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Forums - Sales - Global Hardware + Software Up (Ending Dec. 1) After Black Friday sales

MDMAlliance said:
mrstickball said:

1. Its only out-paced the DS if you are doing non-aligned launches. Go look at the same point in time in 2006 for the DS and now for the 3DS. That is critical to the observation, as the DS continued to see huge yearly gains starting in 2006. Comparatively, the 3DS is down from last year. You can justify this due to the huge price drop, but that should show you how weak the 3DS is - it took a huge price drop and its at ~24m units through November of its 2nd holiday.

2. They're losers this generation because they aren't going to achieve strong results for their owners. If the 3DS and WiiU see their unit sales drop by 50% life to date in comparison to their predecessors, isn't that a huge loss? Only in some crazy world would such a huge cut not be considered a loss. But that has been the core of my argument: the 3DS, Vita and WiiU are going to see less than 50% of the units sold of their predecessors. Regardless if that is PS2>PS3, Wii>WiiU, DS>3DS, or PSP>Vita, its bad news.

3. The reason I mentioned the 150% increase in unit sales is because that's what it'd take to keep up its sales pace with the DS next year. If it doesn't, its going to continue to have a notably slower sales pace vs. the DS. That is not good, and tantamount to my argument about the 3DS.

"Losing and gaining marketshare is normal" - sure, but by how much? If there's a catastrophic loss, its going to hurt a company's profit margins, which will hurt them in the long run. Look at Sega. They had reducing market share from the Genesis through Dreamcast, and it cost them dearly.

My argument about different is that the DS was hugely disruptive in 2004/5. No handheld had anything close to what the DS offered. Capacitive touch screens were barely available for mobile phones, yet the DS had them at a very affordable price. That was hugely beneficial to its success. Comparatively, the 3D nature of the 3DS has done very little in regards to perception of the device - making it little different than its far more prolific competitor, the iPhone or Android systems.

The PS3 is in fact a loser. Its lost Sony billions of dollars. If a system fails to turn a profit for a company, its a loser, is it not?

I think you're only trying to make it a loser as much as you can, because you keep twisting your own words and definitions.  You don't know if the 3DS will sell less than half as much as the DS.  

Also, we haven't quite finished up the year yet, so it wont be down as much as you're claiming it will be.  The DS' best years were NOT its first two years, but somewhere in the middle.  This applies to most consoles, and sales for the 3DS may not have been particularly strong for the reason that North America didn't sell as many as expected (due to a lack of software).  This, however, seems to be different considering what we already know for the line-up for 2013.  

Where did I twist my definition of what a loser was or is?

The 3DS will have a lot less market share and market to cater to, as I believe it will sell about 50% of the hardware, life to date. I've been saying this well prior to the 3DS even coming out, as I believed mobiles will take away a lot of users that would traditionally buy a handheld console. And given the market, this has been the case as many publishers are making a further transition to multi-platform development, and will eventually release more exclusives to mobile, depriving the 3DS of major 3rd party hardware, which it needs to help it to strong sales, as the 3DS has nothing close to a killer app yet (and given the future lineup is unlikely to have, as all titles you've mentioned are almost all sequels to IPs already on the DS/3DS).



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mrstickball said:

Where did I twist my definition of what a loser was or is?

The 3DS will have a lot less market share and market to cater to, as I believe it will sell about 50% of the hardware, life to date. I've been saying this well prior to the 3DS even coming out, as I believed mobiles will take away a lot of users that would traditionally buy a handheld console. And given the market, this has been the case as many publishers are making a further transition to multi-platform development, and will eventually release more exclusives to mobile, depriving the 3DS of major 3rd party hardware, which it needs to help it to strong sales, as the 3DS has nothing close to a killer app yet (and given the future lineup is unlikely to have, as all titles you've mentioned are almost all sequels to IPs already on the DS/3DS).


New IP's are almost never killer apps.  Not only that, but just because it's a "sequel" (not really) doesn't mean it wont make a lot of people buy it.  A lot of people in Japan bought a 3DS for Animal Crossing, and it seems like it's what you're calling a "sequel" to the DS version.  Fire Emblem isn't quite a sequel either, and there were many people who bought the game for that.  Monster Hunter isn't even out yet outside of Japan on DS/3DS.  I don't know about you, but I think depending on what kind of game it is, a sequel can be a killer app.  Also, what are you even defining a killer app as?  Super Mario 3D Land sold plenty of systems, and there are already a good few million-sellers on the 3DS.  
Also, if you really think the mobile market will REALLY deprive the 3DS, then why can't you say the same thing about PCs for  ANY console that is released next gen?  Because PCs are in the EXACT same position, to  be honest, as the "mobiles."

 

edit: Also, the way you're twisting it is that when I mentioned the PS3, you changed your definition of loser from "not doing as well as its predecessor" to "losing money."  



guys 3ds is doing well even though last year sold more i believe that 3ds will start climbing up higher next year as long as Nintendo brings up future ips that will sell hardware!!!
AC new leaf pushed hardware in Japan and should do a little in NOA anf Europe!!! Other Titles like LM dark moon and Fire emblem as well!!! plus other games not even announce yet!!! and SSB4 will drive this up even though most like it wont come out intill 2014



3DS sold 13,250,062 units last year

It has currently sold 10,375,951 units this year



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MDMAlliance said:
mrstickball said:

Where did I twist my definition of what a loser was or is?

The 3DS will have a lot less market share and market to cater to, as I believe it will sell about 50% of the hardware, life to date. I've been saying this well prior to the 3DS even coming out, as I believed mobiles will take away a lot of users that would traditionally buy a handheld console. And given the market, this has been the case as many publishers are making a further transition to multi-platform development, and will eventually release more exclusives to mobile, depriving the 3DS of major 3rd party hardware, which it needs to help it to strong sales, as the 3DS has nothing close to a killer app yet (and given the future lineup is unlikely to have, as all titles you've mentioned are almost all sequels to IPs already on the DS/3DS).


New IP's are almost never killer apps.  Not only that, but just because it's a "sequel" (not really) doesn't mean it wont make a lot of people buy it.  A lot of people in Japan bought a 3DS for Animal Crossing, and it seems like it's what you're calling a "sequel" to the DS version.  Fire Emblem isn't quite a sequel either, and there were many people who bought the game for that.  Monster Hunter isn't even out yet outside of Japan on DS/3DS.  I don't know about you, but I think depending on what kind of game it is, a sequel can be a killer app.  Also, what are you even defining a killer app as?  Super Mario 3D Land sold plenty of systems, and there are already a good few million-sellers on the 3DS.  
Also, if you really think the mobile market will REALLY deprive the 3DS, then why can't you say the same thing about PCs for  ANY console that is released next gen?  Because PCs are in the EXACT same position, to  be honest, as the "mobiles."

 

edit: Also, the way you're twisting it is that when I mentioned the PS3, you changed your definition of loser from "not doing as well as its predecessor" to "losing money."  


1. Not the case with the DS. Look at Nintendogs/Cats and Brain Training.

2. Certainly, a number of major sequels will move hardware - but will they actually bring new users into the fold, or ensure retention by old users? In the N64/GameCube days, Nintendo banked on a lot of their typical IPs to keep users interested in the system. It didn't work, because they lost a lot of 3rd party support as the years rolled on. That should be a major concern for the 3DS.

3. PCs and consoles are pretty different in terms of the medium they cater to. Mobiles and handhelds are far too similar - at least now they are. Prior to smartphones, you couldn't say that. But if you look at a Playstation Vita - what is significantly different from it than a iPhone or Android? Very little.

4. Losing money and having huge market loss from the predicessor are invariably tied, which is why I use them interchangably. R&D on a new system costs hundreds of millions, if not a billion dollars. If you can't recoup those costs through making a profit on the system or royalties, your business is going to be in a very precarious situation. Therefore, you should be seen as a loser during the cycle.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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Hmm, Far Cry 3 didn't do too well after the great reviews and fair amount of media attention, PS3 version is about equal to Far Cry 2's opening week on the 360, and the 360 version is about equal Far Cry 2's opening week on the PS3.



Pokemonbrawlvg said:
3DS sold 13,250,062 units last year

It has currently sold 10,375,951 units this year

Damn... losing momentum already?? They better step up their game in 2013! Although, Nintendo does have a killer line up early next year... I think 3DS will start selling truly well in the West during February-March next year. I predict it'll sell 15m next year total ;)



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Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Well after this week numbers I can finally accept it, PS All Stars flopped. Well at least I'm happy the game was made.





Dem Wii U sales.