Exactly. What possesses these sad individuals to look down upon and preach to others when they don't even own the console or use the service? They are funny though.

This may fall on deaf ears, but I will try and explain why this is extortion.

You buy an electric car. The car company decides that you have to pay them so much a month to charge it in addition to the electricity you already pay for. Is this fair?

@J-Allard

The Dunning-Kruger effect probably went over your head. While yes, you seem to fit the bill dsgrue3 misunderstood what you were saying, which was right that there is a difference between paying for the game servers and paying to access Netflix. As for being a person who doesn't like Live, that isn't because I haven't used it. It is because I have used it that I actively don't have it. Which is something for Microsoft to be concerned over if that sentiment gathers strength.

@ disgrue3

You missed what J-Allard was saying about Netflix and game servers being different. Anyway, I agree with your sentiment, I don't agree with Microsoft imposing dedicated servers onto developers, publishers, and gamers. 360 owners have no choice but to pay into the system Microsoft created in order to access full game features, even if they only want to play one multiplayer game or very little multiplayer. Those who only want access to the features XBL restricts to subscribers also have to fit the bill. Microsoft has artificially created a system they can extract profits out of at the expense of these people.

It's not extortion because people know the service requires a fee. They choose to buy a console with an online network that is pay to play. Is Blizzard extorting WoW owners? Was Sony exploiting DCUO owners before it became free to play? Is it extortion for Sony to put up a free KZ3 MP game that you have to pay to progress in? Answer is no to all of the above because consumers know going in. Maybe you just don't know what extortion is?

That analogy is flawed because you can still play every game you buy on 360 offline. If you buy an electric car and don't charge it then it doesn't work.

What is it about these threads that makes guys who admit to never owning a 360 and never having extensive play time on Live  coming in here trying to tell other people how to spend their money? Thanks for the hilarious analogies though guys. I think Clark or whoever wins with his Microdonalds novel though. Not going to bother responding to this thread any more.

Simply because someone knows about a fee prior doesn't mean it isn't extortion. Maybe you don't know what extortion is. Here, I'll show you:

extortion: the exaction of a grossly excessive charge for goods or services.

That being said, I do believe WoW is extortion. You pay for the game itself and then a monthly fee. KZ3 free then charge to progress is completely different. 

The analogy isn't perfect, but it was simple and easy to grasp the concept of the issue. 

I'm not telling you how to spend your money, I'm just voicing my opinion. 

Edit: I did understand what you meant by Netflix not being a Live service, I just found the point to be moot despite the validity.

Technically not true since I have a sister that does that... Not sure how many people pay for xbl just for netflix, probably not that many, but it definitely isnt no one...

I think Party chat is essential, I'm surprised PS3 doesn't have it, but paying $60 a year for that? It's useless if you're not continuously subscribed to XBL.

My issue is how inconsistant Microsoft is, not just with XBL, but with the 360 in general. If I uplocad saves to cloud, and then revert to Silver Status, I can't access my saves. Literally, I have to pay to continue my games if I use cloud. Also just yesterday, after the update, my 360 almost never booted (kept freezing after it logged my profile one), and I realized if my 360 broke, I basically lost all my saves, since the new 360 uses a different hard drive.

I also hate this shit reliability, I'm on my 4th X-box (all repaired under warrenty), but it was a brand new HDMI model, and it's less then 3 years old. My DS is 7 years old, has a huge dent in it, and runs fine, what's wrong with you MS?

Next gen, I won't get a 720 until the gen is almost over and they start selling casual consoles for $150 or so. It makes no sense buying a 720 early, when it's just going to break midway through the generation, and when you're going to hold off playing online because XBL is so expensive.

You said, "Apps? Really? You act like Sony and Nintendo dont have the ones that matter."
I responded, "The 360 has the ones that matter and more that matter to people who want those apps."

"Halo is a selling point for the console and Sony has the same multiplats that can be played without paying for online."

I've said many times before if you just wanna play games or use apps free elsewhere than its makes no sense to pay for Live. But since the PS3 doesn't have the games I enjoy... I pay for Live.

"You're arguing that Halo makes the Xbox 360 the more valuable console, not exactly the most valuable online service."

God damn right that's my arugment. Halo does make the 360 a valuable console and its a big reason people subscribe to Gold. You're telling me not to focus on games when that is the biggest reason people pay for Gold. This is a ridiculous argument.

COD is the main reason people pay for gold, which is why Activision wanted a piece of the profits. Halo is Microsofts main exclusive. Don't put the cart before the horse. 

http://www.lazygamer.net/xbox-360/did-you-know-activision-is-getting-a-cut-of-your-xbox-live-gold-membership/

Activision gets $5 off the top every month per gamer person from Xbox Live. This is the reason Microsoft raised the price of Xbox Live. These American corporations are taking advantage of the gamers. If you dont like COD, it doesn't matter because you're paying Activision as well as Microsoft now to use your online.

COD is also the most used game on PSN, but you dont see Activision trying to get a cut from Sony. Want to know why? Sony isn't exploiting the gamers.

That is incorrect. They get a portion of the 5 dollars per month. 5 dollars is the total cost of liver per month, and activision gets a portion of it, but it doesn't say how big or what percentage that portion is.