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Forums - Microsoft - The REAL Problem With Xbox Live (OPINION)

riderz13371 said:


Yes you say it is your opinion and then you say "gamers perspective".  You have no argument when people state they are happy with XBL.  You need to honestly drop it because everybody has different opinions and all you are doing is making yourself look bad.


Yea I said my opinion from a gamers perspective because in other threads where people post reasons as to why Xbox Live is failing, they seem to keep bringing up the fact that it has millions of users. In reality this mainly benefits the shareholders and CEO's of the company. It's my opinion from a gamers perspective. I would be more happy if xbox live was a good service but failing in terms of subscribers rather than a bad service with a high number of subscribers. Also yea I do have an argument when people state they are happy with it, because i'm not happy with it. Again, opinion. 


Then leave "gamers perspective" out of it.  Simple.  And it is a great service for both gamers and business to many many people.  All these threads are just getting annoying and we didnt really need another because every single one is a console war. Maybe you just like console wars?  That must be it.




       

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JayWood2010 said:
riderz13371 said:


Yes you say it is your opinion and then you say "gamers perspective".  You have no argument when people state they are happy with XBL.  You need to honestly drop it because everybody has different opinions and all you are doing is making yourself look bad.


Yea I said my opinion from a gamers perspective because in other threads where people post reasons as to why Xbox Live is failing, they seem to keep bringing up the fact that it has millions of users. In reality this mainly benefits the shareholders and CEO's of the company. It's my opinion from a gamers perspective. I would be more happy if xbox live was a good service but failing in terms of subscribers rather than a bad service with a high number of subscribers. Also yea I do have an argument when people state they are happy with it, because i'm not happy with it. Again, opinion. 


Then leave "gamers perspective" out of it.  Simple.  And it is a great service for both gamers and business to many many people.  All these threads are just getting annoying and we didnt really need another because every single one is a console war. Maybe you just like console wars?  That must be it.

90% of the threads in these forums lead to console wars. Not because of the OP but because the people commenting on it feel the need to bring up the other console and start compare/contrast which leads to the inevitable console war.



90% of the threads in these forums lead to console wars. Not because of the OP but because the people commenting on it feel the need to bring up the other console and start compare/contrast which leads to the inevitable console war.


You being one of them. There is plenty of threads that give actual information to people all the time.  This thread should be locked just like they lock the Gran Turismo vs Forza threads.  

And in this case the OP is the cause of all of what you see in here.




       

XBL Gold as a paid service is no longer sustainable

Charging for something that is offered for no additional charge on the following equivalent online gaming network services

  • Steam - Supports everything XBL does and more
  • PSN - Supports everything XBL does; PS3 does not support cross-game party chat, but PS-Vita does (as in PSN does)
  • Nintendo Network - Supports everything PSN does minus any party chat for now. Additionally has MiiVerse.
Sony also has a paid subscription service, but that gives people an instant game library. Easily the best value in gaming.
So this all puts pressure on XBL which to this day just has Halo and handful of others as exclusive software and likes to charge for XBL. Especially with goal of having full family use their Xbox systems and have their own accounts/profiles... thats just that much more a bad value if you don't actually play a ton of games online.
I caught on after paying 2 years of subscription to Xbox Live Gold Family ($100 per year) and others will as well... they will stop choosing the X360 as their online console of choice with PSN and Nintendo Network and Steam all being free and equivalent.


riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
 

 How a company makes you pay so that you can communicate with your friends just seems down right disgusting to me.


I stopped reading here.

If everyone thought like you then I wouldn't be surprised if companies somehow started charging us for talking to our friends face to face. How you find paying to talk to your friends normal is odd to me. You pay for the xbox, then you pay for a headset thinking that you can use party chat. But then you have to pay every month for it.


Eveyone does think like me!!! You pay for goods and services!!! Hell, I don't even kow you and you pay to use your internet to communicate wit me right now!! Do you pay for a phone? Mobile and landline? Foolish statement.

phones are mobile and can be carried anywhere. I don't know about you, but I haven't seen people carrying their Xbox and headset on outside talking to people. And as for your paying for internet comment, this just goes back to the way Microsoft is being greedy. So I pay for internet and then I buy a console and finaly I have to pay to use my internet connection AGAIN? No my friend, you don't think like me.

I said mobile AND LANDLINE! Do you take your, now read carefully, HOME PHONE with you everywhere? Oh, you pay for a house on a mortgage? Must take that everywhere with you too? You pay for it so you must be able to use it all the time no matter where you are? I'm glad I don't think like you.

 

People pay for netflix and other internet based subscriptions? Why rip on xbl??

Because XBL forces you to pay for Gold even if all you want to do is pay for netflix. How do you find that normal?! No sane person can justify the way Microsoft does this.

You didn't reply to the first bit. 10 million or whatever people on WoW say hi. It's common now. Get with the times.

if "the times" are having to pay monthly subscriptions to access content which is free on a different product/service then I don't want to get with it.


Soon you might not have a choice. PSN+ was made probably because they realized too late that online subscription is the way to go. They're in a business are they not? To make money? If they forced pay to play on people now you'd be alienated and possibly switch console or stop all together online.

 

You still didn't reply to the first bit.

I already did. You can justify paying for something that has NO alternatives. Xbox Live has alternatives. Paying to use a phone/landine does not. You either pay to use them or you just simply can't use them because you aren't paying. Same goes for a mortgage/renting a home. You either pay for those things, or you are homeless.

With phones, you pay for whatever phone model you want (with more, or less features and tech) and then you get the subscription that fits your needs.

With XBox Live, you pay for the console, and then you pay for a subscription to Live so that you can be allowed to subscribe for the services that you need (in this case, Netflix).

Doesn't seem like the same thing at all to my eyes.



Around the Network
cusman said:

XBL Gold as a paid service is no longer sustainable

Charging for something that is offered for no additional charge on the following equivalent online gaming network services

 

  • Steam - Supports everything XBL does and more
  • PSN - Supports everything XBL does; PS3 does not support cross-game party chat, but PS-Vita does (as in PSN does)
  • Nintendo Network - Supports everything PSN does minus any party chat for now. Additionally has MiiVerse.
Sony also has a paid subscription service, but that gives people an instant game library. Easily the best value in gaming.
So this all puts pressure on XBL which to this day just has Halo and handful of others as exclusive software and likes to charge for XBL. Especially with goal of having full family use their Xbox systems and have their own accounts/profiles... thats just that much more a bad value if you don't actually play a ton of games online.
I caught on after paying 2 years of subscription to Xbox Live Gold Family ($100 per year) and others will as well... they will stop choosing the X360 as their online console of choice with PSN and Nintendo Network and Steam all being free and equivalent.

 


Very good post. Bolded is all we need. ^.^

 

....Shit just got real.



Hynad said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
riderz13371 said:
ironmanDX said:
 

 How a company makes you pay so that you can communicate with your friends just seems down right disgusting to me.


I stopped reading here.

If everyone thought like you then I wouldn't be surprised if companies somehow started charging us for talking to our friends face to face. How you find paying to talk to your friends normal is odd to me. You pay for the xbox, then you pay for a headset thinking that you can use party chat. But then you have to pay every month for it.


Eveyone does think like me!!! You pay for goods and services!!! Hell, I don't even kow you and you pay to use your internet to communicate wit me right now!! Do you pay for a phone? Mobile and landline? Foolish statement.

phones are mobile and can be carried anywhere. I don't know about you, but I haven't seen people carrying their Xbox and headset on outside talking to people. And as for your paying for internet comment, this just goes back to the way Microsoft is being greedy. So I pay for internet and then I buy a console and finaly I have to pay to use my internet connection AGAIN? No my friend, you don't think like me.

I said mobile AND LANDLINE! Do you take your, now read carefully, HOME PHONE with you everywhere? Oh, you pay for a house on a mortgage? Must take that everywhere with you too? You pay for it so you must be able to use it all the time no matter where you are? I'm glad I don't think like you.

 

People pay for netflix and other internet based subscriptions? Why rip on xbl??

Because XBL forces you to pay for Gold even if all you want to do is pay for netflix. How do you find that normal?! No sane person can justify the way Microsoft does this.

You didn't reply to the first bit. 10 million or whatever people on WoW say hi. It's common now. Get with the times.

if "the times" are having to pay monthly subscriptions to access content which is free on a different product/service then I don't want to get with it.


Soon you might not have a choice. PSN+ was made probably because they realized too late that online subscription is the way to go. They're in a business are they not? To make money? If they forced pay to play on people now you'd be alienated and possibly switch console or stop all together online.

 

You still didn't reply to the first bit.

I already did. You can justify paying for something that has NO alternatives. Xbox Live has alternatives. Paying to use a phone/landine does not. You either pay to use them or you just simply can't use them because you aren't paying. Same goes for a mortgage/renting a home. You either pay for those things, or you are homeless.

With phones, you pay for whatever phone model you want (with more, or less features and tech) and then you get the subscription that fits your needs.

With XBox Live, you pay for the console, and then you pay for a subscription that can allow you to pay yet again an other subscription for the services that you need (in this case, Netflix).

Doesn't seem like the same thing at all to my eyes.

Well i'm not the one who brought up this whole comparing phones/landlines to xbox live service thing. But yea as you said, it simply can not be compared to any other service.



Euphoria14 said:
People attacking the thread creator rather than giving valid reasons for why his views could be wrong. Not just that, but attacking people who have nothing to do with the thread.

Quite the behavior I must say. He has already admitted that he has no issue with anyone here paying. He just wishes you could get it without having to pay.

Some people need to lighten up. It's not that serious.


seriously...THIS, some people need to take a chill pill, not everyone will like or feel the way you feel about a console, no need to attack based on his beliefs, he came with a pretty unbiased article imo( or is my opinion wrong too) he didn't attck live or say how Sony or Nintedo operates their network account.

OT: I agree with the OP which is why I also stop paying for Live since 2009...well can't play anything since my 360 fell down the stairs...-_-



JayWood2010 said:

90% of the threads in these forums lead to console wars. Not because of the OP but because the people commenting on it feel the need to bring up the other console and start compare/contrast which leads to the inevitable console war.


You being one of them. There is plenty of threads that give actual information to people all the time.  This thread should be locked just like they lock the Gran Turismo vs Forza threads.  

And in this case the OP is the cause of all of what you see in here.

This thread is giving information. I'm explaining what I think is wrong with Xbox Live Gold subscription. Rather than people coming back at me with arguments as to why or why not Xbox Live gold is a good thing to subscribe to they are just trying to say why my opinion is wrong. It makes me lol.



riderz13371 said:

Alright before you all start to bash the shit out of me (which is inevitable) let me say this first. I am not trying to start a fanboy war and this is simply an OPINIONATED article so take this with a grain of salt. This is simply my opinion as to why Xbox Live fails gamers. 

We all know Xbox Live is successful due to the fact that it has a ton of followers and Microsoft is making a lot of money on it. This thread is simply stating my reasons as to why it is failing from a gamers perspective not a shareholders perspective. And here we...go

Party Chat is a Joke

Ever since the Xbox 360 released, gamers have been shoving it down the throats of PS3/Wii owners. At first I did agree that this was a very cool social feature...until I found out you had to pay to use it. I know you are still able to communicate through a headset if you're in a lobby with other players but if you want to start a party chat to communicate with friends while you all play different games, you have to pay for it. This just blows my mind. How a company makes you pay so that you can communicate with your friends just seems down right disgusting to me. Now that the Vita has come out and it offers party chat for free, it makes me even more sick. A handheld can let you use party chat but if you want to use this feature on the 360 you have to pay every month. Now I know you will all come back at me about how it's only 40$ a year or however much it is but, as my good friend Heath Ledger said, 

 

Yo Dawg, I Heard You Like To Pay

 

Another thing that really amazes me is how you have the option to use features such as Netflix on your console, but only if you are a Gold member. So basically you have to pay for Xbox Live...to pay for Netflix? *Cue the Xzibit meme*. I just don't understand why I have to pay for something just so I can have the OPTION to pay for a different service... Other consoles let you use these features but only if you pay the subscription for Netflix, so surely it can't be that hard for Microsoft to do it. But no, they just simply don't care. As long as the CEO's are filling their pockets with money they won't give a shit and will never change. I wan't to reiterate that i'm saying this from a gamer's perspective and not a Sony/Nintendo fanboy's perspective. I just feel ashamed that Microsoft gets away with these type of silly things. Shame on you Microsoft.

Microsoft, You're Setting A Bad Example

It's pretty obvious that the other console companies have seen the huge success of Xbox Live. What makes you think that sooner or later everyone will start charging monthly services to use basic features that should be available to use for free on a console. If I buy your product, I should be able to use all of it's features. Of course this doesn't include things such as Netflix which I have stated above, simply because the Companies don't own Netflix and they can't just give it away for free. These features are simply bonuses. Remember back in the day when you used to buy a game and it would be the FULL game. Now if a game doesn't have DLC, it can't be considered relevant months after release. I'm sure CoD wasn't the first game to introduce DLC but I'm going to use them as an example. Ever since companies noticed the huge success of Call of Duties DLC they all jumped onto the boat and started creating DLC so that they could sell it for an extra price after their game was released. Now I don't have a problem with DLC but when a company is already creating the DLC before the game is even released and then decides to take it out of the game just so that they can charge that extra 5$ to whoever wants to play it, this is quite annoying. It's gone so far as to now ther is DAY ONE DLC! If you had the time to put the DLC out the day the game was released then i'm 100% sure that you could have put it on the full version of the game without having to nickle and dime your consumers. Enough about DLC though because this is a totally different topic. What I'm trying to prove with this example is that Sony/Nintendo and whatever future company decides to enter the gaming industry will look at Microsofts huge success with Xbox Live and say why can they charge for features that are offered free on my console and get away with it. Eventually we will all be forced to pay for monthly subscriptions to use features that should be given to us for free when we purchase their product. 

To end this off I just want to say, again, that this is not a thread ment to take jabs at Microsoft. Sony and Nintendo also have their problems with their console and please feel free to make opinionated articles stating what Sony/Nintendo are doing wrong with their subscription programs/console. I'm simply making this article because I feel terrible that Xbox gamers have to pay for features that can be used for free on other consoles. Yes Microsoft offers these services to persuade consumers to purchase their product, but they should be free.

Please don't rage at me =(. Thanks.  

Wow, what an incredibly original argument! I'm going to respond just using the power of common sense.

First of all, stop pissing and moaning about every little thing Gold members have access too. There is an understanding that only Gold members get access to social and streaming services. Silver members basically just have access to the market place, simple as that.

360 fans don't really care about party chat. Its just amusing Sony has failed to duplicate it simply due to the limitations of the hardware.

Feeling you're entitled to free online services is ridiculous. Bear in mind providing online services is not free and more expensive than you presume. MS doesn't charge publishers for bandwidth, Sony does. MS operates all servers except for EA, Sony leaves all of that to publishers/developers. If you don't like paying for services you feel entitled to, even knowing there is a lot of overhead to run those services, than go with the free alternatives. Since there are free options there should be no need to piss and moan about what Microsoft does for their platform.

I agree with your DLC comments for the most part. However, it has nothing to do with Xbox Live.

Anybody who pays for Xbox Live simply to do things that can be done on a PS3 or even a Wii, I would suggest buying a different platform. However, the millions and millions of us that use Xbox Live for exclusive features and to play exclusive games online, we're okay with paying for Live because we're getting something no other platform offers.

I think the only thing you feel terrible about is people choose to spend their money on something they personally enjoy and you don't.



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