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Forums - General Discussion - If you are against gay marriage, explain why without mentioning religion

 

Are you for or against gay marriage?

For 290 49.49%
 
Against 171 29.18%
 
don't know 16 2.73%
 
whatever who cares? 108 18.43%
 
Total:585
Player1x3 on 23 January 2013
timmah said:
warlord74 said:
Bible = word of God
Jesus = God
Thus Jesus speaks out against homosexuality in the following passages. Fordy the truth will set you free.
Matthew 19:1-8
Romans 1:18-32
1Cor 6:9-11
Galatians 5:19

The only thing in that list that is actually a quote of Jesus is Matthew 19, but that is just a discussion of divorce and doesn't mention homosexuality at all. In Romans 1, Paul was actually addressing a historical practice where the Romans engaged in open male prostitution, including with young boys, in worship of their fertility God... you didn't take that in context. The original greek word used in 1 Cor 6:9 comes from the greek word malakoi, which can sometimes be translated  'effeminate', which was also (possibly) incorrectly translated to 'homosexuals'. One usage of that term in the context of morality at the time it was written was to describe people who are weak-spined, lazy, decadent, seeking only their own pleasure, and/or lacking courage. It did not necessarily have a sexual connotation in that context, but could instead be describing character traits. Another possibility is that the word refers to grown men of the time who participated in the prostitution & sex-slave trade of young boys, I think we can all agree this is wrong. Many of the homosexual acts of that time were not anything like the modern gay community. Young boys were commonly used as prostitutes or sex slaves, and it would make sense to speak out against this practice. There's a passage somewhere in the book of Timothy that, if you look at the greek, seems to reference the sex-slavery aspect. Galatians 5:19 speaks of sexual immorality, but there is no specific reference to homosexuality.

How fucking dare you bringing historical knowledge and context into Bible quoting?  The intellectually superior 13-16 year old free thinkers of reddit and vgchartz taught us that Christianity is the ultimate evil and it should be exterminated from our society together with all it's followers.



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warlord74 on 23 January 2013

Timmah can you tell me what these passages mean?

Ezekiel ch 33 versus 7 -9
Matthew Ch 18 versus 15- 18



timmah on 23 January 2013
warlord74 said:
Timmah can you tell me what these passages mean?

Ezekiel ch 33 versus 7 -9
Matthew Ch 18 versus 15- 18

Are you trying to say we should tell people outside the faith they're 'sinners'? If so, you're reacing, a lot. The only people Jesus ever called out were the judgemental, pious, overly religious pharisees.

The first one is from the old testament (old covenant) which was done away with. We don't have to refrain from eating pork, wear only certain types of clothing, observe religious feasts, or follow any of those other rules that the Isrealites followed, so you can't just pick the parts you like out of the old testament and use them. Also, that passage was talking about a specific prophet who was given a specific message for a specific people (his people, the isrealites).

The one in Matthew is referring to talking to 'our brothers', meaning others in the faith, about their faults for their good. If you have a Christian 'brother or sister' who is having an issue that damages their witness or well being, it would be a good idea to talk to them about it and help them through it if you are close enough to them for this to be appropriate. This would not be judging them, but 'speaking the truth in love' so as to help them become a better person. Keep in mind this is not a free pass to go tell everybody around you what you think they've done wrong. There's a reason why Jesus said not to point out the speck in your brother's eye when you have a plank (or splinter) in your own. We all have our own issues, so we're not in any position to be the judge of others.



warlord74 on 23 January 2013

So you do not follow the old testament? You know the 10 commandments? I am confused.

So as a christian you need to judge another Christians behavior in order to tell them having an issue that damages their witness or well being, it would be a good idea to talk to them about it and help them through it if you are close enough to them for this to be appropriate.

I think you are misinterpreting the bible. When the bible talks about judging I and most of historical Christianity believe it refers to one's salvation. I do not know whether you are going to heaven or hell only God knows that. But if my brother is doing something objectively wrong such as murder I can objectivity judge his action as wrong and have an obligation to inform him to change his ways. I can quote fathers of the church, several theologians that express this view.

Peace.



timmah on 23 January 2013
warlord74 said:
So you do not follow the old testament? You know the 10 commandments? I am confused.

So as a christian you need to judge another Christians behavior in order to tell them having an issue that damages their witness or well being, it would be a good idea to talk to them about it and help them through it if you are close enough to them for this to be appropriate.

I think you are misinterpreting the bible. When the bible talks about judging I and most of historical Christianity believe it refers to one's salvation. I do not know whether you are going to heaven or hell only God knows that. But if my brother is doing something objectively wrong such as murder I can objectivity judge his action as wrong and have an obligation to inform him to change his ways. I can quote fathers of the church, several theologians that express this view.

Peace.

There's a difference between the 10 commandments, and things like levitical law and other old testament laws & traditions.

"Do not judge lest you be judged" - Jesus



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Player1x3 on 25 January 2013
fordy said:
Player1x3 said:


Wow, you're pretty desperate. The difference between you and me is that i didn't attack, flame, provoke or name call you or anyone for having a different opinion than me whereas you constantly flamed killerzx and timmah for disagreeing with you. Are you able to comprehend this difference?

And bigotry isn't necessarily tied to a group of people. You can just as easily be a bigot towards an individual. Although if you're interested in groups, i'd say it's pretty obvious that you seem to be a bigot towards a group of people who have different opinion than you on the subject..

If you don't like my method of arguingm, then don't step in. However, it's a pretty long shot to be calling argumentative methods as bigotry. Even peaceful means of intolerance are still classed as bigotry. As you'll see in the definition, it defines that bigotry must have a level of intolerance.

Hahaha, wow, you really are a piece  of work, you know that? I serioulsy laughed after reading this part for a bit. 

I didnt step in into your ''debate''. I didnt even quote you. And ''argumentive methods''?? Really? Is that what you call attacking, flaming and insulting people? Oh my God, how can you possibly prove my and timmah's point any better?  Can you even hear yourself ??? Why didnt you post this before, so that I could know for sure not to waste my time here anymore?

You certanly are intolerant towards anyone that disagress with you on the subject, so far you have proven this quite well and multiple times already.

YOUR intolerance came by initially posting such a flame with such idiocy as not to provide any kind of justification behind it.

I think this post you made (together with few others) is more than enough of a justification.

So in other words, you're saying I'm bigoted towards a group of people I disagree with? Once again, that would make EVERYONE a bigot (including you. Surprise surprise).

Disagreeing is one thing, attacking and calling someone names is completly other.  You can disagree with someone without calling him a bigot and comparing him to Hitler. I know this is a hard concept to grasp for people like you who have an ego so out of whack that it'll do anything to protect itself, but at least try to acknowledge it. If I say ''I think MW2 is better than MW3'' and you say ''I think MW3 is better'', that would be a normal disagreement. If you procced to say that I am a bigot and Hitler-like for disagreeing with you, than YOU are intolerant and thus bigot.

Whether it comes out as agressive or as annoying as your illogical posts are, it's still bigotry by your definition. What you fail to see is that I'm arguing with one on a completely different matter to the other poster.

What you were arguing over with is irrelevant. You were adressing BOTH posters with a complete lack of human respect and a very hostile attitude.

Besides, are you implying that these guys are in some kind of anti-gay group? Also, the thought of arguing that someone is intolerable for not standing the views of an "anti" group (ie. one that displays the INITIAL intolerance to said group), is outright ironic and laughable.

Except that they weren't ''anti gay group''. You were ''anti other opinnion'' group..

Are you seriously going to try to argue your way down this dead end? 

Oh hell no,im out for good





warlord74 on 25 January 2013

timmah

In order to correct someone one has to judge that person's behavior. Below is some reading for you tell me where they are wrong.

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3033.htm



metroidking on 25 January 2013

no marriage is between a man and woman period thats it enough said, if you make gay marriage sweet then your changing the meaning of what marriage is and then where do you draw line. Why dont we just let 5 yr old kids get married and let people marry animals its just stupid. if they wanna have a partnership call it something else cause its not marriage. Its like me pointing at my computer and calling it a prosthetic limb when its clearly not. Marriage is going down the drain anyway divorce rate rising and people dont even respect the ritual and what it represents, if gay marriage is accepted worldwide it will be the nail in the coffin to marriage.



MrBubbles on 26 January 2013
metroidking said:
no marriage is between a man and woman period thats it enough said, if you make gay marriage sweet then your changing the meaning of what marriage is and then where do you draw line. Why dont we just let 5 yr old kids get married and let people marry animals its just stupid. if they wanna have a partnership call it something else cause its not marriage. Its like me pointing at my computer and calling it a prosthetic limb when its clearly not. Marriage is going down the drain anyway divorce rate rising and people dont even respect the ritual and what it represents, if gay marriage is accepted worldwide it will be the nail in the coffin to marriage.


its funny seeing people ignorant of the history of marriage talk like this.



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Cirio on 26 January 2013
metroidking said:
no marriage is between a man and woman period thats it enough said, if you make gay marriage sweet then your changing the meaning of what marriage is and then where do you draw line. Why dont we just let 5 yr old kids get married and let people marry animals its just stupid. if they wanna have a partnership call it something else cause its not marriage. Its like me pointing at my computer and calling it a prosthetic limb when its clearly not. Marriage is going down the drain anyway divorce rate rising and people dont even respect the ritual and what it represents, if gay marriage is accepted worldwide it will be the nail in the coffin to marriage.

Says who? Who are you, or anyone else to say who can get married or not? What gives you, or anyone else that authority to take away someone's natural right of living a loved life?

As for the 5 year old or animal example, that's just silly. Marriage between two consenting gay partners is NOT the same as marriage between 1 consenting individual or 1 non-consenting individual.

Finally for the divorce rate, have you even looked at how low the divorce rate is for gay couples? Going by your point, we should ban people like Kim Kardashian or Jennifer Lopez from marrying because they are funneling marriage "down the drain" by divorcing so many times and disrespecting the "ritual" of marriage.