Selective reading isn't helping your case. If you wish to play online, you must pay. Thank you for failing to address any of my points and instead use straw man to dissuade from that, it only furthers my notion.

The fact that there's a discussion going on about an online service for a specific console and you're telling us that pointing out that someone admittedly doesn't own that console or use that service are straw man arguments just speaks volumes about who is truly the delusional one.

If we don't want to pay for Live there are other consoles. So we "must" do nothing. Honestly not seeing what is confusing you here, it's really simple stuff.

Clearly you've missed point. It truly is quite simple. Oh well.

Whatever you need to tell yourself to make you feel as if you won this argument about a service you don't use on a console you don't own ;)

Not that a requirment of owning the system in question is true, but it really seems to be your only footing. Sure must be comforting to hide behind the practically non-existent person who doesn't like XBL yet subscribes to it. Not that you would care to listen to them anyway. Perhaps you should realize that resorting to such shallow defenses reduces your arguement and alientates the conversation. While there are points you have argued over the course of this whole thing it is sad to see you regress to this.

If you don't consider the opinions fo those who actively choose not to partake in XBL then you will never understand why this is an issue. You have done plenty to derail this thread into senseless bickering instead of providing actual input.

Give up. Even when their arguments grow thin arguing the pros and cons of live they keep saying the same thing over and over again. It's a cycle I did not want to continue. They don't care to even remotely understand the issue from the other side of the fence. Paying for Xbox Live is something Microsoft decided to do to put the payments on the back of the consumer instead of making the third parties do it, period. They cannot argue that. The consumers pay for everything and deserve so much more than what Xbox Live gives for an annual fee, when the service has long since profited years ago. With all the money Microsoft makes, they STILL cannot pay for anything themselves and have fooled people into believe they are paying for some sort of superior service, when they never created a service, but rather a roadblock/toll to people enjoying services like Netflix/Hulu and the games they bought with their hard earned money. The funniest part is Xbox Live much like Sonys online are pretty much a second rate PC experience funneled for a closed audience and Microsoft decided to put a price on that. I dare them to try and make the PC gamers pay for Live on the PC again. They cannot, and they know exactly why.

I agree that if people on the 360 don't care about paying than it's not an issue for them. But I also share the discomfort that it may lead to people with Sony or Nintendo systems having to pay too. It's not a ton of money, and I would pay. But I don't use enough of the features for it to feel worth paying for.

I do not think you know what extortion means. I choose to pay because I enjoy what they offer. I also choose to pay for Taco Bell because I like what they offer. What Sony offers free simply isn't worth my time. What the dumpster offers free, I'd rather not eat.

I won't even argue which service is better. All you need to know is the games I really enjoy can only be played on Live.

Party Chat: hm. Every communication company charges money for communicating. Phones, internet,... is that really a weird thing? Yeah you have whatsapp, right? But you still pay for the connection of your phone (I won't put down all other negative points of that stupid app here).

Yo Dawg, I Heard You Like To Pay: This is, after years, the first point that is not just lame "I hate M$" wrapped in words. Good point. I don't use any TV services on consoles so that's why it never bothered me but I see what you mean. But after all, it's $2 a month if you get gold on ebay. It's like paying a monthly fee for video rentals. I don't know if that's common in many countries but I know shops where you pay a small fee (like $2), even if you don't rent any game/video. But if you do, it's an extra fee, of course.

Microsoft, You're Setting A Bad Example: it's not 100% bad because you get real good things for your $2. Sure, you COULD have it for free but no company has those services all for free. Also, the servers are simply better than those of the others (consoles; not PC stuff, steam etc.). DLC is crap, yes. It's bullshit that developers (or publishers!? they are the ones to blame) are planning DLC from the start, putting it on the disc and then you have to pay $10 for a 2KB update that unlocks it. But is that really Microsoft's fault? Did they start it? Are they the only ones supporting it? Even if they were, the gamers could have stood against it to make the companies realize they can't fuck with customers.

If you're going to cry about the arguments being had in this thread, wouldn't it make more sense to whine to the guy who doesn't use Live coming in here insulting subscribers based on his own feelings about Live? Oh wait, you're another guy who was in the thread earlier spreading BS about Live that was wrong. Things you'd have known were wrong if you actually used the service.

Like your post says, there have been points I have argued for XBL in this thread be it features, performance, crappy quality of the competition, etc etc. I have also said many times in the thread people can disagree that the service is better or worth paying for and that's fine, nothing wrong with those opinions. The only people I have said should own the 360 and use Live before they come in here posting the things they do are the guy who was in here making incorrect statements about Live in a factual manner (you) and the guy in here insulting subscribers (him). It doesn't matter what is said to a guy like that, we're just delusional idiots who don't know any better. Bickering from me isn't an issue when the bickering begins as soon as guys like you two hit submit :) Hope that helps.