By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wiiu RAM 43% slower than PS360 RAM

joeorc said:
drkohler said:
joeorc said:


yes and no, the WiiU's chip is a SOC with all cpu,gpu and edram memory bandwidth all on the same die.

No. the CPU is not on the same chip carrier as the GPU/eDram (as per Nintendo image of the mainboard posted 1-2 weeks ago).


UMM yes it is ..IT IS INDEED A MCM

Notice how you originally wrote "on the same die".  Learn the difference between die, and chip carrier. On the image you reference there is the MCM pictured that contains TWO CHIP CARRIERS. One carrier contains GPU/eDram (maybe on same die, maybe not - until someone opens the carrier we won't know). The second chip carrier contains the CPU. Notice this is done to reduce costs, as the small MCM contains more layers than the main pcb (due to the many address and data bus lines). So a manufacturer can significantly reduce costs by having a low-layer-numbers (= low price) main pcb and only a small, high-layer-numbers (=high price) MCM (the same idea is done in the PS3).



Around the Network

Actually this was right about what I expected.

For the most part I took a wait and see approach and participated in the speculation here and there, but I was pretty sure it wouldn't be a graphical beast even by today's standards. This is about Wii level (or possibly above- since we don't have much to go on about future consoles), and like the Wii there's no good reason why potential Wii U games won't look more impressive than the previous generation's experiences.



3DS Friend Code: 0645 - 5827 - 5788
WayForward Kickstarter is best kickstarter: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1236620800/shantae-half-genie-hero

HappySqurriel said:
drkohler said:
HappySqurriel said:
drkohler said:
HappySqurriel said:

Edit: essentially, by caching data in edram rather than grabbing it from main memory, Nintendo could be eliminating 50% to 95% of the data transfer across the memory bus making the difference between a $4 memory module and a $400 memory module meaningless.

Dude, the eDram is a FRAME BUFFER, not a cache. The CPU probably doesn't even see it....

And no, when three processors (CPU, GPU and DSP) fight for ram over a single 64bit bus, then there is bus contention issus, all the time


and you have documentation for this I assume?

Yes. Every computer ever built by any engineer. Of course Nintendo SOFTWARE engineers use caching techniques wherever possible in whatever way possible. In case you did not notice, this is a thread about HARDWARE, not software.

So the Gamecube and Wii didn't use 1MB of their 3MB on GPU memory as a texture cache?

In modern times hardware developers produce firmware, drivers and hardware abstraction layers over their hardware to be used by software developers to ensure that the hardware is used as efficiently as possible and to drastically simplify the process of producing hardware. OpenGL and Direct3D are the most well known hardware abstrating 3D APIs in the world, Nintendo (for obvious reasons) will develop a hardware abstraction layer compatible with OpenGL and will expose optimizations and unique hardware features using OpenGL extensions.

The fact that you don't understand this demonstrates that you don't know enough to have an informed opinion on the Wii U's hardware architecture

to add further

its not the speed of the ram, that is the issue, its the bandwidth connection between the components. for instance the MCM of the WiiU has the GPU, the CPU and the Memory's bandwidth all on the same packaged PCB. off chip connection between each component is what the communication speed between each system component is the point that is being made, like say for instance you have off board Edram of certain memory speed but the connection bandwidth  to and from that chip is slower than its native speed its going to only be able to communicate with another system component only as fast as the communication bandwidth memory speed of the connection memory will allow. 

its the connected wire if you will thats the problem, not the memory's base cycle speed., there is still much about the WiiU we do not know about yet and making a blank statement that this bus speed is too slow  for the system its quite a bit too early in my opinion to make such a statement in my opinion because there is still so much about the system we do not know about yet.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Kenology said:
We really shouldn't be judging the Wii U's unofficial RAM speed until after its first Christmas.

Don't be silly. That privileged is reserved for Sony.



drkohler said:
joeorc said:
drkohler said:
joeorc said:


yes and no, the WiiU's chip is a SOC with all cpu,gpu and edram memory bandwidth all on the same die.

No. the CPU is not on the same chip carrier as the GPU/eDram (as per Nintendo image of the mainboard posted 1-2 weeks ago).


UMM yes it is ..IT IS INDEED A MCM

Notice how you originally wrote "on the same die".  Learn the difference between die, and chip carrier. On the image you reference there is the MCM pictured that contains TWO CHIP CARRIERS. One carrier contains GPU/eDram (maybe on same die, maybe not - until someone opens the carrier we won't know). The second chip carrier contains the CPU. Notice this is done to reduce costs, as the small MCM contains more layers than the main pcb (due to the many address and data bus lines). So a manufacturer can significantly reduce costs by having a low-layer-numbers (= low price) main pcb and only a small, high-layer-numbers (=high price) MCM (the same idea is done in the PS3).

. MCM's are SOC's
omg, i know the difference, what do you call a SOC? just because both cores are not direct to each other on say a cpu/gpu set mem package does not mean they are not on the same chip carrier were splitting hairs here in the definition. SOC's are on the same die. which is if you went through the entire break down under the chip spreader it is both chips are on the same die. Now if you want to talk about the connection between both chips that is where were on the same page as far as the speed, but like others have pointed out we have yet to see the lay out of the  connection.s between the chips or its channel of on die connection.



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Around the Network

This explains why they only allow 1GB of memory for games. They probably can't really benefit from anything more as they simply cannot access the memory fast enough for it to matter.



Tease.

720p without MSAA games confirmed for Wii.

 With that slow RAM we will see little game in 1080p or MSAA.

eDRAM alone can't help in this bottleneck.



Turkish said:

PCPer did a teardown. Great stuff... they actually read off the RAM chip (SMRT!). There's only 4 chips.

Samsung K4W4G1646B -> DDR3 4Gbit, 1.5V, 800/933/1066 speed bins -> I'm pretty sure that means "DDR3-1600/1866/2133" data rate.

256Mx16 would imply 16-bit I/O per DRAM... So... 17GB/s at most for main memory bandwidth. They didn't mention the rest of the numbers on the DRAM, but they ought to have high res photos later.

Wii U: 17 GB/s, separate eDRAM pool
 360: 22.4 GB/s, eDRAM for framebuffer
 PS3: 25.6 GB/s main memory BW, 22.4 GB/s graphics memory BW, no eDRAMSamsung K4W4G1646B -> DDR3 4Gbit, 1.5V, 800/933/1066 speed bins -> I'm pretty sure that means "DDR3-1600/1866/2133" data rate.

 

 

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1680114&postcount=3188

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500362

Samsung K4W4G1646B -> DDR3 4Gbit, 1.5V, 800/933/1066 speed bins -> I'm pretty sure that means "DDR3-1600/1866/2133" data rate."

I'm pretty sure you need to do your research.

20 dollars get the same amount of ram at a faster speed and by faster I mean way faster.

 if I have to open my wii-myself to disprove this I will.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

ninetailschris said:

Samsung K4W4G1646B -> DDR3 4Gbit, 1.5V, 800/933/1066 speed bins -> I'm pretty sure that means "DDR3-1600/1866/2133" data rate."

I'm pretty sure you need to do your research.

20 dollars get the same amount of ram at a faster speed and by faster I mean way faster.

 if I have to open my wii-myself to disprove this I will.

The PCPer opened the Wii U if you want to check.

http://nl.twitch.tv/pcper/b/341042388

PS. That's not fake.



Attoyou said:
Heavenly_King said:
So in Dragon Ball terms, how the PS3/360/WiiU Stand?

Wii U =

 

360 = 

PS3 = 

So if the WiiU takes parts of the PS3 and 360 it can be perfect? XD lol.    I did some reaserach in power level and I found this:

Cell without eating people: 9,000,000  (WiiU)

Android 17: 8,000,000 (PS3)

Android 18: 7,500,000 (360)

 

Seems right lol, I wonder how the PS4 and 720 will be against cell XD

EDIT: PS4 // 720

GOGETA and VEGITTO

both rape cell XD