By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Worlds of What If: A Series of Video Game Alternate Histories

 

Is this a good idea?

Yes 44 78.57%
 
No 4 7.14%
 
Maybe 5 8.93%
 
See Answer 1 1.79%
 
Total:54

Pkay, I did some research, and discovered that the Dreamcast had a cousin: an arcade counterpart called NAOMI, first demonstrated in 1998. The actual Dreamcast was a dumbed down version of the same hardware. I'll use its system specs in lieu of actual circa 2000 Sega system data. This gives the new Dreamcast stronger RAM but weaker CPU and GPU than the GameCube, assuming the GameCube remains the same.



Love and tolerate.

Around the Network
Mr Khan said:
Marginally related, but the big "what if" i've been puzzling out, is:
What if the Star Wars films had been made "in order"? E.g. the original trilogy was episode I, II, and III, and then the new trilogy was 4, 5, and 6?

This is assuming that only the general plots stay the same for both: e.g. episode I is about finding Anakin and encountering a mysterious evil of the Sith that seems to be stirring up the corrupt but otherwise peaceful alien groups in the galaxy, and that it wouldn't be the exact same thing, due to budget and technology and Lucas having less direct creative control.


Interesting thought. I can think of a couple of historical changes, both to the movie and to our culture.

First, I doubt Anakin would have been played by a kid. Instead, he could have been played by the same adult actor throughout the trilogy. Maybe Mark Hamill could have played Anakin? If his real life career is any indicator, he knows how to play both the hero and the villain.

Second thought. The cultural impact of the movie would have been very different. Episodes 4 to 6 were ultimately optimistic, despite the crazy odds and powerful empire. Episodes 1 to 3 were a tragedy. If the movies were just as sucessful as in real life, Hollywood would have been more willing to make films that went outside of peoples' comfort zones.

Third idea: The aesthetics of the Republic. In our timeline, the original trilogy looks all medievel-space-punkish while  Episodes 1 to 3 look smooth and futuristic. Back in 1977, people were just beginning to think the future was gritty, was there was a chance that Star Wars would end up looking aesthetically more like Star Trek. Maybe this would affect other sci-fi films of the era, like Blade Runner.

Numer Quattro. Even if you had the same actors and actresses playing different parts, you'd need a new actor to play Obi-Wan Kenobi. Whoever that guy is gets a free career and a reputation for playing failed mentors.

5. What if the clone wars were radically different? Like, what if the war was regular people vs droids, creating a metaphor for humanity's struggle against the technology they replace? Or regular people vs. clones, bringing in all sorts of new ideas into the franchise.

Item the Sixth. People in this timeline's 2012 will joke about an alternate universe where the crappy episodes 4 ro 6 were made first, laughing about how confused people would be by the numbering system.



Love and tolerate.

Salnax said:
Mr Khan said:
Marginally related, but the big "what if" i've been puzzling out, is:
What if the Star Wars films had been made "in order"? E.g. the original trilogy was episode I, II, and III, and then the new trilogy was 4, 5, and 6?

This is assuming that only the general plots stay the same for both: e.g. episode I is about finding Anakin and encountering a mysterious evil of the Sith that seems to be stirring up the corrupt but otherwise peaceful alien groups in the galaxy, and that it wouldn't be the exact same thing, due to budget and technology and Lucas having less direct creative control.


Interesting thought. I can think of a couple of historical changes, both to the movie and to our culture.

First, I doubt Anakin would have been played by a kid. Instead, he could have been played by the same adult actor throughout the trilogy. Maybe Mark Hamill could have played Anakin? If his real life career is any indicator, he knows how to play both the hero and the villain.

Second thought. The cultural impact of the movie would have been very different. Episodes 4 to 6 were ultimately optimistic, despite the crazy odds and powerful empire. Episodes 1 to 3 were a tragedy. If the movies were just as sucessful as in real life, Hollywood would have been more willing to make films that went outside of peoples' comfort zones.

Third idea: The aesthetics of the Republic. In our timeline, the original trilogy looks all medievel-space-punkish while  Episodes 1 to 3 look smooth and futuristic. Back in 1977, people were just beginning to think the future was gritty, was there was a chance that Star Wars would end up looking aesthetically more like Star Trek. Maybe this would affect other sci-fi films of the era, like Blade Runner.

Numer Quattro. Even if you had the same actors and actresses playing different parts, you'd need a new actor to play Obi-Wan Kenobi. Whoever that guy is gets a free career and a reputation for playing failed mentors.

5. What if the clone wars were radically different? Like, what if the war was regular people vs droids, creating a metaphor for humanity's struggle against the technology they replace? Or regular people vs. clones, bringing in all sorts of new ideas into the franchise.

Item the Sixth. People in this timeline's 2012 will joke about an alternate universe where the crappy episodes 4 ro 6 were made first, laughing about how confused people would be by the numbering system.

My thoughts were somewhat similar, that alternate episode I would have been more or less a stock sci-fi film, just with good and evil superpowered guys running around helping the various sides, with the prophecy about Anakin and the mysterious Darth Sidious being the only sequel hooks. Episode II would be a bit grittier (like episode V in our world) to show the series potential for drama, then episode III comes along, and the fall of Anakin and the Jedi becomes the biggest upset in movie history, leaving the children as a sequel hook (forced in by the studio, maybe? Or just a sign that evil cannot endure forever).

The other question is what 4-6 would have looked like if Lucas had had complete creative control and more money. Hoth would have been traded for Geonosis, for one, being the big huge-scope battle



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Salnax said:
KungKras said:
Salnax said:
Okay, so far I've got a basic outline for generation 5 without Sony being in the console market. It's not pretty. The Saturn and N64 sell a combined 90 to 95 million units, less than our timeline's PSone all by itself.

In retrospect, Sony entering the industry was a great thing, if only because they made less crazy decisions than Sega and Nintendo generation 5 and provided resources and advertising for big games like Gran Turismo, Ridge Racer, Namco Fighters, Twisted Metal, Crash Bandicoot, Final Fantasy, and Spyro.

Anyway, I'm thinking the Xbox becomes the new PSone in terms of making a breakthrough for Western console gaming. It had the horsepower, the price, and the killer apps. Especially since it would have been the only 6th generation console capable of playing Grand Theft Auto.

Isn't the panic performance increase of the Saturn just a myth?

Don't foget that the 6th gen consoles would be radically different as well. A long Saturn lifespan would mean Dreamcast using more powerful tech.

Oh, and a lot of PC game companies wouldn't start migrating to consoles, so PC gaming would have more games in the alternate history as well.


It's one of those stories that's hard to pinpoint an origin to, so it may very well be a myth. Video game history is foggy before 1998 or so.

Don't worry, I've thought about that. The Dreamcast would come out at least a year later in my timeline. That said, that still puts it as early as 1999, and Sega stuck to 6 year cycles for a while. Maybe a 2000 release date for the Dreamcast? Hmm... if we abuse Moore's Law and simply double the Dreamcast's specs (God help me) it would still have a weaker CPU than the GameCube, but more GPU and RAM. The real question is whether the Dreamcast would use regular CDs like in real life or DVDs like the GameCube and PS2? Because depending on that answer, console gaming could have been held back for a generation.

Can you think of any specific franchsises, developers, or publishers that would stay on the PC? I can think of plenty of 21st century examples, but the PS1 seems to have mostly been dominated by Sony 1st party games, Japanese games, and the ocassional Western developer that seemed destined for consoles. Honestly, the chief games I'm kicking out of the console boat so far are Warzone 2100 and Medal of Honor.

Maybe Oddworld would have stayed on PC as well. I think the effects would be seen more in later gens, since it wasn't until then that PC was starting to get excluded more by PC devs, in the fifth gen, it started out as PC ports and PC game companies doing console projects then the migration became more severe later on. You'll have to look up what PC studios started working on console games, rather than seeing what PC series started to appear on consoles.



I LOVE ICELAND!

Microsoft and Sony copied the Wii by releasing the Kinect/Move in 2010, well what if Nintendo copied them and released a HD console around the same time? The Wii U in this timeline could possibly be slightly weaker and wouldn't have the gamepad and instead would come bundled with a Wii Remote Plus for $349 and a $399 bundle that includes Remote Plus, Pro Controller and Super Mario All-Stars. 1st party launch games would be Donkey Kong Country Returns and Wii Party, 3rd party games could include Just Dance 2, Epic Mickey, Goldeneye, Assassin's Creed:Brotherhood, Rock Band 3, Street Fighter 4, Black Ops, Darksiders, Dead Rising 2, New Vegas, Red Dead Redemption, NFS:Hot Pursuit and sports titles. It would get the majority of 3rd party PS3/360 games in 2010-13 and many of the early PS4/720 multiplats of 2014-15 but at that point it would start to show its age and its successor released in Nov 2016. Sales would be about 45-50 million by late 2013 when PS4/720 release and 70-80 million lifetime.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Around the Network
zorg1000 said:
Microsoft and Sony copied the Wii by releasing the Kinect/Move in 2010, well what if Nintendo copied them and released a HD console around the same time? If Nintendo released the Wii U in Nov of 2010 with just a Wii Motion Plus could they sold it for $349?


Seeing as the Wii U is somewhat stronger than the PS3 and 360, and how a Wiimote plus is more expensive than even a regular controller, I doubt they'd be able to price it that low.



Love and tolerate.

Salnax said:
zorg1000 said:
Microsoft and Sony copied the Wii by releasing the Kinect/Move in 2010, well what if Nintendo copied them and released a HD console around the same time? If Nintendo released the Wii U in Nov of 2010 with just a Wii Motion Plus could they sold it for $349?


Seeing as the Wii U is somewhat stronger than the PS3 and 360, and how a Wiimote plus is more expensive than even a regular controller, I doubt they'd be able to price it that low.


i updated it and went into a bit more detail



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

After looking into the future of my "No PlayStation" timeline, I have to say I'm glad I don't live in that universe. No console generation sells 100 million units of hardware until the 7th, a lot of games are either nonexistent or PC exclusive, and Sonic is treated like a relevant icon!

*Gets slapped in the face by KungKras*

Yeah, I deserved that. But without a big tech company like Sony or Microsoft backing it up, console gaming grows at a much slower pace, especially when factoring in Japan's population decline. And without a desperate Nintendo, motion controls never become a thing, preventing another avenue of growth. A lot of the games are still made, but there are a lot less people playing them.



Love and tolerate.

Okay, I have the outlines of my "No PlayStation" history planned out. I have about 3,000 words of notes plus a bunch of tables, but here's the outline:

1991 to 1994: Not much is different.
1995: Sega releases the Saturn at the end of the year for $300, $100 less and months later than in our timeline. The delayed 5th generation and lack of a PSone allows the Genesis and SNES to sell more units.
1996: The N64 is launched with Super Mario 64. Meanwhile, the Saturn receives games like Resident Evil, Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, and Tomb Raider. The Saturn continues to receive a lot of the PSone's games in our timeline, though not all of them as we shall soon see.
1997: Final Fantasy 7 is released for the N64 in a very different form from ours. Nevertheless, it is a big deal JRPG in the west, though not as much as in real life. The N64 still gets Star Fox 64 and Goldeneye this year, while the Saturn receives sequels to Tomb Raider and Crash Bandicoot.
1998: The minimum price of both systems goes down to $150 over the summer, while the fall is as big a deal as in our timeline. The Saturn receives a version of Metal Gear Solid and Spyro the Dragon while the N64 gets Ocarina of Time.
1999: Microsoft does NOT announce the existence of the Xbox. The Xbox does not exist in this timeline, due to the lack of a threat from Sony. The Dreamcast is also delayed to 2000, since the Saturn is doing well enough in its fifth full year on the market.
2000: The Dreamcast comes out, with a launch lineup not entirely unrecognizable from our timeline. It includes the first proper Sonic game in years, along with various arcade ports. This version of the Dreamcast is, like the real thing, based on the highly popular NAOMI arcade cabinet. However, the RAM is not compromised due to the lowering costs over the year. This makes arcade-to-console ports extremely simple. Meanwhile, the N64 gets Dragon Quest 7, a big deal in Japan, and a price cut to just $100.
2001: Almost at the same time as in real life, the Game Boy Advance is released. This version, however, has a longer life, thanks to the lack of a rival in the PSP and Sega's unwillingness to try the handheld market again. The GameCube is launched later that year, with Luigi's Mansion and Smash Bros Melee of course, but also with Final Fantasy X, which gives the GameCube a clear niche in the Japanese market. Meanwhile, the Dreamcast receives games like Metal Gear Solid 2 and Super Monkey Ball.
2002-2005: Both consoles gain strength, neither side claiming victory. The Dreamcast gets Virtua Fighter 4, Sonic Adventure 2, and Sonic Heroes, the GameCube gets Super Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime, Wind Waker, and Mario Kart, and the game boy gets SNES ports and the 3rd generation of Pokemon. Eventually, Nintendo sells more hardware, if only because of a wider appealing first party and decent 3rd party support. However, the Dreamcast has online play and more 3rd party exclusives, giving it a solid place in the market.
2006: This timeline's version of the Nintendo DS, the Game Boy Nitro, is released early this year. Think a somewhat weaker PSP without the media features but with the touchscreen. Essentially, what the logical successor to the Game Boy Advance would seem to be. Meanwhile, at the end of the year, both Sega and Nintendo release their 7th generation systems, the Pluto and the Revolution respectively. They are somewhat similar to our timeline's 360 and PS3, but are actually much weaker, though not as weak as our timeline's Wii. Basically, neither company is big enough to afford a $800 console at launch, so the generational jump is much more modest. Sonic 06 is meant to be a Pluto launch title, but ala Brawl, is delayed into 2007 for quality reasons, leaving the Pluto's launch lineup fairly bare. The Revolution, meanwhile, launches with a Zelda game and Viva Pinata from the declining Rare.
2007: The Pluto picks up some steam, but Nintendo gets an early start. Sonic gets onto the Pluto first, but Super Mario Galaxy is far more popular, and features stunning 720p graphics, which become the norm from 2007 onwards for major titles. Other major games this year include Assassin's Creed, which create a trend for open world games in this timeline that Grand Theft Auto 3 wasn't able to as a PC exclusive, Guitar Hero, which was only possible on full-sized DVD-based systems, and Sonic at the Olympic Games, Sega's successful answer to the Mario Sports series.
2008: The Revolution effectively defeats the Pluto this year, although only to the extent our timeline's SNES eventually beat the Genesis. Super Smash Bros Brawl, Revolution Fitness, and Mario Kart X sell millions, Nintendo finally opens an online store other than a virtual console, and all Sega has in response are MGS4, Sega SuperStar Tennis, and Valkyria Chronicles. Final Fantasy 13 is released as a multiplatform title, but 2/3 or 3/4 of copies sold are on the Revolution.
2009: This year starts off better for Sega, as it releases Sonic Unleashed and Yakuza 3, plus receiving a port of the popular Resident Evil 5. However, by the end of the year, the ball is back in Nintendo's court thanks to a new 2D Mario game. Also note the release of Batman: Arkham Asylum this year, which is seen as an alternative to the Assassin's Creed series, and Assassin's Creed 2, one of the generation's defining games.
2010-2011: N/A
2012: The successor to the Game Boy Nitro is released. The Nitro starts later than the DS, but lasts longer too thanks to the lack of competition. Also, I think it's about time Sega and Nintendo release new sytems, though Nintendo might wait till 2013.

Notes
*This gaming market is significantly smaller than real life's. Without corporate giants like Sony and Microsoft investing money in the console market, I'd say that generation-to-generation growth is minimal until the 7th generation, when Nintendo rediscovers 2D Mario and pushes fitness games.
*Part of the reason the console market is smaller is because some genres enter the market late or never. For example, Grand Theft Auto 3 never fit on GameCube or Dreamcast discs, forcing the open world genre to wait another genration. Likewise, since Halo and Call of Duty start on the PCs and only eventually, if ever migrate to the consoles, there is a limited shooter market on the consoles.
*Also note the lack of Sony and Microsoft 1st party franchises. No Gran Turismo exists in this timeline, meaning that realistic driving games are largely overshadowed by arcade and kart-styles counterparts. Without God of War and Uncharted, cinematic Action games are less prevalent. And without the PSP, the handheld market is somewhat smaller in the 7th generation, although Nintendo doesn't mind since they own the entire thing.
*Tekken and Ridge Racer were impossible on the Saturn and N64 alike. Therefore, these games remain arcade-exclusive, extending the life of the arcade for another year or two. The ease of arcade-to-Dreamcast ports also helps.
*Various games are very different. For example, Final Fantasy 7 is low on cinematics, but has far shorter load times and more consistent models. Metal Gear Solid, meanwhile, still has cinematics, but backgrounds and the like are largely 2D. And even later games like Assassin's Creed are limited by the relatively low power of the systems they're made for.

I've also calculated things like approximately how many million-sellers 5th and 6th generation systems might have, what they might be, how much software and hardware would have sold, and some basic console specs. Any thoughts?



Love and tolerate.

Is the saturn in your timeline the one we know or theyre original design before sony showed ps specs? And will u post your sales figures?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.