel who talked to her. The other contradiction which the site claims about a group of angels is different since it was not at the time when she was giving birth to Jesus. There is no single reference in that chapter that indicate that those group of angels who asked Mary to pray to only one god happened when she was giving birth to Jesus.

 

As I said earlier, those are more examples about how baloney are those contradictions. When you need to learn something, learn it from the source and be open minded as you want others to be open minded.



Frank_kc on 11 February 2013
Chrizum said:
ToraTiger said:
baph7667 said:
ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?


The "likeness" is explainable by the fact that they're all just following the typical evolutionary pattern of the thinking patterns of human beings.  That's why you see so many similarities between so many cultures.  It's because evolution tends to follow similar paths.

As for why humans seem to have a spiritual need for religion, a man named Matthew Alper (  http://www.godpart.com/ ) explains that pretty well in his book "The God Part of the Brain".  At some point in its evolution mankind hit upon a existential crises when it realized that it would have to die at some point, so to compensate for that terrifying thought over time humans came up with and hotwired their brains to believe in the fantasy of the afterlife.

For my part, I do think that this awareness of death and compensation for it may have even come about prior to human awareness and that's why you see things in the animal kingdom like cats entering a purring stage prior to death


Firstly, thanks for correting my grammar.  Secondly, there isn't SCIENCE that has actually proof of evolution.  If we all evolved from apes, then how come we aren't super human-alien-primates by now?  And if it does exist, then how or when will it know when to stop.  We'd be evolving forever.   And if It's our thinking pattern,  and I don't think that the afterlife has anything to do with the existence of God.   Only way evolution would work that way for EVERY single major culture that has existed is if something was "magical" pushing everyone to such beliefs.  Food for thought.

Not trying to be demeaning but it's clear you know very little about the mechanics of evolution. That's not a shame considering your young age. But no evolutionary scientist claims we evolved from apes. And yes, life keeps evolving.

Try to be more modest, the smartest scientists in the world know TONS more about this field than you and I, so please don't try to disprove evolution when you have such extremely limited knowledge on the matter.

 Mechanics of evolution!!!!! lets be more realistic here and say that the human who built airplanes and technology is a descent from apes!!!!!! come on.....

why didn’t human evolute to something else in the past 2000 years if this mechanics of evolution really exist?



SlayerRondo on 11 February 2013
Frank_kc said:
SlayerRondo said:
Frank_kc said:
SlayerRondo said:
ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?

I can gaurantee you most christian's and muslim's have not had a real good look through their holy book's because if they hd they woul have seen the long list of internal and external contradiction's with themselves and scientific fact's. You really think that if more people had a godlook at your holy book they would not find themselves embarrassed and disgusted by the god's proclaimed within?

Muslim's probably should have re-written the Quran given how many absurd thing's are kept within it that most people would see as a poorly written piece of fiction. A book that a ritten 1300 year's ago is not proof of the existence of god and most people no believe in it for three reason's

1: Their parent's where folower's of that religion 

2: Their afraid of death and can;t accept a world without god

3: Their culture is unaccepting of athiesm ranging from exclusion all the way to death for apostacy. 

Im guessing that you were simply brought up being taught islam and was imprinted upon you as a child when you were most vulnerable. If you were brought up christian you would be here ingoring the inconsistancy's of the bible and pointing out those of the Quran. 

Check out http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ for a list of contradiction's in the Quran with an open mind.


I am not the best person to respond to the claims of contradiction, but reading some of it (being open minded) tells me that this list is just baloney.

I can give you a couple of examples:

- item 109: Muslims can  adopt orphans ,However they can not change the child's last name to their name as Islam values the identity of the family. You are not the child's bio parents and will never be their parents.

-item 72 is really funny contradiction... so calling a prophet wife an old woman is a contradiction.....

 

As i said, i am not the best person to respond to each one of those items. Since we are trying to be open minded here, if some one tells you something, dont you want to make sure that what he is telling you is right or wrong?? thats the way i view those contradictions..... verify that those are true claims before you make a judgment.


Hmm not surprised you did not start off at the beginning of the list if you truly thought the list was a load of baloney but rather picked and chose which one's you thought made the least sense.

While item 72 is a bit of a strech (the point made on the site does mention that it may just be the wife is the old woman and believe's calling the wife of the supposed prophet that would be rude) but 109 ponit's out that the Quran acknoledges adoption then prohibit's itself.

The claim's about the Quran on that site use's the passages in the Quran to show how they contradict each other so to deny their evidence is to deny the Quran itself. I have seen the contradictions and almost all of them make sense to me and therefore the Quran must contain lie's and falsehood's that a god would not have put in there. If you cannot refute the contradiction's then you simply have to admit that part of the Quran is false and therefore either god screwed up or people made it up/ added their 2 cents.

And coming from someone who is not only a believer in god but a thiest i think that maybe you should take a good hard look at all the thing's that are wrong within your religion. You will find contradiction's within the Quran, between the Quran and history, contradiction's with proven scientific fact and a complete lack of evidence of any divine act of god. 

And just a a reminder as someone making an assertion that your god is true the burden of proof is on you and other religious people to prove the existence of god and a book written over a millenium ago with an absurd amount of contradiction's and a complete lack of physical evidence is not going to cut it. 

I understand that you've been brought up believing in islam and you like many other's have a strong belief and really want it to be true so will twist logic however you can to fit in with a religion that make's less and less sense every year as we learn more and more about the world around us and replace god as an explanation with scientific theory's.

 

I have not picked and select from the list, as I told you, i am not the most experienced person in Islam to respond to the contradiction claims listed on that web page. More examples:

 

- Item 4: i can challenge any one in this world that the Quran said that Muhammad has seen god. The part referenced here 53-1 doesn’t say in any kind of translation that Muhammad has seen god. Here is the a reference with translation to English:

 

http://quran.com/53

It says that Muhammad have seen signs of his lord, not the lord him self.

 

- Item 7: Although the point says that god said that angels cant cause people to die, there is no reference what so ever to this in the Quran like other references of contradiction listed on this website. However, all three references to angles causing people to die ( referenced by chapter in this point) are consistent and accurate.

 

-item 24: The first time when Mary was giving birth to Jesus, there was only one angel who talked to her. The other contradiction which the site claims about a group of angels is different since it was not at the time when she was giving birth to Jesus. There is no single reference in that chapter that indicate that those group of angels who asked Mary to pray to only one god happened when she was giving birth to Jesus.

 

As I said earlier, those are more examples about how baloney are those contradictions. When you need to learn something, learn it from the source and be open minded as you want others to be open minded.

 


You are simply interpreting thing's in a manner to support your claim's rather than looking at thing's from un unbiased perspective.

At this point I'm simply inclined to say that it does not matter what evidence is put forward you will simply twist and turn and interpret things to your liking. 

There was a point when I  really wanted to believe in god and would cling to any explanation for the bible no matter how absurd it may seem to me now that I look at it just like the Quran as a fairy tale. 

Also the Quran's acknoledgement of other religion's being judaism and christianity mean's it has taken large part's of their baguage as well.

And just whilewere at it some of your explanation's for the contradiction's such as it being sign's of god he saw are false. He did see god as claimed in the Quran and therefore the Quran has contradicted itself. As well as the fact that the timing of when the Quran was established and how accurately it represents of muhammad said are widely disputed among historic scholars as well as dissenters not getting a fair say back then when islam was taking off thus we are presented with a biased view of history.

Just look at the state of Islamic lead nation's today and tell me it does not resemble christianity 700 years ago. If allah really did set islam in motion and not people's delusion's/lie's then he is truly an evil god for the pain he has caused through his ambiguity and lackluster attempt to spread his truth.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

DieAppleDie on 11 February 2013

religions sole purpose is to give emotional consolation
theres no truth on any of that, bible is just a story trying to entertain and teach (someones) values, like the school of the early ages...



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Chrizum on 11 February 2013
Frank_kc said:
Chrizum said:
ToraTiger said:
baph7667 said:
ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?


The "likeness" is explainable by the fact that they're all just following the typical evolutionary pattern of the thinking patterns of human beings.  That's why you see so many similarities between so many cultures.  It's because evolution tends to follow similar paths.

As for why humans seem to have a spiritual need for religion, a man named Matthew Alper (  http://www.godpart.com/ ) explains that pretty well in his book "The God Part of the Brain".  At some point in its evolution mankind hit upon a existential crises when it realized that it would have to die at some point, so to compensate for that terrifying thought over time humans came up with and hotwired their brains to believe in the fantasy of the afterlife.

For my part, I do think that this awareness of death and compensation for it may have even come about prior to human awareness and that's why you see things in the animal kingdom like cats entering a purring stage prior to death


Firstly, thanks for correting my grammar.  Secondly, there isn't SCIENCE that has actually proof of evolution.  If we all evolved from apes, then how come we aren't super human-alien-primates by now?  And if it does exist, then how or when will it know when to stop.  We'd be evolving forever.   And if It's our thinking pattern,  and I don't think that the afterlife has anything to do with the existence of God.   Only way evolution would work that way for EVERY single major culture that has existed is if something was "magical" pushing everyone to such beliefs.  Food for thought.

Not trying to be demeaning but it's clear you know very little about the mechanics of evolution. That's not a shame considering your young age. But no evolutionary scientist claims we evolved from apes. And yes, life keeps evolving.

Try to be more modest, the smartest scientists in the world know TONS more about this field than you and I, so please don't try to disprove evolution when you have such extremely limited knowledge on the matter.

 Mechanics of evolution!!!!! lets be more realistic here and say that the human who built airplanes and technology is a descent from apes!!!!!! come on.....

why didn’t human evolute to something else in the past 2000 years if this mechanics of evolution really exist?

Please try to read, humans didn't descent from apes. And evolution doesn't work that way. 2000 years is nothing in terms of evolutionary processes.

I wonder why people who clearly know very little about something feel such a need to act so smart. Surely you must know yourself that you haven't read any books or articles in the field of evolutionary sciences? It's a complex field with decades of research. It'd be naive to presume you know more than the accumulated knowledge of all evolutionary scientists together.



DieAppleDie on 11 February 2013
Frank_kc said:
Chrizum said:
ToraTiger said:
baph7667 said:
ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?


The "likeness" is explainable by the fact that they're all just following the typical evolutionary pattern of the thinking patterns of human beings.  That's why you see so many similarities between so many cultures.  It's because evolution tends to follow similar paths.

As for why humans seem to have a spiritual need for religion, a man named Matthew Alper (  http://www.godpart.com/ ) explains that pretty well in his book "The God Part of the Brain".  At some point in its evolution mankind hit upon a existential crises when it realized that it would have to die at some point, so to compensate for that terrifying thought over time humans came up with and hotwired their brains to believe in the fantasy of the afterlife.

For my part, I do think that this awareness of death and compensation for it may have even come about prior to human awareness and that's why you see things in the animal kingdom like cats entering a purring stage prior to death


Firstly, thanks for correting my grammar.  Secondly, there isn't SCIENCE that has actually proof of evolution.  If we all evolved from apes, then how come we aren't super human-alien-primates by now?  And if it does exist, then how or when will it know when to stop.  We'd be evolving forever.   And if It's our thinking pattern,  and I don't think that the afterlife has anything to do with the existence of God.   Only way evolution would work that way for EVERY single major culture that has existed is if something was "magical" pushing everyone to such beliefs.  Food for thought.

Not trying to be demeaning but it's clear you know very little about the mechanics of evolution. That's not a shame considering your young age. But no evolutionary scientist claims we evolved from apes. And yes, life keeps evolving.

Try to be more modest, the smartest scientists in the world know TONS more about this field than you and I, so please don't try to disprove evolution when you have such extremely limited knowledge on the matter.

 Mechanics of evolution!!!!! lets be more realistic here and say that the human who built airplanes and technology is a descent from apes!!!!!! come on.....

why didn’t human evolute to something else in the past 2000 years if this mechanics of evolution really exist?



omg......I really, REALLY hope youre not being serious here, and youre trying to make yourself look like a fool for the lulz.....REALLY



DaRev on 11 February 2013
baph7667 said:
DaRev said:
spaceguy said:
DaRev said:
I honestly don't understand how intelligent people don't believe 'God wrote the Bible'. Like there's some dude or group of dudes out somewhere just thinking up crazy stuff trying to control people, but not ever revealing their identity or group or ever taking the credit, but letting other people like the Church get all the credit o_O

If I wrote the Bible you sure as hell bet I would want the credit and all the royalties! It just doesn't make any sense, to believe that some man or group wrote the bible.



Are you kidding?

 

Why would I be?


Because every claim that's been put forth for the Bible's acuracy has been proven to be incorrect since Gallileo demonstrated that the earth wasn't the center of the universe.

What claims are you talking about that have ben proven incorrect? In any event, it's your CHOICE to accept what is written in the bible, you make yours and I make, so live long and prosper my friend, one day we will all find out whether the bible is true or not.



Nintendo Network ID: DaRevren

I love My Wii U, and the potential it brings to gaming.

Frank_kc on 11 February 2013
SlayerRondo said:
Frank_kc said:
SlayerRondo said:
Frank_kc said:
SlayerRondo said:
ToraTiger said:
Well, there is a lot of things in this World that can't be explained. Like why do birds fly south for the winter? Why do these birds know to sit on their eggs? Why did man 'create' the very first religions? You see, we (Muslims) believe that God exists in all of us. (Even atheists) And that books like the Bible, Torah and others all contain some belief to God presences. In other words; Man has followed religion since the beginning of time, Romans, Egyptians, Chinese, all believe in a greater power. Where Christianity is concern, the Bible has been altered so many ways and so many times that it has lost some of it's divinity. See, this is the cause to all the "Atheists" that have been brought up in recent years. Though it shames me to say it, even Islam has been altered to some extend in certain places. Like the misrepresentation of Jihad. And if someone was to sit down, lose every bit of knowledge of Religion that society has thought them (I believe the alternation of Bible is the key to why so many disbelieve in God) And I'd bet that child would grow up believing in God.

No one seems to care about the "likeliness" of things that are contained in these books and are only concerned with the contradiction that exist, and why wouldn't some exist? It was created in a time where the live style and definition was COMPLETELY different. Not to mention things that could be lost in translation. So to make my point, read a 'clean' Bible, Quran, Torah or anything else, and find "your" definition of it. As I've said before that's why the worlds in it's current Religious state, people feel like Religion is just like their native governments trying to control their life. So instead of living by what you're parents or whoever told you, or what society has fed you, just pick up a book and decide what it means for yourself. As I see a lot of Atheist don't seem to have any sort of knowledge beside the very basics of Christianity. (Christ is God, father, son, holy ghost, he died for our sins ect. )

That said I'm not a Christian.

Lastly, someone just answer me this, if God doesn't exist and we humans are the closest things to it there are, they how come since the beginning of time there have been many ancients praying and yielding to something that doesn't exist ?

I can gaurantee you most christian's and muslim's have not had a real good look through their holy book's because if they hd they woul have seen the long list of internal and external contradiction's with themselves and scientific fact's. You really think that if more people had a godlook at your holy book they would not find themselves embarrassed and disgusted by the god's proclaimed within?

Muslim's probably should have re-written the Quran given how many absurd thing's are kept within it that most people would see as a poorly written piece of fiction. A book that a ritten 1300 year's ago is not proof of the existence of god and most people no believe in it for three reason's

1: Their parent's where folower's of that religion 

2: Their afraid of death and can;t accept a world without god

3: Their culture is unaccepting of athiesm ranging from exclusion all the way to death for apostacy. 

Im guessing that you were simply brought up being taught islam and was imprinted upon you as a child when you were most vulnerable. If you were brought up christian you would be here ingoring the inconsistancy's of the bible and pointing out those of the Quran. 

Check out http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ for a list of contradiction's in the Quran with an open mind.


I am not the best person to respond to the claims of contradiction, but reading some of it (being open minded) tells me that this list is just baloney.

I can give you a couple of examples:

- item 109: Muslims can  adopt orphans ,However they can not change the child's last name to their name as Islam values the identity of the family. You are not the child's bio parents and will never be their parents.

-item 72 is really funny contradiction... so calling a prophet wife an old woman is a contradiction.....

 

As i said, i am not the best person to respond to each one of those items. Since we are trying to be open minded here, if some one tells you something, dont you want to make sure that what he is telling you is right or wrong?? thats the way i view those contradictions..... verify that those are true claims before you make a judgment.


Hmm not surprised you did not start off at the beginning of the list if you truly thought the list was a load of baloney but rather picked and chose which one's you thought made the least sense.

While item 72 is a bit of a strech (the point made on the site does mention that it may just be the wife is the old woman and believe's calling the wife of the supposed prophet that would be rude) but 109 ponit's out that the Quran acknoledges adoption then prohibit's itself.

The claim's about the Quran on that site use's the passages in the Quran to show how they contradict each other so to deny their evidence is to deny the Quran itself. I have seen the contradictions and almost all of them make sense to me and therefore the Quran must contain lie's and falsehood's that a god would not have put in there. If you cannot refute the contradiction's then you simply have to admit that part of the Quran is false and therefore either god screwed up or people made it up/ added their 2 cents.

And coming from someone who is not only a believer in god but a thiest i think that maybe you should take a good hard look at all the thing's that are wrong within your religion. You will find contradiction's within the Quran, between the Quran and history, contradiction's with proven scientific fact and a complete lack of evidence of any divine act of god. 

And just a a reminder as someone making an assertion that your god is true the burden of proof is on you and other religious people to prove the existence of god and a book written over a millenium ago with an absurd amount of contradiction's and a complete lack of physical evidence is not going to cut it. 

I understand that you've been brought up believing in islam and you like many other's have a strong belief and really want it to be true so will twist logic however you can to fit in with a religion that make's less and less sense every year as we learn more and more about the world around us and replace god as an explanation with scientific theory's.

 

I have not picked and select from the list, as I told you, i am not the most experienced person in Islam to respond to the contradiction claims listed on that web page. More examples:

 

- Item 4: i can challenge any one in this world that the Quran said that Muhammad has seen god. The part referenced here 53-1 doesn’t say in any kind of translation that Muhammad has seen god. Here is the a reference with translation to English:

 

http://quran.com/53

It says that Muhammad have seen signs of his lord, not the lord him self.

 

- Item 7: Although the point says that god said that angels cant cause people to die, there is no reference what so ever to this in the Quran like other references of contradiction listed on this website. However, all three references to angles causing people to die ( referenced by chapter in this point) are consistent and accurate.

 

-item 24: The first time when Mary was giving birth to Jesus, there was only one angel who talked to her. The other contradiction which the site claims about a group of angels is different since it was not at the time when she was giving birth to Jesus. There is no single reference in that chapter that indicate that those group of angels who asked Mary to pray to only one god happened when she was giving birth to Jesus.

 

As I said earlier, those are more examples about how baloney are those contradictions. When you need to learn something, learn it from the source and be open minded as you want others to be open minded.

 


You are simply interpreting thing's in a manner to support your claim's rather than looking at thing's from un unbiased perspective.

At this point I'm simply inclined to say that it does not matter what evidence is put forward you will simply twist and turn and interpret things to your liking. 

There was a point when I  really wanted to believe in god and would cling to any explanation for the bible no matter how absurd it may seem to me now that I look at it just like the Quran as a fairy tale. 

Also the Quran's acknoledgement of other religion's being judaism and christianity mean's it has taken large part's of their baguage as well.

And just whilewere at it some of your explanation's for the contradiction's such as it being sign's of god he saw are false. He did see god as claimed in the Quran and therefore the Quran has contradicted itself. As well as the fact that the timing of when the Quran was established and how accurately it represents of muhammad said are widely disputed among historic scholars as well as dissenters not getting a fair say back then when islam was taking off thus we are presented with a biased view of history.

Just look at the state of Islamic lead nation's today and tell me it does not resemble christianity 700 years ago. If allah really did set islam in motion and not people's delusion's/lie's then he is truly an evil god for the pain he has caused through his ambiguity and lackluster attempt to spread his truth.

I rest my case, even when i provided your for the source from the quran, you still insist that Muhammed has seen god. I dont see us going any where with this discussion. did you even open the link I sent you to check whats written there?



Chrizum on 11 February 2013
DaRev said:
baph7667 said:
DaRev said:
spaceguy said:
DaRev said:
I honestly don't understand how intelligent people don't believe 'God wrote the Bible'. Like there's some dude or group of dudes out somewhere just thinking up crazy stuff trying to control people, but not ever revealing their identity or group or ever taking the credit, but letting other people like the Church get all the credit o_O

If I wrote the Bible you sure as hell bet I would want the credit and all the royalties! It just doesn't make any sense, to believe that some man or group wrote the bible.



Are you kidding?

 

Why would I be?


Because every claim that's been put forth for the Bible's acuracy has been proven to be incorrect since Gallileo demonstrated that the earth wasn't the center of the universe.

one day we will all find out whether the bible is true or not.

We already did.