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Forums - Gaming - Name a "hardcore/mature" game that doesn't indulge adolescent male fantasies?

happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

When I grew up playing super mario I only needed two buttons to jump and spit fire. The skill came at how much enemies and environments hurled themselves at you and how you best avoided them. I played harder games as a child. Complex control schemes in hardcore games are demanding and really demand mastering of complex control schemes. Also, we know the audience has grown up, which is why these games have these mature themes and stories. Nintendo knows exactly who they are trying to get the attention of with Super Mario, but everyone can play the game. Mario Sunshine was probably as hardcore as its ever going to get for Mario.

To this day, I still find completing Super Mario Bros. on the NES a challenge.

Does complexity of controls really make a game hardcore, or does the difficulty level make it more hardcore (catering to advanced gamers)?

Its so funny, You couldn't get me off of the damn floor when I was younger when I was playing Mario. Super Mario 3 and World and 64 were the best Marios to me filled variety in their levels and suspense, but relatively easy at its core. I guess its that easy to play but hard to master type of thing. I got Aladdin and Contra on my SNES and then we were rockin'. I lived in fear of contra on hard until I got into my teens. I dunno, you probably look deeper into than I do, but I just jumped on everything and ran past certain things to keep time with the stop watch in Mario, because again, another part of the game is to keep time and get to the end before time runs out.

Hardcore games tend to have themes that and characters that draw to the heart of the die hard gamer, control schemes that are complex and ai that is incredibily smart and also less lives to live. Playing Gears, Halo and Uncharted on the hardest settings got me to realize this, but for instance, when you play Uncharted on the hardest difficulty when you shoot at characters they bob and weave to try and get out of your line of sight when you're firing and if they shoot you good they can kill you in two shots at times. Its amazing how smart the AI get in those games when you just crank up the difficulty. They will be in your quarters guns blazing and sometimes even in formation. 



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S.T.A.G.E. said:

Its so funny, You couldn't get me off of the damn floor when I was younger when I was playing Mario. Super Mario 3 and World and 64 were the best Marios to me filled variety in their levels and suspense, but relatively easy at its core. I guess its that easy to play but hard to master type of thing. I got Aladdin and Contra on my SNES and then we were rockin'. I lived in fear of contra on hard until I got into my teens. I dunno, you probably look deeper into than I do, but I just jumped on everything and ran past certain things to keep time with the stop watch in Mario, because again, another part of the game is to keep time and get to the end before time runs out.

Hardcore games tend to have themes that and characters that compare to the die hard gamer, control schemes that are complex and ai that is incredibily smart and also less lives to live. Playing Gears, Halo and Uncharted on the hardest settings got me to realize this, but for instance, when you play Uncharted on the hardest difficulty when you shoot at characters they bob and weave to try and get out of your line of sight when you're firing and if they shoot you good they can kill you in two shots at times. Its amazing how smart the AI get in those games when you just crank up the difficulty. They will be in your quarters guns blazing and sometimes even in formation. 

Looking it from that perspective, Mario will be considered much less complex, because the AI is poor in comparison. I think the level design is what makes mario challenging, and not the enemies. For example, New Super Mario Bros. 2 has a very hard DLC from what I saw, and it takes real skill to complete it. Though the enemies are simple, their placement and the speed required, as well as the availability of platform make it challenging to the core.

It all depends on what is our yardstick. But in the end, if challenge is the aspect we're measuring, AI is only one metric by which we can evaluate it.



happydolphin said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Its so funny, You couldn't get me off of the damn floor when I was younger when I was playing Mario. Super Mario 3 and World and 64 were the best Marios to me filled variety in their levels and suspense, but relatively easy at its core. I guess its that easy to play but hard to master type of thing. I got Aladdin and Contra on my SNES and then we were rockin'. I lived in fear of contra on hard until I got into my teens. I dunno, you probably look deeper into than I do, but I just jumped on everything and ran past certain things to keep time with the stop watch in Mario, because again, another part of the game is to keep time and get to the end before time runs out.

Hardcore games tend to have themes that and characters that compare to the die hard gamer, control schemes that are complex and ai that is incredibily smart and also less lives to live. Playing Gears, Halo and Uncharted on the hardest settings got me to realize this, but for instance, when you play Uncharted on the hardest difficulty when you shoot at characters they bob and weave to try and get out of your line of sight when you're firing and if they shoot you good they can kill you in two shots at times. Its amazing how smart the AI get in those games when you just crank up the difficulty. They will be in your quarters guns blazing and sometimes even in formation. 

Looking it from that perspective, Mario will be considered much less complex, because the AI is poor in comparison. I think the level design is what makes mario challenging, and not the enemies. For example, New Super Mario Bros. 2 has a very hard DLC from what I saw, and it takes real skill to complete it. Though the enemies are simple, their placement and the speed required, as well as the availability of platform make it challenging to the core.

It all depends on what is our yardstick. But in the end, if challenge is the aspect we're measuring, AI is only one metric by which we can evaluate it.


Dont difficulty settings do that for us?



Aren't games supposed to fulfill some sort of fantasy? Having a gleefully adolescent portion of a game is a good way to cover the bases in terms off audience (and the term "adolescent fantasy" should be broader than what it put in the OP, imo). Though there probably is such a thing as too gleefully adolescent...



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F0X said:
Aren't games supposed to fulfill some sort of fantasy? Having a gleefully adolescent portion of a game is a good way to cover the bases in terms off audience (and the term "adolescent fantasy" should be broader than what it put in the OP, imo). Though there probably is such a thing as too gleefully adolescent...

Yes, it just happens that lots of people fantasise about being murdering rapists. No wonder people like Anita Sarkeesian exist.



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Thief series.

In the hardest difficulty setting, killing humans is almost always forbidden, and even in the few cases you can do it, your character has no armour and must rely on stealth or long range bow, but in the latter case, aiming with the arrow nocked will tire your arm after a little time. Fighting at close quarters with one foe will surely result in getting damage, with more than one, almost surely death. Also, some missions even require to not only not killing humans, but avoid being seen by anybody and even forbid what is normally allowed, knocking people out. When allowed to knock up people you even must be sure to hide them, not only in dark places where other people cannot see them, but also in safe places to avoid harming them, as should they die, the mission fails. So you are really forced to avoid fights and be stealthy, and the adrenaline and thrill will always come not from fights, but concentration and care to remain unseen and fear of being spotted.



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Bioshock if that's counted as a hardcore game ? .



Research shows Video games  help make you smarter, so why am I an idiot

Try playing the extremely hardcore and mature ZombiU (Wii U)

If you are okay with taking out "hardcore" requirement which I don't even know what that means to you but for me it means brutally challenging. If you take that requirement out then there are plenty of "mature" games that don't indulge adolescent male fantasies.

Start with Heavy Rain (PS3)



Pyro as Bill said:

Fast cars, sex scenes, unnecessary/unrealistic profanity, super soldiers, lone survivor of the zombie apocalypse.

Wii Sports

OBJECTION!

Wii Sports casts every player as a professional athlete. The baseball and boxing games in particular likely indulge quite a few adolescent males' fantasies.



Has it been mentioned already? Valkyria Chronicles, my favourite game of the generation to date, and the game for which I bought the PS3.

Fast cars: Nope slow tanks

sex scenes: Nope, but genuine love and affection

unnecessary/unrealistic profanity: Nope, very clean dialogue

super soldiers: Nope, a rag tag group of weekend warriors with a head in the clouds biologist to lead them. Although Rosie does become pretty kick arse once she's leveled up a bit, and if you've played the DLC that gives her Selvaria's weapon. Oh and Alicia turning into a Valkyria, but that's at the end and it doesn't play a major role in the battles.

lone survivor of the zombie apocalypse: nope, no zombies.

One minor concession to the sex thing: there are the occasional up-skirt shots when female soldiers are lying down hiding from the enemy in long grass, you can see their underwear. But that's not a sex scene per se.



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