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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Half-Life 2 is the game of the DECADE!

Mazty said:
Scoobes said:
Mazty said:

Mass Effect has a huge backstory and a vast, diverse amount of characters whilst also not having a black-and-white morality. HL2 is short and cliche. 

HL2's story is still piss small and clich regardless of how it is told. There are bad alien invaders. You are going to lead the resistance to stop them. Nope, this is HL2, not Resistance. I don't see Resistance praised for it's story....

Yes I know RF:G was released afterwards but that's beside the point. The point is the physics in HL2 was just a bit of polish and glitz - it didn't really do anything for the gameplay as a whole. The vehicles in Halo handled brillaintly. The vehicles in HL2 handled like dodgems. Either way HL2's physics is no better then praising a game for having good graphics. It's nice, but not necessary and doesn't make up for gameplay. 

What has HL2 influenced??? Almost all the exsiting FPS' of this generation have much more in common with CoD or Halo. How many games nowadays have multiple weapons and life packs? None. Almost all have iron sights and some sort of life regen, as well as quick access grenades and melee. None of that exists in HL2. Halo was nothing like HL2....In any conceivable way. 

If you praise a game for it's good story, then you either have a very charitable idea of what constitudes a good story, or are reading into something that just isn't there. I can't see how "short and cliche" can be considered good as they generally regarded as negative aspects of a story. 

We're going round in circles now and you're now asking questions that I've already answered. You're obviously ignoring what I've written.

I've already explained how the physics was implemented into the gameplay. I've already explained some of the rather substantial backstory; not all the aliens are bad (the ant lions are simply wildlife, the vortigants are refugees that become allies etc.) and there are as many species as Mass Effect has (that's also ignoring the fact that ME series are RPG where story is even more important). I've already explained how HL2 has influenced video games (including CoD from 4 onwards) and even given specific examples of devs explaining how they're taking influence from HL2. I've even explained some of the more obvious details of the story that you completely missed. Makes me wonder if you actually played the game.

Please go back and read my previous posts instead of willfully ignoring them. If you're just going to ask stuff I've already answered then there's no point in answering.

@ bolded: So two things Valve decided to not include in the game mean it's not been influential? That just means they decided not to copy others (and for PC, having multiple weapons is better; makes use of multiple shortcuts). Quick access to grenades, iron sights and quick melee were all introduced before Halo and CoD btw. Both games took them from mildly successful titles and incorporated them into their game. Only regen health was new out of the stuff you listed. 

I played HL2 from start to end. I saw the notes saying "seven hour war" etc and still the story is piss thin. I'm not going to write here how Halo has the best storyline evar when, in the grand schemes of gaming, it's merely adequate. I feel that is exactly what HL2 fans are doing - giving undue praise to the HL2 story. Adequate/good for an FPS? Sure. Good for a game? Nope. 


Okay, let's go back to the beginning as no HL2 advocate has ever given me a direct answer to the below:
What precisely makes HL2 a good story when we consider it is quite thin and cliche? Surely those features make it pretty poor on the grand scheme of game storylines?

Making the grav-gun essential for a few missions is hardly ground-breaking in terms of gameplay. Technologically, sure, but since when did we hold games in high esteem for just tech reasons?

Two things? 
1) Weapon limit from unlimited down to two.
2) Melee
3) Regen health
4) Quick access grenade.
5) Iron sights

That's five things. Five MAJOR features that drastically alter gameplay and has been in almost every FPS since Halo. What games had those features? Even TS didn't if I remember things correctly. Quake, doom, CS....Which FPS' you thinking of?

Games that used these features before:

1) Rise of the Triad (1994) had a weapon limit (not two though; 3 bullet weapons (pistols & MP40, and 1 extra magic or missile weapon). Rainbow 6 had a 2 weapon limit (1998).

2) Duke Nukem 3D (1996) had a quick shortcut for Duke's boot. I'm sure their are others but this is the first that came to mind.

3) Like I said, this one is an innovation introduced in Halo.

4) I believe quick grenades were in Team Fortress Classic (1999) and Soldier of Fortune (2000).

5) Delta Force and Hidden and Dangerous (1998 and 1999 respectively) had iron sights.

As for your question, the reason people don't answer you directly is because we disagree with you. The story is neither thin or cliched, especially when considering the comparative quality (or lack of) video game storylines. The characters follow established tropes, but that doesn't automatically make them cliched. Alyx who you say is a play on nerd fantasy is one of the few female characters in video games that actually portrays natural emotions, wears normal clothes and isn't just put in for eye candy. She doesn't even flirt with Gordon, just treats him as a friend and ally, but apparently, that constitutes nerd fantasy.

I've already tried to explain to you why the story isn't thin. Yes, aliens attack Earth, but all the events are being directed by someone in the background. It isn't just a simple and generic alien invasion as in most sci-fi games (even Mass Effect simply constitutes preventing an alien invasion). Everything that occurs in the events of HL1-2 are all being influenced and setup by the Gman. The resistance/revolution is only a small part of a larger whole. Episodes 1 & 2 expand on this and show the Vortigants helping Gordon and Alyx to escape. The Gmans control of Gordon starts to wane. There is nearly as much depth/detail in the world and story as Mass Effect, you just choose to disregard it. It's arguably less generic in the grand scheme of things. You even choose to disregard the Gman who gives those who like the story a sense of intrigue and mystery.

Really, most video game storylines are so ridiculously cliched, generic and bland I don't see why you think Half-Life 2 is so bad.



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kain_kusanagi said:
For the last 10 years I've been playing the Halo series over and over and have only played through Half-Life 2 once. It's a great game, but I haven't yet felt the need to replay it like I have the Halo games. I even prefer the Portal series to Half-Life.

Ditto. HL2 was a great experience, but playing it again seems like a burden. I think HL2 is just an answer that pisses off the least amount of people.

Halo has strong campaigns and multiplayer. Halo is a total package, HL2 is not.



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Scoobes said:
Mazty said:

I played HL2 from start to end. I saw the notes saying "seven hour war" etc and still the story is piss thin. I'm not going to write here how Halo has the best storyline evar when, in the grand schemes of gaming, it's merely adequate. I feel that is exactly what HL2 fans are doing - giving undue praise to the HL2 story. Adequate/good for an FPS? Sure. Good for a game? Nope. 


Okay, let's go back to the beginning as no HL2 advocate has ever given me a direct answer to the below:
What precisely makes HL2 a good story when we consider it is quite thin and cliche? Surely those features make it pretty poor on the grand scheme of game storylines?

Making the grav-gun essential for a few missions is hardly ground-breaking in terms of gameplay. Technologically, sure, but since when did we hold games in high esteem for just tech reasons?

Two things? 
1) Weapon limit from unlimited down to two.
2) Melee
3) Regen health
4) Quick access grenade.
5) Iron sights

That's five things. Five MAJOR features that drastically alter gameplay and has been in almost every FPS since Halo. What games had those features? Even TS didn't if I remember things correctly. Quake, doom, CS....Which FPS' you thinking of?

Games that used these features before:

1) Rise of the Triad (1994) had a weapon limit (not two though; 3 bullet weapons (pistols & MP40, and 1 extra magic or missile weapon). Rainbow 6 had a 2 weapon limit (1998).

2) Duke Nukem 3D (1996) had a quick shortcut for Duke's boot. I'm sure their are others but this is the first that came to mind.

3) Like I said, this one is an innovation introduced in Halo.

4) I believe quick grenades were in Team Fortress Classic (1999) and Soldier of Fortune (2000).

5) Delta Force and Hidden and Dangerous (1998 and 1999 respectively) had iron sights.

As for your question, the reason people don't answer you directly is because we disagree with you. The story is neither thin or cliched, especially when considering the comparative quality (or lack of) video game storylines. The characters follow established tropes, but that doesn't automatically make them cliched. Alyx who you say is a play on nerd fantasy is one of the few female characters in video games that actually portrays natural emotions, wears normal clothes and isn't just put in for eye candy. She doesn't even flirt with Gordon, just treats him as a friend and ally, but apparently, that constitutes nerd fantasy.

I've already tried to explain to you why the story isn't thin. Yes, aliens attack Earth, but all the events are being directed by someone in the background. It isn't just a simple and generic alien invasion as in most sci-fi games (even Mass Effect simply constitutes preventing an alien invasion). Everything that occurs in the events of HL1-2 are all being influenced and setup by the Gman. The resistance/revolution is only a small part of a larger whole. Episodes 1 & 2 expand on this and show the Vortigants helping Gordon and Alyx to escape. The Gmans control of Gordon starts to wane. There is nearly as much depth/detail in the world and story as Mass Effect, you just choose to disregard it. It's arguably less generic in the grand scheme of things. You even choose to disregard the Gman who gives those who like the story a sense of intrigue and mystery.

Really, most video game storylines are so ridiculously cliched, generic and bland I don't see why you think Half-Life 2 is so bad.

However in Raindbow Six the emphasis was on realism hence the limit. Halo was finding a half-way between realism and infinitely deep poclets. 
How is the story not thin?  Compared to most RPG's the story is incredibly thin and it is cliched by your own admission some posts back about the characters. You lead a resistance against an alien force that has taken over the world - there is no twist, it is as black and white as that. That is a cliche. 

How is falling for a rambo scientist who hasn't said a word "natural" in any way? The only word that pops to my mind is "absurd". 

Someone in the background who isn't explained whatsoever....Why not have it all as "just a dream"?  ME has the history of an entire galaxy and numerous races as well as wars, and you think that is the same as some dude in a suit doing some stuff (no one knows) and a bunch of aliens spilling through a portal? RIiiiiiiiiight. The problem is you want to see HL2 as a great story regardless of what is actually there. To compare it to ME which has pages upon pages on story to one which can be summed up in a few measly paragraphs is just illogical. 

Don't you think it's contradictory how you argue that HL2 has a great storyline and then seem to confess as the end that all game storylines suck? Saying "oh all video game storylines suck" means then that you shouldn't be praising ANY game for it's story. Plus it also shows you haven't played games like Mass Effect (ignoring 3). 



Mazty said:
Scoobes said:

Games that used these features before:

1) Rise of the Triad (1994) had a weapon limit (not two though; 3 bullet weapons (pistols & MP40, and 1 extra magic or missile weapon). Rainbow 6 had a 2 weapon limit (1998).

2) Duke Nukem 3D (1996) had a quick shortcut for Duke's boot. I'm sure their are others but this is the first that came to mind.

3) Like I said, this one is an innovation introduced in Halo.

4) I believe quick grenades were in Team Fortress Classic (1999) and Soldier of Fortune (2000).

5) Delta Force and Hidden and Dangerous (1998 and 1999 respectively) had iron sights.

As for your question, the reason people don't answer you directly is because we disagree with you. The story is neither thin or cliched, especially when considering the comparative quality (or lack of) video game storylines. The characters follow established tropes, but that doesn't automatically make them cliched. Alyx who you say is a play on nerd fantasy is one of the few female characters in video games that actually portrays natural emotions, wears normal clothes and isn't just put in for eye candy. She doesn't even flirt with Gordon, just treats him as a friend and ally, but apparently, that constitutes nerd fantasy.

I've already tried to explain to you why the story isn't thin. Yes, aliens attack Earth, but all the events are being directed by someone in the background. It isn't just a simple and generic alien invasion as in most sci-fi games (even Mass Effect simply constitutes preventing an alien invasion). Everything that occurs in the events of HL1-2 are all being influenced and setup by the Gman. The resistance/revolution is only a small part of a larger whole. Episodes 1 & 2 expand on this and show the Vortigants helping Gordon and Alyx to escape. The Gmans control of Gordon starts to wane. There is nearly as much depth/detail in the world and story as Mass Effect, you just choose to disregard it. It's arguably less generic in the grand scheme of things. You even choose to disregard the Gman who gives those who like the story a sense of intrigue and mystery.

Really, most video game storylines are so ridiculously cliched, generic and bland I don't see why you think Half-Life 2 is so bad.

However in Raindbow Six the emphasis was on realism hence the limit. Halo was finding a half-way between realism and infinitely deep poclets. 
How is the story not thin?  Compared to most RPG's the story is incredibly thin and it is cliched by your own admission some posts back about the characters. You lead a resistance against an alien force that has taken over the world - there is no twist, it is as black and white as that. That is a cliche. 

How is falling for a rambo scientist who hasn't said a word "natural" in any way? The only word that pops to my mind is "absurd". 

Someone in the background who isn't explained whatsoever....Why not have it all as "just a dream"?  ME has the history of an entire galaxy and numerous races as well as wars, and you think that is the same as some dude in a suit doing some stuff (no one knows) and a bunch of aliens spilling through a portal? RIiiiiiiiiight. The problem is you want to see HL2 as a great story regardless of what is actually there. To compare it to ME which has pages upon pages on story to one which can be summed up in a few measly paragraphs is just illogical. 

Don't you think it's contradictory how you argue that HL2 has a great storyline and then seem to confess as the end that all game storylines suck? Saying "oh all video game storylines suck" means then that you shouldn't be praising ANY game for it's story. Plus it also shows you haven't played games like Mass Effect (ignoring 3). 

When I said they suck, it's that they suck in the same way you think Half-Life 2's storyline sucks. I can take nearly any game with a half-decent story and using the same logic you use with Half-Life 2, find major fault (with possible exception of Deus Ex and Planescape Torment). The vast majority of storylines in video games follow the same basic structure, use the same tropes and plot points that are typical of the fantasy and sci-fi genres.

I can reduce the plots to each of the 3 ME games, that have pages and pages of information, into some pretty basic and generic plot sturctures:

ME1: The racist Saren goes rogue, Shephard wants revenge (he can save the galaxy as a bonus, yay!)... what's this alien entity that controls him? Kill Saren... Reapers are coming.

ME2: Shepard dies, gets revived, teams up with his saviours to kill the collectors. Kills Collectors. Reapers are coming.

ME3: Reapers come. Shepard gives brings everyone together (happy days!). Reapers lose (kinda)

This is exactly what you've done with Half-Life 2. You took the bits of the story that were in front of you and came up with what you term is a thin and cliched story. Nevermind the extra layers of depth that others have noted, the intrigue and mystery that has large groups pining for Half-Life 3, the detailed dystopia that has its own history or the subtle nuances of the main characters that makes them stand out beyond their video game tropes.

I'm just going to end up repeating myself on the silent protagonist thing; the only reason you seem to suggest that Alyx is a cliched and unrealistic character is because Gordon is silent, but having Gordon talk would ruin the game as he's simply an avatar of yourself. You don't like it, personally I think you're missing out on a layer of immersion that's just not possible with voice acted main characters in the FPS genre. And whilst it's implied she's falling for him, it doesn't really even go into the flirting stage. For the most part it feels like a friendship born of surviving crappy situations and her being told stories of Black Mesa by her father.

And whilst it's not an RPG, considering the genre it does a pretty damn good job in terms of storytelling. The fact that I've managed to write posts and posts on Half-Life 2's story really does suggest it's not as thin as you make out (and I could do the same for Mass Effect btw, I've played each through at least 5 times). The main difference is the story in ME series is told directly. You ask people stuff, you have a codex/Journal and the story presented in a relatively traditional way. Half-Life 2's storyline/backstory are told indirectly through the world and in many ways are hidden in plain sight.

@ Rainbow 6, whilst that's true, I'd still count it. The FPS genre has for the most part evolved from pure twitch shooters into realistic, semi-realistic and outright action games. There's a lot of crossover between the design philosphies. After Rainbow 6, Bungie probably saw that having two guns would work better on consoles.



Mr Puggsly said:
kain_kusanagi said:
For the last 10 years I've been playing the Halo series over and over and have only played through Half-Life 2 once. It's a great game, but I haven't yet felt the need to replay it like I have the Halo games. I even prefer the Portal series to Half-Life.

Ditto. HL2 was a great experience, but playing it again seems like a burden. I think HL2 is just an answer that pisses off the least amount of people.

Halo has strong campaigns and multiplayer. Halo is a total package, HL2 is not.

I disagree, games can be amazing by just playing it once. Sure online can give you more replay value but that's not a really important part for me at least. When a game manage to bring me back to it because of the story, music, etc, that's when I know the game is good. Ocarina of Time, Portal, Mass Effect and Final Fantasy VI (just naming some of my favorite games) gave me that feeling and none of them have multiplayer (Mass Effect 3 have it but I don't like it that much really). That's just my opinion though.



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Scoobes said:

When I said they suck, it's that they suck in the same way you think Half-Life 2's storyline sucks. I can take nearly any game with a half-decent story and using the same logic you use with Half-Life 2, find major fault (with possible exception of Deus Ex and Planescape Torment). The vast majority of storylines in video games follow the same basic structure, use the same tropes and plot points that are typical of the fantasy and sci-fi genres.

I can reduce the plots to each of the 3 ME games, that have pages and pages of information, into some pretty basic and generic plot sturctures:

ME1: The racist Saren goes rogue, Shephard wants revenge (he can save the galaxy as a bonus, yay!)... what's this alien entity that controls him? Kill Saren... Reapers are coming.

ME2: Shepard dies, gets revived, teams up with his saviours to kill the collectors. Kills Collectors. Reapers are coming.

ME3: Reapers come. Shepard gives brings everyone together (happy days!). Reapers lose (kinda)

This is exactly what you've done with Half-Life 2. You took the bits of the story that were in front of you and came up with what you term is a thin and cliched story. Nevermind the extra layers of depth that others have noted, the intrigue and mystery that has large groups pining for Half-Life 3, the detailed dystopia that has its own history or the subtle nuances of the main characters that makes them stand out beyond their video game tropes.

I'm just going to end up repeating myself on the silent protagonist thing; the only reason you seem to suggest that Alyx is a cliched and unrealistic character is because Gordon is silent, but having Gordon talk would ruin the game as he's simply an avatar of yourself. You don't like it, personally I think you're missing out on a layer of immersion that's just not possible with voice acted main characters in the FPS genre. And whilst it's implied she's falling for him, it doesn't really even go into the flirting stage. For the most part it feels like a friendship born of surviving crappy situations and her being told stories of Black Mesa by her father.

And whilst it's not an RPG, considering the genre it does a pretty damn good job in terms of storytelling. The fact that I've managed to write posts and posts on Half-Life 2's story really does suggest it's not as thin as you make out (and I could do the same for Mass Effect btw, I've played each through at least 5 times). The main difference is the story in ME series is told directly. You ask people stuff, you have a codex/Journal and the story presented in a relatively traditional way. Half-Life 2's storyline/backstory are told indirectly through the world and in many ways are hidden in plain sight.

@ Rainbow 6, whilst that's true, I'd still count it. The FPS genre has for the most part evolved from pure twitch shooters into realistic, semi-realistic and outright action games. There's a lot of crossover between the design philosphies. After Rainbow 6, Bungie probably saw that having two guns would work better on consoles.

Your analysis though is too vague and misses a lot out. Why does Saren go rogue? Why does Shepard want revenge? What are the reapers?

Saying HL2 is just a rambo scientist who wakes up from some time-sleep to lead a revolution against the big-bad aliens isn't actually missing anything vital out. You meet a bunch of people on the way and then get put back into a time fridge after killing the bad guy by some dude in a suit. That's a good summary without missing anything vital out. Hearing about a random helicopter fight or using a gun that picks up things just isn't vital to the storyline. The fact that the reapers seem to be some sentient, dormant cleaning system for the universe who have control over the main travelling system around the galaxy is somewhat vital.

I'm not watering it down - there simply isn't a lot there whatsoever. Knowing that the earth fell in 7 hours is irrelevant. It could have been 5 minutes or 7 weeks, but either way the earth still fell. It's the equivalent of finding out Gordan won a ping-pong championship - it really doesn't matter as it doesn't alter the perception of the situation and therefore future actions are not altered in light of this new knowledge.

Having people talk at you isn't realistic, period, unless you are a soldier. I know preciesely why it was done, and it's retarded because of what I just said. Being immersive by being unrealistic is bull; at least have the people acknowledge your never-ending silence, or give a speech wheel or something. I felt much more myself as Shepard then as Gordon. Falling for someone who doesn't say a word is fucking rediculous. Not eye candy? Then why have that implied romance? Again, just nerd fantasy bull.

HL2 has very little story to tell. This is something you are just ignoring and saying I'm wrong without showing how. Please show me how "deep" the HL2 storyline is if it is so rich. You haven't written posts on it's story, just posts claiming it has a story and nothing more. 

I think the 2 gun thing is more to do with game balance then anything else, as well as the limited ammo they introduced into the non-realistic FPS genre. Having unlimited guns but limited ammo would defeat the point as you could just swap gun everytime you run dry. 



osed125 said:
Mr Puggsly said:
kain_kusanagi said:
For the last 10 years I've been playing the Halo series over and over and have only played through Half-Life 2 once. It's a great game, but I haven't yet felt the need to replay it like I have the Halo games. I even prefer the Portal series to Half-Life.

Ditto. HL2 was a great experience, but playing it again seems like a burden. I think HL2 is just an answer that pisses off the least amount of people.

Halo has strong campaigns and multiplayer. Halo is a total package, HL2 is not.

I disagree, games can be amazing by just playing it once. Sure online can give you more replay value but that's not a really important part for me at least. When a game manage to bring me back to it because of the story, music, etc, that's when I know the game is good. Ocarina of Time, Portal, Mass Effect and Final Fantasy VI (just naming some of my favorite games) gave me that feeling and none of them have multiplayer (Mass Effect 3 have it but I don't like it that much really). That's just my opinion though.

You disagree with something I didn't say.

kain and I were talking about the campaign. We feel the Halo camapaigns are more enjoyable to replay than HL2.

I threw in multiplayer to point out Halo is a total package.



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Mazty; Mass Effect 1 and 2 have fairly cliched stories (when people say that ME3's story is "bad" I can only imagine the horror). The story element is by far the most overrated in that series, in my opinion. Team that up with the insane dilution of ME2's gameplay and RPG elements and you have yourself a semi-deep action game with a cliched story (boooo, ancient race awakens to wreak havoc, there is hardly a science fiction plot out there without this very direction in it).

Bioware used to tell grand stories, now they're sticking to the safe path; dumbing down gameplay, lots of sex to keep the nerds hungry and black & white "moral" systems for "depth" and "intrigue". In short; Bioware have lost their shit and games like Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age 2 show it perfectly.



Mazty said:

1. Your analysis though is too vague and misses a lot out. Why does Saren go rogue? Why does Shepard want revenge? What are the reapers?

Saying HL2 is just a rambo scientist who wakes up from some time-sleep to lead a revolution against the big-bad aliens isn't actually missing anything vital out. You meet a bunch of people on the way and then get put back into a time fridge after killing the bad guy by some dude in a suit. That's a good summary without missing anything vital out. Hearing about a random helicopter fight or using a gun that picks up things just isn't vital to the storyline. The fact that the reapers seem to be some sentient, dormant cleaning system for the universe who have control over the main travelling system around the galaxy is somewhat vital.

I'm not watering it down - there simply isn't a lot there whatsoever. Knowing that the earth fell in 7 hours is irrelevant. It could have been 5 minutes or 7 weeks, but either way the earth still fell. It's the equivalent of finding out Gordan won a ping-pong championship - it really doesn't matter as it doesn't alter the perception of the situation and therefore future actions are not altered in light of this new knowledge.

2. Having people talk at you isn't realistic, period, unless you are a soldier. I know preciesely why it was done, and it's retarded because of what I just said. Being immersive by being unrealistic is bull; at least have the people acknowledge your never-ending silence, or give a speech wheel or something. I felt much more myself as Shepard then as Gordon. Falling for someone who doesn't say a word is fucking rediculous. Not eye candy? Then why have that implied romance? Again, just nerd fantasy bull.

HL2 has very little story to tell. This is something you are just ignoring and saying I'm wrong without showing how. Please show me how "deep" the HL2 storyline is if it is so rich. You haven't written posts on it's story, just posts claiming it has a story and nothing more. 

I think the 2 gun thing is more to do with game balance then anything else, as well as the limited ammo they introduced into the non-realistic FPS genre. Having unlimited guns but limited ammo would defeat the point as you could just swap gun everytime you run dry. 

1. That's exactly the same as what you've done. Whose the "bad guy"? Out of all the posts in this thread he hasn't even been mentioned. Why was the war only 7 hours (yes, it is actually important to the "bad guy" character, how he got into his position and his motivations for doing so)? Is the "bad guy" actually dead? Why did the Vortigants decide to ally with the humans? Why did Judith betray the rebels? Your brief is even inaccurate considering the defeat of the "bad guy" isn't even the main goal, he just so happens to be in the way. The primary objective is to destabilise the Combine forces on Earth which they acheive by destroying the Citadel.

Using your logic on HL2 with ME 1 & 2, all the stuff about the Reapers, Saren and Shephard are all irelevant. It's just the generic, tried and tested aliens attack storyline throughout each game.

2. I've covered this before in at least two previous posts now. You don't like it, a lot of others love it. A couple of times people do mention Gordon's lack of speech (the main one that comes to mind is early in a meeting with Alyx she says "You don't say much, do you?"). A speech wheel would ruin the flow of the game. The whole point is to not be reminded you're playing the game and that all of the experiences that Gordon has, the player has. You don't normally see a speech wheel when in conversation do you? It's not nerd fantasy bull, you just don't like it. If you want nerd fantasy bull then you can look back to Mass Effect and Final Fantasy for that.

@ bolded. The stuff I've posted has already shown how you've missed some of the more basic elements of the story and disregarded others to fit your viewpoint. There's too much for me to cover in a post so I'll just post these links with their multiple articles:

Characters (including some from Portal as the universes overlap):

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Characters

I suggest you read this one about the "bad guy": http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Wallace_Breen

Info about the G-man: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/The_G-Man

HL2 main story:

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_2_storyline

Original HL + Episode 1 & 2 story:

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_storyline

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_2:_Episode_One_storyline

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_2:_Episode_Two_storyline

One guys attempt to bring it all together into a timeline:

http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/index.htm

There's a lot of info there.



Scoobes said:
Mazty said:

1. Your analysis though is too vague and misses a lot out. Why does Saren go rogue? Why does Shepard want revenge? What are the reapers?

Saying HL2 is just a rambo scientist who wakes up from some time-sleep to lead a revolution against the big-bad aliens isn't actually missing anything vital out. You meet a bunch of people on the way and then get put back into a time fridge after killing the bad guy by some dude in a suit. That's a good summary without missing anything vital out. Hearing about a random helicopter fight or using a gun that picks up things just isn't vital to the storyline. The fact that the reapers seem to be some sentient, dormant cleaning system for the universe who have control over the main travelling system around the galaxy is somewhat vital.

I'm not watering it down - there simply isn't a lot there whatsoever. Knowing that the earth fell in 7 hours is irrelevant. It could have been 5 minutes or 7 weeks, but either way the earth still fell. It's the equivalent of finding out Gordan won a ping-pong championship - it really doesn't matter as it doesn't alter the perception of the situation and therefore future actions are not altered in light of this new knowledge.

2. Having people talk at you isn't realistic, period, unless you are a soldier. I know preciesely why it was done, and it's retarded because of what I just said. Being immersive by being unrealistic is bull; at least have the people acknowledge your never-ending silence, or give a speech wheel or something. I felt much more myself as Shepard then as Gordon. Falling for someone who doesn't say a word is fucking rediculous. Not eye candy? Then why have that implied romance? Again, just nerd fantasy bull.

HL2 has very little story to tell. This is something you are just ignoring and saying I'm wrong without showing how. Please show me how "deep" the HL2 storyline is if it is so rich. You haven't written posts on it's story, just posts claiming it has a story and nothing more. 

I think the 2 gun thing is more to do with game balance then anything else, as well as the limited ammo they introduced into the non-realistic FPS genre. Having unlimited guns but limited ammo would defeat the point as you could just swap gun everytime you run dry. 

1. That's exactly the same as what you've done. Whose the "bad guy"? Out of all the posts in this thread he hasn't even been mentioned. Why was the war only 7 hours (yes, it is actually important to the "bad guy" character, how he got into his position and his motivations for doing so)? Is the "bad guy" actually dead? Why did the Vortigants decide to ally with the humans? Why did Judith betray the rebels? Your brief is even inaccurate considering the defeat of the "bad guy" isn't even the main goal, he just so happens to be in the way. The primary objective is to destabilise the Combine forces on Earth which they acheive by destroying the Citadel.

Using your logic on HL2 with ME 1 & 2, all the stuff about the Reapers, Saren and Shephard are all irelevant. It's just the generic, tried and tested aliens attack storyline throughout each game.

2. I've covered this before in at least two previous posts now. You don't like it, a lot of others love it. A couple of times people do mention Gordon's lack of speech (the main one that comes to mind is early in a meeting with Alyx she says "You don't say much, do you?"). A speech wheel would ruin the flow of the game. The whole point is to not be reminded you're playing the game and that all of the experiences that Gordon has, the player has. You don't normally see a speech wheel when in conversation do you? It's not nerd fantasy bull, you just don't like it. If you want nerd fantasy bull then you can look back to Mass Effect and Final Fantasy for that.

@ bolded. The stuff I've posted has already shown how you've missed some of the more basic elements of the story and disregarded others to fit your viewpoint. There's too much for me to cover in a post so I'll just post these links with their multiple articles:

Characters (including some from Portal as the universes overlap):

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Characters

I suggest you read this one about the "bad guy": http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Wallace_Breen

Info about the G-man: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/The_G-Man

HL2 main story:

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_2_storyline

Original HL + Episode 1 & 2 story:

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_storyline

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_2:_Episode_One_storyline

http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Half-Life_2:_Episode_Two_storyline

One guys attempt to bring it all together into a timeline:

http://members.shaw.ca/halflifestory/index.htm

There's a lot of info there.

The bad guys are the alien invaders, y'know, the combine? Not much room to expand on it other then that. Who cares why the war was 7 hours? It's irrelevant to the story. Who cares why the Vortigants are helping the humans? It could be out of charity & good will or a love of KFC - again it's completely irrelevant, not to mention only a sentence to explain it all so not really much there anyway, just as with the 7 hr war...

The stuff to do with the Reapers and Saren is hardly irrelevant given the choices you have to make and consider. You just want to praise HL2 because it's the cool thing to do rather then objectively compare it to other games or storylines. You yourself even said most game storylines are bad so are you including HL2 with that or not? You seem to be flip flopping from a great storyline, to a great storyline compared to some other games....
Reality check. A woman will not fall for a mute who she has seen for a handful of minutes. I don't care if Kleenex, vaseline and everyone likes it, that is reality, therefore to say it is immersive is just providing fap material for those who don't know how socialising works. 

If you could include links that weren't flagged by Norton, that'd be useful. Have you read the description of HL2's story from the link you gave?  Most of it is just detailing a journey from one point to another e.g.:

Chapter 7:
"This is the seventh chapter of Half-Life 2. Freeman is informed that Eli Vance has been taken to Nova Prospekt and sets out on a journey alongHighway 17 to rescue him. The player encounters Combine Soldiers for the first time as well as a new type of Xen alien, the Antlions. Colonel Odessa Cubbage is also met in this level, giving Gordon the RPG."

Chapter 11:
"This is the eleventh chapter of Half-Life 2. In it, Gordon Freeman teams up with Barney and together they lead a battle at the Overwatch Nexus, finally fighting at the foot of the Citadel. This section involves heavy urban combat, aided by resistance members, against Striders, Gunships, and elite Combine Soldiers."

In fact only about 3 or so chapters actually contain anything worthy of being a storyline....Most are just running & gunning...Frankly it's story is no more then what Halo: CE offers.