Bolded, this is absolute nonsense. You don't seem to even understand how Live works. Matches are setup with dedicated servers and P2P servers. This is no different than PSN. Furthermore, it is entirely up to the developer as to whether or not the game will use P2P or dedicated servers. 

If you don't understand this fundamental mechanism, don't comment. Otherwise you just appear foolish. =)

Don't like Xbox Live? Don't pay for it or just don't get an Xbox. Luckily for those consumers, they have alternatives/choices. The price for XBL is clearly working for MS and it's working extremely well I might add. So what exactly is the incentive to change it? They'd just lose more money that people obviously have no issue paying.

Actually, you don't seem to have any clue how PSN and Live work so prepare to look ever more "foolish" =)

Yes, I am aware they use P2P or dedicated servers, but what you don't seem to realize is that MATCHMAKING, ACHIEVEMENTS, TRUESKILL, etc. all use servers. If Microsoft had no matchmaking servers, you would only be able to P2P to one game manually at a time or via a list. You could not go to "Find Game" and have the system automatically find you one, ever... Same with dedicated servers. Without matchmaking you would have to go in and manually select a server to join. Also without matchmaking servers and framework you would never have the ability to "Join in progress" a friend no matter where you are or what game you are playing.

Without Trueskill servers, you would be paired up with anyone and everyone rather than based on similar skill levels. Then you have to also tie directly into Xbox Live for Achievement tracking. With Xbox Live, Microsoft does all this work for the developers. They foot the bill and provide all the matchmaking and trueskill servers as well as the achievement tracking framework.

With PSN, each individual developer has to create and maintain their own set of matchmaking servers, their own set of skill tracking. This is why on PSN each and every multiplayer game is different from one another when it comes to finding and joining games. This is why some games allow you to join your friends, some don't at all, some require you to be partied up first as the only way to play with a friend. Some have abilities to mute while some don't. Some have Ok matchmaking systems while others seem to take FOREVER to find games and even then, all the opponents seem to be unevenly matched.

With Xbox Live, you get all of this no matter what developer you are, thanks to dear old Microsoft.

What is the phrase, now? Ah yes, "You have been served." 

You've described the overlay...and avoided the basic principles...proving you're clearly devoid of rational discussion.

 If "Match-making" is what you're paying $50 a year for, and not the actual network (P2P/Dedicated), then I think you can understand the issue with the "service". If the "service" is the match-making and other features, and not the actual servers (P2P/Dedicated) why is there no differentiation between the two?

Does that help you understand?

"Actually, you don't seem to have any clue how PSN and Live work so prepare to look ever more "foolish" =)

Yes, I am aware they use P2P or dedicated servers, but what you don't seem to realize is that MATCHMAKING, ACHIEVEMENTS, TRUESKILL, etc. all use servers. If Microsoft had no matchmaking servers, you would only be able to P2P to one game manually at a time or via a list. You could not go to "Find Game" and have the system automatically find you one, ever... Same with dedicated servers. Without matchmaking you would have to go in and manually select a server to join. Also without matchmaking servers and framework you would never have the ability to "Join in progress" a friend no matter where you are or what game you are playing.

Without Trueskill servers, you would be paired up with anyone and everyone rather than based on similar skill levels. Then you have to also tie directly into Xbox Live for Achievement tracking. With Xbox Live, Microsoft does all this work for the developers. They foot the bill and provide all the matchmaking and trueskill servers as well as the achievement tracking framework.

With PSN, each individual developer has to create and maintain their own set of matchmaking servers, their own set of skill tracking. This is why on PSN each and every multiplayer game is different from one another when it comes to finding and joining games. This is why some games allow you to join your friends, some don't at all, some require you to be partied up first as the only way to play with a friend. Some have abilities to mute while some don't. Some have Ok matchmaking systems while others seem to take FOREVER to find games and even then, all the opponents seem to be unevenly matched.

With Xbox Live, you get all of this no matter what developer you are, thanks to dear old Microsoft.

What is the phrase, now? Ah yes, "You have been served." "

Served indeed.

You hit the nail on the head regarding matchmaking and TrueSkill and the others. It's one of the best things about Live, you know that no matter what game you buy, you have an extensive set of features that the game will support and you know that the matchmaking will be extremely fast and reliable. On PSN you have no idea. A big case of this is Guardians of Middle Earth. I made the mistake of buying the PS3 version first. It took forever to get into a game (average queue time would say 1:57 seconds or something, would actually take 4 minutes+ routinely) and the games are laggy with people disconnecting probably 20% of the time. Got it on 360 last week and the difference is night and day. I get into games much faster and the games run smoother.

Another thing regarding TrueSkill. Some PSN games have similar elements where they try to set you up with someone of equal skill but I believe the effort is wasted on a service where anyone can make 20 accounts. On Live if you want to make a new account, your subscription is wasted on one account and you have to pay up for another account. It keeps people from making new accounts which makes TrueSkill more accurate. On PSN I know plenty of people who make new accounts for games just to destroy some noobs.

I hope Sony vastly improves PSN for their next console and would have no problem paying a subscription to help them maintain it, providing it's worth paying for.

Is there a way to quote on this forum without huge quote trees? Annoying as ****.

What are you even trying to say at this point? You clearly misunderstood my first post, left out the part about PSN when you quoted me, etc. Then tried to enlighten me on the basics of PSN and Xbox Live that are all exactly the same.

I then corrected you by further explaining my point in that the difference is MS providing all the matchmaking and trueskill servers and all the framework to developers to use Xbox Live for multiplayer.

In the above post you seem incredibly confused on just exactly what powers Xbox Live as well as the varying types of servers involved. You are stuck on just P2P/Dedicated.

P2P or Dedicated is only multiplayer at it's very root form. I already explained what additional servers and services are involved with Matchmaking, Trueskill, etc that Microsoft provides to developers where as Sony does not for any PSN developers. Let's also not forget that Sony charges developers for the bandwidth their games/downloads use while Microsoft does not.

dsgrue.. I think it's time you give it up. Nightsurge pretty much explained the benefits of 'paying' for gold.
your thread was created focusing on why you think xbox live gold is outdated, plenty of people have tried to explain to you why it's not, with the most coherent and unbiased reasoning coming from Nightsurge... which you are still, albeit ineffectively, trying to argue against. so obviously, the only one here that's 'clearly devoid of rational discussion' is you; evident by your sophomoric attempt to insult him because you had no solid, fact driven reply.
here try this..
do you have cable t.v.?
do you pay for it?
do you have access to everything you cable t.v. provider offers or have they, as you put it, locked out certain areas....
you know what I'm getting at and there's plenty of other examples that would demonstrate the same thing.
so stop being a hypocrite and arguing just for arguments sake...
sorta makes you look foolish.

Thank you for corroborating my claims.

As to the above, not really :( It is annoying. You can always delete stuff out of the quote though!

This is what I've been trying to get at.

Why is there no differentiation between these such servers for features, and the actual servers that are running the multiplayer games?

If people want to pay for the *match-making service* (Trueskill/whathaveyou) and the additional features, that's fine. That's a good reason.

My argument is why isn't this *service* separate from the multiplayer bare bones P2P/Dedicated type match-making? This is what I disagree with, not the features of the service itself. (So many people are confused by this, maybe I have been poor at explaining what I'm asking?)

Now thats the right way to copy my sig! IP sales! Because If you stuck to KZ vs Halo in 2012....youd have to include Halo 4 lol.

This is more like it! But alas, the Gears vs Uncharted comparisons dont get the people talking anymore, maybe in 2007-2009 but it died off considerably since then.

Glad to see I still take up space inside your head rent free.

EDIT: As of this post, Gears 3 still has more lifetime sales lol.