If you're going to cry about the arguments being had in this thread, wouldn't it make more sense to whine to the guy who doesn't use Live coming in here insulting subscribers based on his own feelings about Live? Oh wait, you're another guy who was in the thread earlier spreading BS about Live that was wrong. Things you'd have known were wrong if you actually used the service.

Like your post says, there have been points I have argued for XBL in this thread be it features, performance, crappy quality of the competition, etc etc. I have also said many times in the thread people can disagree that the service is better or worth paying for and that's fine, nothing wrong with those opinions. The only people I have said should own the 360 and use Live before they come in here posting the things they do are the guy who was in here making incorrect statements about Live in a factual manner (you) and the guy in here insulting subscribers (him). It doesn't matter what is said to a guy like that, we're just delusional idiots who don't know any better. Bickering from me isn't an issue when the bickering begins as soon as guys like you two hit submit :) Hope that helps.

I do not think you know what extortion means. I choose to pay because I enjoy what they offer. I also choose to pay for Taco Bell because I like what they offer. What Sony offers free simply isn't worth my time. What the dumpster offers free, I'd rather not eat.

I won't even argue which service is better. All you need to know is the games I really enjoy can only be played on Live.

If you're going to cry about the arguments being had in this thread, wouldn't it make more sense to whine to the guy who doesn't use Live coming in here insulting subscribers based on his own feelings about Live? Oh wait, you're another guy who was in the thread earlier spreading BS about Live that was wrong. Things you'd have known were wrong if you actually used the service.

Like your post says, there have been points I have argued for XBL in this thread be it features, performance, crappy quality of the competition, etc etc. I have also said many times in the thread people can disagree that the service is better or worth paying for and that's fine, nothing wrong with those opinions. The only people I have said should own the 360 and use Live before they come in here posting the things they do are the guy who was in here making incorrect statements about Live in a factual manner (you) and the guy in here insulting subscribers (him). It doesn't matter what is said to a guy like that, we're just delusional idiots who don't know any better. Bickering from me isn't an issue when the bickering begins as soon as guys like you two hit submit :) Hope that helps.

You don't really quite read what I post, do you? You can't expect all information gathering to be perfect. Providing that information and disecting it is the benefit of this discussion, but calling anything I've said BS or implicating them as lies is self glorification. Several times I've placed you at the burden of proof and you've come shorthanded, opting to reduce the conversation to petty squable. You interject points to disregard character rather than to argue a case. I've attempted to have this thread really discuss the implications of PSN's rise in quality and XBL's potential reaction but instead it reverts back time and time again to "if you're not with us you're against us" attempt to stifle conversation.

Do you know how hard it is to find someone who willingly subscribes to XBL, uses it regularly, dislikes the service, and will appear in this thread to discuss it? If someone came in just like that and said the same things I am saying would they all of the sudden be right? Or would you find another reason to disregard him, perhaps through disbelief?

I've divulged my XBL usage to you. 4 years of in house access, several titles under my belt, retail and XBL arcade. After all of that exposure I chose not to go with XBL. Maybe you can't understand someone who is different than you and you'd rather believe this thread's only purpose is to have some kind of pissing match.

What is it with you and J_Allard. I even cited the definition of extortion for him and he shut up about it because it's entirely true. So I'll repeat it for you:

Extortion: the exaction of a grossly excessive charge for goods or services.

Your analogy is completely false by the way. (Taco Bell)

You pay for Live because it's the only way you can play your games online. Stop using this "what they have to offer" nonsense to attempt to dissaude people to this simple point of fact. The games you enjoy can only be played on Live. Awesome, good. That's a reason, but it doesn't address the point of being extorted in order to play such games on Live.

I am not allowing feelings into my arguments. I have been very matter-of-fact. You are the one who seems upset by my usage of logic to show you that Live is extortionist. My intention isn't to insult, but to show you what MS has done, which is effectively forcing you to pay for Live in order to utilize multiplayer.

The game companies include multiplayer, you buy the game, then MS says "hey that's cool, but you can't use this multiplayer portion unless you pay us a fee first". That's the basic point I've made here.

LOL if you Google search your extortion definition it actually links to a definition for overcharging which you copied verbatim and are pasting in here as something else. It's not extortion. I hope I have cleared that up for you and you'll no longer be confused as to what extortion is. You're welcome.

No one seems upset in this thread except a couple guys who don't own/use XBL getting called out for their BS. Also, regarding people buying 360 games and then MS telling them they have to pay, what do you think they expect? Do you think millions of people bought Halo 4 and then went home and were shocked to see that they had to pay to access the online play? Isn't it common knowledge that 360 is pay to play? In one of your first posts in this thread, didn't you say you don't own a 360 as a direct result of MS charging for online play? So then where is the extortion? You can call it fleecing or overcharging, and that's your opinion and that's fine, but don't copy the definition of overcharging and then come in here and try to twist it into something else.

Really only read the first sentence. If you had any experience with the matter at hand you woudn't need any "information gathering". No point in reading or replying to the rest. Hope that helps.

It's funny because the definition you originally tried to pass off as extortion (which of course was just an entirely different word but you tried to twist it for your own agenda) is wildly different than what you're posting now. Your new definition of extortion is also entirely subjective but I'm sure you'll still toss it around in a matter of fact manner. At least you finally google'd the right definition this time, kudos.

Regarding the only part of your post that is relevant. Then why are you even in this thread still spouting BS about extortion and delusions? If you can concede that many people enjoy Live because of superior features and performance and everything else that is "general consensus" then the next logical step for you should be to concede that it's not extortion for everyone. It might seem like extortion for you, but what do you matter? You don't even own a 360. So you have a stance where regardless of quality or competition, charging any fee is extortion. Again, we're the delusional ones? lol.