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What types of Guns should we ban?

All Guns 62 24.80%
 
All Guns, make guns legal... 16 6.40%
 
All Guns, in Major Cities... 9 3.60%
 
All Guns, except Hunting Rifles 16 6.40%
 
Just Handguns, they serve... 2 0.80%
 
Just Semi-Auto Rifles, a bit overkill 11 4.40%
 
None, but we should make ... 27 10.80%
 
None, we have a right to carry weapons 43 17.20%
 
None, I still don't beli... 42 16.80%
 
See Results 21 8.40%
 
Total:249
Michael-5 on 05 February 2013
Viper1 said:
Michael-5 said:

I agree about drugs.

Stronger regulations helps prevent people from obtained guns which were originally obtained legally. I'm not sure how hard it is to get a second gun after the first one was stollen, but it should be impossible. Same with families who have a member in the family which doesn't pass a psych test, and same with people who don't need it. Like I said, in Canada I can't get a gun because I'm from a middle class family, and I rarely go to ghetto area's in town.

As for your last point, I agree, but it makes it harder. As an example Marijuanna seeds are legal to buy and sell in Canada.....how f***ed is that? Anyone who wants to grow and sell weed, only needs a trip to the store and a few months of grow time. Ban Marijuanna seeds, and over time, through several drug op busts, weed will be harder to find/grow. I know USA does gun busts, if say handguns were full out illegal, it would be much easier for police to seize pistols.


However I agree, there are many issues which first must be solved before a gun ban. I didn't realize how different the USA is then Canada. I've read about high poverty rates, especially in the south, but I didn't realize you guys had such an incometent/untrustworthy police force, among other factors.

You need to realize that the US is 10 times bigger than Canda.  We have single states with your population.

And you're still looking at illegally obtained guns as having been first purchased legally.    That's not usally the case with the average gun involved crime.

Did you know that the FBI claims that there are 400 million legally owned guns in the US?   Now imagine 2 things.  First, that most gun involved crimes is perpetrated with an illegal gun that was never legally owned by someone else in the first place.   That means the number of illegal guns is also a very huge number.  Second, it would be a logistical impossibility to round up what could be 1 billion firearms.

 

I can tell that your mind is completely set and that you never intended to have a discussion where data could persuade your reasoning.  However, I don't blame you for that either.   This is merely a matter of you growing up under a system and circumstance that is different to the point that differing opinions seem not just alien but irrational.  However, you can't create a thread with a heavy bias and not expect to vehemently confronted by that very circumstance you fail to understand.

You have 1 state with a higher population then Canada...California.

As for illegal guns, I agree, it's a much bigger issue then legal guns. How to round them up.....I dunno, I never realized USA was this messed up in the first place.

As for your third point, maybe the fact that I live in Canada has givin me a heavy Anti-Gun Bias, but on the same token, growing up in the USA has given you a heavy pro-gun Bias. That's how I see it, that's why I am legitimatly shocked to hear so many people south of the boarder so pro gun. In Canada, we just don't see this, people don't use guns here, even for crimes/homicides.

I will demonstate my astonishment at the differences in our culture with the following post.

Jay520 said:
Michael-5 said:

I said Taser, not Taser gun. Maybe in USA they aren't ass effective with rampant obesity, lol, but a Taser will easily knock someone under 300lb out.

OMG Cocaine.....LOL, you're funny.

Mace works effectively on all weight's, and yes they are very effective for self defence. I mean people use Bear Spray (strong Pepper Spray) to stop Bears. If it can stop a bear, it can stop a person.

 

It's not hard to see why tasers and mace aren't as effective as a gun. Imagine a group of thugs broke into your house while your family was sleeping.Which method seems more "effective"?: (a) initiating close-combat with each assaliant using a taser and/or mace spray, or (b) staying at a safe distance and using your gun to scare them off and/or shoot them if they get too close. Which is the more effective method for protecting you and your family?

Say WHAAA????? WTF is going on south of the boarder?

I was actually was talking about something like this, and people in Canada would just let them rob us. One of my close friends said to me only a couple weeks ago, and I quote "I'm not getting into a f***en gun fight over property, just let them take my property, it's not worth risking my life over."

No burgler will kill or even harm a victim who isn't resisting. Heck In Canada, we'd probably open the door for them and thank them for not shooting us.


This is the difference between American and Canadian mentality. You don't need a gun, it's a f***en life you're talking about. Mace works for 1 on 1 encounters just as effectively, and in the extremely rare case of a multi person robbery (rare here), most people would just let the robber steal our stuff, and call the police later.



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HesAPooka on 05 February 2013
Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
Michael-5 said:
Kasz216 said:

All available credible science shows that banning guns will accomplish nothing, and in fact likely makes the problem worse.

So your own disbelief mostly seems to stem from your lack of researching regarding the topic.

You'd find more scientific evidence to suggest banning videogames then you would guns.

Uhh... Really, that's your counter? I tell you that countries with laws that have lenient gun control polocies, and countries with free boarders to these countries have high high homicide rates, and countries with strict boarders do not, using your own data, and you say...

"My data says otherwise, despite you using it to make these claims."

WOW

Here, I'll give examples: Strict Boarders and strong regulations

Country-Homicide Rate

Australia-1.0
New Zealand-0.9
Japan-0.4
Hong Kong-0.2
Macau-0.7
South Korea-2.6
China-1.0
Canada-1.6
IceLand-0.3

Weak Regulations, or Weak Boarder Control
USA-4.8
North Korea-15.2 (LOL I had to add it)
Mexico-22.7
Russia-10.2

BTW, Drugs are a much much bigger incfluence on homicide rates. The two regions of the world with the highest homicide rates are South America and West Africa. This is why Mexico's homicide rate is so high despite strong regulations (lots of smuggling). Even when you look at US states, while Nevada has a high homicide rate and gun ownership rate, it's also got a lot of drug related problems, same with Puerto Rico.

Kasz216 said:

The US has as far as i know the lowest amount of "Hot" home invasions... aka robberies in which people are home when robbed.  In the US you don't rob someone unless you are 100% sure they aren't home because criminals are more afraid of homeowners then police. (actual study).

You're also 3 times more likely to get shot when there is a home robbery when you carry a firearm vs. when you don't. I also really doubt USA's "Hot" Home Invasion rate is lower then Canadas.

A)Mexico and Russia both have some of the strictist gun control policies in the world... and Russia polices the hell out of it's borders.  If you want to debate this stuff you should really be researching it rather then just making assumptions on who does what based on what thier murder rates are.

B) In the UK it's about 4 times more likely that you end up in a "hot invasion".   Not sure about Canada but there is no reason to suggest it would be otherwise. People are more likely to break into your house while your there if they are convinced you aren't going to shoot them.  How is that not common sense?

They are also two of the most corrupt countries, and quite poor as well. Police in both countries can easily be bought off. When comparing gun violence in the US we should compare them to other developed countires such as: Canada, England, Norway, Sweden, and Japan. Not Russia, and Mexico.


You wouldn't consider Mexico and espiecally Russia developed nations?  What definition are you using for the term?

When compairing the USA to other OCED countries you get one result.  The US is a big outlier in homicides   Remove them from the equation and you end up with a very slight correlation that shows more firearms = less homicide.   With them in the equation you get the exact opposite.

End result?    A lot of people get murdered in the US with guns, because a lot of people get murdered in the US.  Why?   Look at who's doing it. 

It ONLY works with homicides afterall.

Violent crime wise.


Look at how much more violent a country Canada is compaired to America... doesn't fit perceptions, huh?


Russia developed? Maybe 30 years ago. Now you have a corrupt country with massive poverty in certain parts of the country.
I'd love to see a link to where you got that graph from.



I was walking down along the street and I heard this voice saying, "Good evening, Mr. Dowd." Well, I turned around and here was this big six-foot rabbit leaning up against a lamp-post. Well, I thought nothing of that because when you've lived in a town as long as I've lived in this one, you get used to the fact that everybody knows your name.

Kasz216 on 05 February 2013
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
HesAPooka said:
Kasz216 said:
Michael-5 said:
Kasz216 said:

All available credible science shows that banning guns will accomplish nothing, and in fact likely makes the problem worse.

So your own disbelief mostly seems to stem from your lack of researching regarding the topic.

You'd find more scientific evidence to suggest banning videogames then you would guns.

Uhh... Really, that's your counter? I tell you that countries with laws that have lenient gun control polocies, and countries with free boarders to these countries have high high homicide rates, and countries with strict boarders do not, using your own data, and you say...

"My data says otherwise, despite you using it to make these claims."

WOW

Here, I'll give examples: Strict Boarders and strong regulations

Country-Homicide Rate

Australia-1.0
New Zealand-0.9
Japan-0.4
Hong Kong-0.2
Macau-0.7
South Korea-2.6
China-1.0
Canada-1.6
IceLand-0.3

Weak Regulations, or Weak Boarder Control
USA-4.8
North Korea-15.2 (LOL I had to add it)
Mexico-22.7
Russia-10.2

BTW, Drugs are a much much bigger incfluence on homicide rates. The two regions of the world with the highest homicide rates are South America and West Africa. This is why Mexico's homicide rate is so high despite strong regulations (lots of smuggling). Even when you look at US states, while Nevada has a high homicide rate and gun ownership rate, it's also got a lot of drug related problems, same with Puerto Rico.

Kasz216 said:

The US has as far as i know the lowest amount of "Hot" home invasions... aka robberies in which people are home when robbed.  In the US you don't rob someone unless you are 100% sure they aren't home because criminals are more afraid of homeowners then police. (actual study).

You're also 3 times more likely to get shot when there is a home robbery when you carry a firearm vs. when you don't. I also really doubt USA's "Hot" Home Invasion rate is lower then Canadas.

A)Mexico and Russia both have some of the strictist gun control policies in the world... and Russia polices the hell out of it's borders.  If you want to debate this stuff you should really be researching it rather then just making assumptions on who does what based on what thier murder rates are.

B) In the UK it's about 4 times more likely that you end up in a "hot invasion".   Not sure about Canada but there is no reason to suggest it would be otherwise. People are more likely to break into your house while your there if they are convinced you aren't going to shoot them.  How is that not common sense?

They are also two of the most corrupt countries, and quite poor as well. Police in both countries can easily be bought off. When comparing gun violence in the US we should compare them to other developed countires such as: Canada, England, Norway, Sweden, and Japan. Not Russia, and Mexico.


You wouldn't consider Mexico and espiecally Russia developed nations?  What definition are you using for the term?

When compairing the USA to other OCED countries you get one result.  The US is a big outlier in homicides   Remove them from the equation and you end up with a very slight correlation that shows more firearms = less homicide.   With them in the equation you get the exact opposite.

End result?    A lot of people get murdered in the US with guns, because a lot of people get murdered in the US.  Why?   Look at who's doing it. 

It ONLY works with homicides afterall.

Violent crime wise.


Look at how much more violent a country Canada is compaired to America... doesn't fit perceptions, huh?


Russia developed? Maybe 30 years ago. Now you have a corrupt country with massive poverty in certain parts of the country.
I'd love to see a link to where you got that graph from.

Russia is still a developed nation...

Also.

http://www.csdp.org/research/hosb1203.pdf

 

For a more recent one.

http://mops.gov.il/English/ResearchAndDevelopmentENG/Pages/ViolenceIndex.aspx

 



dsgrue3 on 06 February 2013
Michael-5 said:

B) I half agree on you, without a gun, troubled individuals don't have the means to go on murder sprees.

D) How is rape victim unreliable? Not really trading homicide for rape, there is a large increase in homicides, and gun related crimes, plus a small increas in assault, and the trade off is a small increase in rape. Like I said as well, with an obesity rate as high as USA's....Is that a good reason why Rape is lower?

D-II) Yea, but if border security was that good, why do you have so many illegal imigrants? I'm under the impression that southern boarders are more poorly controled then USA/Canada's. I mean how often does a stray Cuban cross our shores?

??? To your last comment, I think all guns in general, except Rifles, should be banned. Also, my thread isn't specific towards legal/illegal gun ownership. I'm saying that USA would be a lot better off if you suddenly removed all handguns, from criminals, and law abiding citizens.

I do agree though that illegal guns are a much bigger issue then legally obtained ones, but legally obtained weapons have their way of finding themselves in the hands of a criminal. So I still think all guns should be banned, so criminals don't get legally purchased guns, through illegal means.

F) Yea, yea, but 1 case is not enough to counter my point. Mass Murders are not an accepted, or common thing in Canada, not like in the USA.

B) How can you half agree? If there are suddenly mass stabbings are you going to take away knives? Mass killings via shovel? Take away shovels?

D) Read the fine print, as I suggested. It explicitly states that rape crime is more reliable and in that regard, Canada is 15x worse than US.

D-II) It's easy to get into Canada - hard to get back in to the US FROM Canada. Why would a Cuban travel an additional thousand miles to get to Canada for a colder climate and nothing of value? Your argument is nonsensical as usual.

???? My last comment was in regard to your comment. Short memory? I'll remind you what you said:

Michael-5 said:

Why not just ban handguns?

I don't just randomly throw out arguments like you. Maybe try recalling what random, ill-conceived arguments you make.

Yeah, let's punish law-abiding citizens because of criminals. Do you even read what nonsense you spew?

F) You said 0 mass shootings in Canada. I cited 2. You were wrong. Own it.



Michael-5 on 06 February 2013
dsgrue3 said:
Michael-5 said:

B) I half agree on you, without a gun, troubled individuals don't have the means to go on murder sprees.

D) How is rape victim unreliable? Not really trading homicide for rape, there is a large increase in homicides, and gun related crimes, plus a small increas in assault, and the trade off is a small increase in rape. Like I said as well, with an obesity rate as high as USA's....Is that a good reason why Rape is lower?

D-II) Yea, but if border security was that good, why do you have so many illegal imigrants? I'm under the impression that southern boarders are more poorly controled then USA/Canada's. I mean how often does a stray Cuban cross our shores?

??? To your last comment, I think all guns in general, except Rifles, should be banned. Also, my thread isn't specific towards legal/illegal gun ownership. I'm saying that USA would be a lot better off if you suddenly removed all handguns, from criminals, and law abiding citizens.

I do agree though that illegal guns are a much bigger issue then legally obtained ones, but legally obtained weapons have their way of finding themselves in the hands of a criminal. So I still think all guns should be banned, so criminals don't get legally purchased guns, through illegal means.

F) Yea, yea, but 1 case is not enough to counter my point. Mass Murders are not an accepted, or common thing in Canada, not like in the USA.

B) How can you half agree? If there are suddenly mass stabbings are you going to take away knives? Mass killings via shovel? Take away shovels?

D) Read the fine print, as I suggested. It explicitly states that rape crime is more reliable and in that regard, Canada is 15x worse than US.

D-II) It's easy to get into Canada - hard to get back in to the US FROM Canada. Why would a Cuban travel an additional thousand miles to get to Canada for a colder climate and nothing of value? Your argument is nonsensical as usual.

???? My last comment was in regard to your comment. Short memory? I'll remind you what you said:

Michael-5 said:

Why not just ban handguns?

 

I don't just randomly throw out arguments like you. Maybe try recalling what random, ill-conceived arguments you make.

Yeah, let's punish law-abiding citizens because of criminals. Do you even read what nonsense you spew?

F) You said 0 mass shootings in Canada. I cited 2. You were wrong. Own it.

 

B) How many people could you kill with a Mass Shoveling? LOL. A gun is just too easy of a mean to kill people, a Knife requires effort, and some physique. So yes, I agree you need to work on a lot of issues in the USA, Education, Mental Health, Resprct, and Tolerance, but that's going to take a long time to fix....Why not make it much harder to get guns until then?

D) I love your math . All it says in the bottom is Crime Statistics are more reliable then Victim ones, but you know what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Boom, I wikipedia'd your ass and USA has a higher Rape rate then Canada by 15X (USA is 27.7 per 100,000, Canada is 1.7)

Also, lets gun some gun statistics because like I said killing in self defence, or my accident (e.g. Young children shooting themselves) are not included in Homicide rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Per 100,000

USA has 10.2 Gun related Deaths, 3.6 Gun Related Homicides, 6.3 Gun Related Suicides, and 0.3 Unintentional/Undertermined Deaths
Can has 2.13 Gun related Deaths, 0.5 Gun Related Homicodes, 1.8 Gun Related Suicides, and 0.4 Unintentional/Undetermined Deaths.

So your 7X more likely to be shot, and you'll see about 3X as many suicides with guns.

You also showed me that USA has more assaults per Capita.

So yes, USA is more violent.

D-II) Canada doesn't have many illegal immigrants. Cubas don't travel thousands of kilometers to attempt to enter Canada when USA is there. Think a bit when I make a hyperbole example.

As about my point about banning handguns, that's not an arguement, it's a question. LOL Why not just ban handguns if Americans are so pro gun, and it's so important to have guns.

You're funny.



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the2real4mafol on 06 February 2013

I don't know if banning guns would do any good or be worth the effort. The lunatics will still get their guns somehow, just look at the last major massacre. Background checks should be there for every purchase, as well as a mental health check and limits on magazine sizes and ammo types. There should be similar regulations for guns as there is cars.

I believe gun ownership should really be a privilege not a right. It's no longer necessary to own a weapon to survive, but it really is your own choice and you should be responsible with that choice. I say this as banning alcohol in the 1920's never worked, and banning many drugs and prostitution hasn't worked. If anything, it has lead to low crime, in countries where it is legal.



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thranx on 06 February 2013
Michael-5 said:
Kasz216 said:
 


Again you are just making shit up.  Taser's are nowhere near as effective as guns because it can actually be pretty hard to hit somebody with both darts... and even if you do hit them, if they're big enough or have drugs in them it might not bother them that much.

http://forums.officer.com/t34616/

Gives a few examples of taser issues.

Heck, a few layers of clothing can defeat a taser.

I said Taser, not Taser gun. Maybe in USA they aren't ass effective with rampant obesity, lol, but a Taser will easily knock someone under 300lb out.

OMG Cocaine.....LOL, you're funny.

Mace works effectively on all weight's, and yes they are very effective for self defence. I mean people use Bear Spray (strong Pepper Spray) to stop Bears. If it can stop a bear, it can stop a person.

Just as effective, and involve no killing. Gee, what a terrible solution, I'm such a big anti-gun nut that I just can't see the advantages of guns..


I just don't understand you pro gun Americans. Everytime I talk to people in Canada, be it a cop, or another person, no one would even even consider a gun for self defence here. We understand guns are dangerous, but you...just always have an excuse. You don't need guns, who cares if you have a right to bear arms, you don't need it. It's not like Alcohol, it helps no one.


no it doesn't.  I have been in bar fights where mace/pepper spray was sprayed inside the fight inside the bar. it stopped no one(police/army strength may be stronger, but as a civillian we cant use those for defense either so it doesn't matter). Tasers are only usefull once someone is with in arms reach, wich is close enough to grab a arm that holds a taser and render it useless.

 

Edit: I'll also add that anyone who wants to ban guns please take a walk through downtown la, or compton, or any gang infested block at night and tell me what you think when you are done. the United States has a gang violence problem, not a gun problem. The gangs get their guns from illegal sources in the US or when they buy their drugs from the mexicans. Banning guns will not impede their ability to purchase them in any way as the guns they buy are illegal, come from illegal sources, and come from a country we have no juridstiction in. So until there is a closed border with no drug/people/weapon smuggling any leglislation is useless. Thses weapons will be bought from people drugs dealer instead of a gun shop or show. On top of closing the border we would have to remove the need for gangs to exist, which is drugs. With out the drugs there would be no reason for gangs, with no gangs there would be less violence and less deaths (as most gun deaths occur in cities with gangs). so if your really anti violence and really want to savbe lives you should be pushing for better drug laws, and for closing and securing the border. But I dont see many polititions who are anti gun being pro closing border so nothing will change.



Michael-5 on 06 February 2013
thranx said:
Michael-5 said:

I said Taser, not Taser gun. Maybe in USA they aren't ass effective with rampant obesity, lol, but a Taser will easily knock someone under 300lb out.

OMG Cocaine.....LOL, you're funny.

Mace works effectively on all weight's, and yes they are very effective for self defence. I mean people use Bear Spray (strong Pepper Spray) to stop Bears. If it can stop a bear, it can stop a person.

Just as effective, and involve no killing. Gee, what a terrible solution, I'm such a big anti-gun nut that I just can't see the advantages of guns..


I just don't understand you pro gun Americans. Everytime I talk to people in Canada, be it a cop, or another person, no one would even even consider a gun for self defence here. We understand guns are dangerous, but you...just always have an excuse. You don't need guns, who cares if you have a right to bear arms, you don't need it. It's not like Alcohol, it helps no one.


no it doesn't.  I have been in bar fights where mace/pepper spray was sprayed inside the fight inside the bar. it stopped no one(police/army strength may be stronger, but as a civillian we cant use those for defense either so it doesn't matter). Tasers are only usefull once someone is with in arms reach, wich is close enough to grab a arm that holds a taser and render it useless.

 

Edit: I'll also add that anyone who wants to ban guns please take a walk through downtown la, or compton, or any gang infested block at night and tell me what you think when you are done. the United States has a gang violence problem, not a gun problem. The gangs get their guns from illegal sources in the US or when they buy their drugs from the mexicans. Banning guns will not impede their ability to purchase them in any way as the guns they buy are illegal, come from illegal sources, and come from a country we have no juridstiction in. So until there is a closed border with no drug/people/weapon smuggling any leglislation is useless. Thses weapons will be bought from people drugs dealer instead of a gun shop or show. On top of closing the border we would have to remove the need for gangs to exist, which is drugs. With out the drugs there would be no reason for gangs, with no gangs there would be less violence and less deaths (as most gun deaths occur in cities with gangs). so if your really anti violence and really want to savbe lives you should be pushing for better drug laws, and for closing and securing the border. But I dont see many polititions who are anti gun being pro closing border so nothing will change.

Pepper Spray is available in different concentrations. One of my friends tried it out to see if it worked, 300lb, down in a second. Tasers work too, but you gotta hold them down.

As for your edit, yea, maybe in those neighbourhoods you need one. However that doesn't mean you shouldn't have stricter Gun Regulations. In Canada, if you don't live or work in a high crime neighbourhood, it's much harder to get a gun, and it should be like that in the States.

I also said countless times that Drugs are a much bigger issue then Guns.



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thranx on 06 February 2013
Michael-5 said:
thranx said:
Michael-5 said:

I said Taser, not Taser gun. Maybe in USA they aren't ass effective with rampant obesity, lol, but a Taser will easily knock someone under 300lb out.

OMG Cocaine.....LOL, you're funny.

Mace works effectively on all weight's, and yes they are very effective for self defence. I mean people use Bear Spray (strong Pepper Spray) to stop Bears. If it can stop a bear, it can stop a person.

Just as effective, and involve no killing. Gee, what a terrible solution, I'm such a big anti-gun nut that I just can't see the advantages of guns..


I just don't understand you pro gun Americans. Everytime I talk to people in Canada, be it a cop, or another person, no one would even even consider a gun for self defence here. We understand guns are dangerous, but you...just always have an excuse. You don't need guns, who cares if you have a right to bear arms, you don't need it. It's not like Alcohol, it helps no one.


no it doesn't.  I have been in bar fights where mace/pepper spray was sprayed inside the fight inside the bar. it stopped no one(police/army strength may be stronger, but as a civillian we cant use those for defense either so it doesn't matter). Tasers are only usefull once someone is with in arms reach, wich is close enough to grab a arm that holds a taser and render it useless.

 

Edit: I'll also add that anyone who wants to ban guns please take a walk through downtown la, or compton, or any gang infested block at night and tell me what you think when you are done. the United States has a gang violence problem, not a gun problem. The gangs get their guns from illegal sources in the US or when they buy their drugs from the mexicans. Banning guns will not impede their ability to purchase them in any way as the guns they buy are illegal, come from illegal sources, and come from a country we have no juridstiction in. So until there is a closed border with no drug/people/weapon smuggling any leglislation is useless. Thses weapons will be bought from people drugs dealer instead of a gun shop or show. On top of closing the border we would have to remove the need for gangs to exist, which is drugs. With out the drugs there would be no reason for gangs, with no gangs there would be less violence and less deaths (as most gun deaths occur in cities with gangs). so if your really anti violence and really want to savbe lives you should be pushing for better drug laws, and for closing and securing the border. But I dont see many polititions who are anti gun being pro closing border so nothing will change.

Pepper Spray is available in different concentrations. One of my friends tried it out to see if it worked, 300lb, down in a second. Tasers work too, but you gotta hold them down.

As for your edit, yea, maybe in those neighbourhoods you need one. However that doesn't mean you shouldn't have stricter Gun Regulations. In Canada, if you don't live or work in a high crime neighbourhood, it's much harder to get a gun, and it should be like that in the States.

I also said countless times that Drugs are a much bigger issue then Guns.

It is, but its just not very effective, especially on someone who is angered, or under the influence of drugs. I am sure getting the chance to directly spray a non angered non moving person gets results, but some one who is attacking, charging, and mmoving, and blicking there eyes will not be effected as much. If anything its better to use wasp spray, as I tell any one I care about wasp spray is the best self defence weapon next to a gun. Again with a tazer you have to hold it down, you have to be with in arms reach. Having brother and sisters I know how easy it is to grab and disable a persons arm so they cant hurt you with something. This makes it an ineefective self defence weapon where you are dealing with someone who is holding still.



dsgrue3 on 06 February 2013
Michael-5 said:

B) How many people could you kill with a Mass Shoveling? LOL. A gun is just too easy of a mean to kill people, a Knife requires effort, and some physique. So yes, I agree you need to work on a lot of issues in the USA, Education, Mental Health, Resprct, and Tolerance, but that's going to take a long time to fix....Why not make it much harder to get guns until then?

D) I love your math . All it says in the bottom is Crime Statistics are more reliable then Victim ones, but you know what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Boom, I wikipedia'd your ass and USA has a higher Rape rate then Canada by 15X (USA is 27.7 per 100,000, Canada is 1.7)

Also, lets gun some gun statistics because like I said killing in self defence, or my accident (e.g. Young children shooting themselves) are not included in Homicide rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Per 100,000

USA has 10.2 Gun related Deaths, 3.6 Gun Related Homicides, 6.3 Gun Related Suicides, and 0.3 Unintentional/Undertermined Deaths
Can has 2.13 Gun related Deaths, 0.5 Gun Related Homicodes, 1.8 Gun Related Suicides, and 0.4 Unintentional/Undetermined Deaths.

So your 7X more likely to be shot, and you'll see about 3X as many suicides with guns.

You also showed me that USA has more assaults per Capita.

So yes, USA is more violent.

D-II) Canada doesn't have many illegal immigrants. Cubas don't travel thousands of kilometers to attempt to enter Canada when USA is there. Think a bit when I make a hyperbole example.

As about my point about banning handguns, that's not an arguement, it's a question. LOL Why not just ban handguns if Americans are so pro gun, and it's so important to have guns.

You're funny.

B) Nice strawman argument. Read about Japan mass stabbing and get a clue:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=80964&page=1

D) What math? It says it isn't as reliable, so you use the actual crime statistics that aren't open to interpretation like this source that I've already posted:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes

And not a wikipedia entry that says this:

This list[5] indicates the number of, and per capita cases of recorded rape. It does not include cases of rape which go unreported, or which are not recorded.[6] Nor does it specify whether recorded means reported, brought to trial, or convicted. Nor does it take the different definition of rape around the world into account.

Assault was basically a wash - 786 vs. 737, in other words, not statistically significant. 

Simply listing gun crime is meaningless to the discussion. Obviously gun crime is higher in the US. Did you have a point?

D-II) Yeah, kid, that's exactly what I said. They don't travel to Canada because it's an additional thousand miles.

E) Why would we ban hand guns? You ask questions without making an argument? Weird. Well, if you aren't arguing anything, no need to respond.