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Forums - General Discussion - Atheist VS Satanism VS Christianity v2(offensive content removed)

 

What are you?

Atheist/Agnostic 64 50.00%
 
Christian 46 35.94%
 
Satanist 11 8.59%
 
After this thread not sure 7 5.47%
 
Total:128

_



I LOVE ICELAND!

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ninetailschris said:

 

 


I'm sorry but could you clean that post up a bit before I read it? It's far too messy to be woth the effort atm.



I LOVE ICELAND!

TheEvilBanana said:
Max King of the Wild said:
TheEvilBanana said:

Grammar is useless, as long as people can understand what you say, silly useless rules do not matter. My post does not prove your point. Your post proves my point, that you are closed minded and only care about useless things such as age, grammar, and level of education. People can still go through years of college and be stupider then a 12 year old. They might know more about certain subjects, but they are less intelligent.

You are a very immature person. "This post have proven my point. Thank you for the timely discussions" This line shows much arrogance. You are a very arrogant and biased person, please leave my thread or actually try to have a logical discussions.

Please explain to my why age matters when the amount of knowledge you can learn is not limited by age. A 10 year old can know everything aa 50 year old knows and more, at least at an intellectual level, but not on an experience level. The difference between knowledge and wisdom, is that knowledge are things you know from studying, and wisdom is things you learn through experience. If you want to argue that people who are older have more wisdom then younger people, I would agree with you. But knowledge is not based upon age. Please prove me wrong with logical arguments instead of saying "Oh haha you post proves me right LOL you made a small grammar mistake so I AM RIGHT LOL I AM SO SMART". That's how you come off as to me.

I said I'VE MET CHILDREN SMARTER THEN YOU. Not that all children are smarter then you, can't you read? You have no idea the intelligence level of the children I have met. I've met kids so smart they would make ANY adult look dumb, not you specifically. But the fact that you put so little into your argument, just assume your right, don't really counter my points but instead point out a small grammar error on my part shows you truly do have a lack of intelligence.

By the way I'm in college for music and art. Eat that.


Level of education does not matter, the stuff they teach you in school besides math, english, and science, are invalid.

I meant to say BASIC math, english and science. Eventually english rules become useless. It does not matter if you use the right then/than, they're/their/there, spell things wrong, as long as people understand you. Math is pretty useless beyond addition, multiplication, division, subtraction, and fractions and percents. I could of stopped learning english and math in 6th grade and been just fine.

To deny the acquistion of knowledge only proves you have much to learn in life, or feel its best to lower the bar and/or settle for mediocrity.

So these are qualities of Satan worshippers.......ya some faith you got here buddy.



kaneada said:
richardhutnik said:
kaneada said:
TheEvilBanana said:

Warning: This is the truth and as I believe it, do not participate in this thread if you're easily offended or closed minded. The exchange of contradictory ideas is what keeps this thing called the search for knowledge going. This thread is for people who are open minded, logical, and don't deny facts. If you are christian, you can try to post in this thread, but if you are too offended and are just going to insult and blasheme my God and creator Satan, just please go away now.




Oh boy here we go...I say this with no disrespect, but you don't have the slightest clue what your talking about in relation to LeVayan Satanism. First of all, Anton wrote a book, one that embraced the carnal nature of human beings. To some of us, that book made perfect sense, because it resonated with something that we knew to be true all along, that human beings should not live in abstinence of their own desires and as a matter of fact are at their best when they are allowed to indudge their desires.

The problem with mindless engaging in one's own desires is that these desires end up resulting in bad consequences.  Lack of self-control causes harm, and to just give in is a problem.   Yes, it sounds nice, but then you face the hangover, the bill, or other consequences you need to clean up, or you leave for someone else to do.  Humans are carnal, but this carnality is finite.  

Mindless engaging? If the point of Satanism is to achieve self awareness and personal excellence then nothing you do is mindless...There is a difference between induldgence and compulsion. What you're describing is compulsive behavior.

Self-improvement doesn't come in, in indulging every impulse and desire one has.  Self-improvement comes through denial of some things, delaying gratification, and then working towards something larger.  It means making base desires subservient to things greater.  And the excellence needs to be recognized by others, not in a way that is people pleasing, and mere image, but has character.  

I will say that you have touched on something here though.  It can be hard to tell when engaging in indulgences isn't a compulsion.   Strong desires compel people to do things.  Now, to end up intellectually managing it, and engaging in the proper time, can violate this.  But, I was operating under the presumption that LaVey Satanism was opposed to Christian principles, so thus it would speak of engaging in indulgences now, and whenever, rather than practicing restraint, and aspiring for greater, beyond one's self.  If it doesn't do this, then I fail to see the actual difference, unless LeVay's Satanism is actually opposed to a faux image of real Christianity.



DiscussionTime said:
TheEvilBanana said:
Mr Khan said:
I don't know what other people have said, but the point of Satanism is not actual worship of Satanism. Satanism exists, like other "Left Hand Path" religions, in order to mock Christianity and/or celebrate counter-cultures.


You are wrong and that point has been adressed previously.

You are mocking Christianity. Your appearance and lifestyle just screams counter-culture.


Mr Kahn, you are off base with LeVayan Satanism...The term Satan in Hebrew actually means challenger or adversary....that term is used only because the beliefs entailed challenge the status quo of thought. There is no mockery of any traditional religions, unless you consider that we disagree with SOME values in Christianity. I would go so far as to say the average Chrisitian spends more time mocking other philosphical beliefs than any Satanist does...I certainly never do.



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

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richardhutnik said:
kaneada said:
richardhutnik said:
kaneada said:
TheEvilBanana said:

Warning: This is the truth and as I believe it, do not participate in this thread if you're easily offended or closed minded. The exchange of contradictory ideas is what keeps this thing called the search for knowledge going. This thread is for people who are open minded, logical, and don't deny facts. If you are christian, you can try to post in this thread, but if you are too offended and are just going to insult and blasheme my God and creator Satan, just please go away now.




Oh boy here we go...I say this with no disrespect, but you don't have the slightest clue what your talking about in relation to LeVayan Satanism. First of all, Anton wrote a book, one that embraced the carnal nature of human beings. To some of us, that book made perfect sense, because it resonated with something that we knew to be true all along, that human beings should not live in abstinence of their own desires and as a matter of fact are at their best when they are allowed to indudge their desires.

The problem with mindless engaging in one's own desires is that these desires end up resulting in bad consequences.  Lack of self-control causes harm, and to just give in is a problem.   Yes, it sounds nice, but then you face the hangover, the bill, or other consequences you need to clean up, or you leave for someone else to do.  Humans are carnal, but this carnality is finite.  

Mindless engaging? If the point of Satanism is to achieve self awareness and personal excellence then nothing you do is mindless...There is a difference between induldgence and compulsion. What you're describing is compulsive behavior.

Self-improvement doesn't come in, in indulging every impulse and desire one has.  Self-improvement comes through denial of some things, delaying gratification, and then working towards something larger.  It means making base desires subservient to things greater.  And the excellence needs to be recognized by others, not in a way that is people pleasing, and mere image, but has character.  

I will say that you have touched on something here though.  It can be hard to tell when engaging in indulgences isn't a compulsion.   Strong desires compel people to do things.  Now, to end up intellectually managing it, and engaging in the proper time, can violate this.  But, I was operating under the presumption that LaVey Satanism was opposed to Christian principles, so thus it would speak of engaging in indulgences now, and whenever, rather than practicing restraint, and aspiring for greater, beyond one's self.  If it doesn't do this, then I fail to see the actual difference, unless LeVay's Satanism is actually opposed to a faux image of real Christianity.

I disagree with several statements you've made; however, I don't think I am qualifying what an iduldgence is and what that means in Satanism very well, so allow me to try. It is "our" belief that Christianity teaches people to deny their emotional spectrum, to deny things such as desire, anger, pleasure, many of which lead to experiences that we believe are necessary to leading a gratifying life. Chrisitianity views certain carnal behaviors as impure with an exception of certain pre-defined conditions as defined in the Bible. We believe that those things should be indudged, but be indulged responsiblity hence to avoid the extreme of compulsive behavior.

We hold the contention that personal excellence is owed to the self, that the only person it must gratify is ourselves, whether it be an artistic endeavour, career growth, card collecting, whatever suits us. While you touch on a point very accurately, that sometimes there is little line between induldgence and compulsion, that is what we as Satanists aim to clairfy for ourselves, to better be aware of who we are as people, which in our view leads to self mastery. Once again, a Satanist doesn't view their beliefs as a religion, we don't pray to or worship any God, we are at heart athiest objectivists, but we view the idea of Satan as a representation of humanity as a carnal, materialistic being, that should be celebrated.

In some respects you're right, there are many views between Satanism and Chrisitianity that are similar, not everything is diametrically opposed. While we believe in touching on what some might call negative emotions, we also celebrate the idea's of love and togetherness. We do reject the Christian relgion as a false account of history, it doesn't mean we don't share some values with the core philosophy behind it. LaVey was against the parts of Christianity that asked that people denied aspects of themselves because they are viewed as negative human traits. However, there is not such thing as a Satanist that hadn't come to those conclusions before they were aware of Satanism. LaVey touched on something in his philosophy that all of us knew through our own observations to be true. I didn't read the Satantic Bible and get some nifty new idea's, I read something that resonated with my understanding of the world long before I was aware of its existence.

That being said the principle's of Satanism will only make sense to a certain subset of people, to anyone else it will seem like scary hocus pocus from a bunch of kooks that wish to trash everything that we as people of planet Earth find sacrisanct. I'm not advocating anything here, but there is plenty of interviews and books available that you may find helps you better understand our view of the world. It's completely up to you...if you want an objective view try the material on religious tolerance http://www.religioustolerance.org/

Edit: Last thing to consider is that Satanism is not a concrete set of rules, people who are Satanic interpret the beliefs different so don't be suprised if another LeVayan Satanist has another way of viewing those princples...



-- Nothing is nicer than seeing your PS3 on an HDTV through an HDMI cable for the first time.

TheEvilBanana said:
NolSinkler said:
Dear Mr. Banana,

You claimed you have committed the unforgivable sin, I.E. blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Fortunately for you, it is said in 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

All unrighteousness. It does not say, "all unrighteousness, EXCEPT for blaspheming the Holy Spirit."

No, the unforgivable sin is a permanent and forever unrepentant rejection and denial of the Holy Spirit. The sacrifice made by God for humanity, a sacrifice made out of love for us, is more than sufficient for all of our sins.

Besides, "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation"

In danger is the key. They are in danger of eternal damnation. They shall not receive eternal damnation, though, if they obtain forgiveness for their sin. And we know from 1 John 1:9 that if we confess our sins, he will purify us from ALL unrighteousness.

Now that it is established that you have not committed the unforgivable sin, and thus, can still be forgiven, let me establish that you are indeed evil. This is a claim that you dispute.

"If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us." 1 John 1:10.

Very easy. You have sinned. If you say you have not, you say God is a liar and that the word of God is not in you. Since you seem to imply all of these things, this one verse seems to accurately describe you.

But so what? So what if you've sinned? Big deal. You've committed one sin in your life.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." (James 2:10)

Oh dear. So it seems that you've broken the entire law. Justly, then, you deserve punishment. For if you uphold the entire law, you have earned nothing, but have only fulfilled what is expected of you, and should not expect special treatment; if you break the law, you deserve punishment, for the law is made for sinners, not for the righteous. I speak as a man.

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:18)

Well, there's your way out. Believing on Jesus. You will not be condemned if you believe on Jesus. There it is. Very plain. Very simple.

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

You are speaking even now the lies of Satan. There is no truth in you. You are believing, affirming, and spreading a lie. You are destroying the beauty of God's creation. But your father is the devil. If only you could be born again, with God as your father! Then you might even do His will. Wait...

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:5-6).

Nobody will enter into the kingdom of God unless he is born again. But how are you born again?

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith." (1 John 5:4)

Indeed. So then to have faith is to be born of God. Then you will overcome the temptations of this world. If you will have faith in the Word of God, in Jesus Christ, then you will overcome the world; and if you have overcome the world, you have been born of God. Simple stuff.

You are not damned. Jesus loves you. God loves you. You have believed lies. Through faith, you can again affirm the Truth and overcome the world. You may obtain forgiveness, which is freely given to you, not because of what you've done...but because of what God has done for you.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:" (Ephesians 2:8)

God bless you. If you will open your ears to hear, then you will be changed by the power of the Word of God. If you will harden your heart, you will not.

"While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief." (Hebrews 3:15-19)

Do not fall prey to the deceitfulness of sin. Today, if you will hear his voice, harden not your heart.


Sorry, you're wrong. According to your bible there is ZERO chance of me being forgiven, if you don't believe me read the words of your christ:

Mark 3:22-30 states,

"And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beelzebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' …'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'" 


Besides, don't talk to me about how I'm evil because I've sinned. First of all I don't believe there are sins, only bad karma. And having bad karma does not make you a bad person, because people change. Besides, I have very little bad karma.

NolSinkler is right.
If all sins can be forgiven, then ALL can be forgiven. Every sin is an offence to the Holy Spirit. That`s what separates you at first, from God. But what keeps you in that separation is the lack of repentance. No repentance means no forgiveness, as in, eternal damnation.
So, even you can be forgiven if you repent.

Speaking of sins and bad karma, i`ll tell you just this. In an apparition by Jesus to Saint Faustina, she asked her how did He tolerated so many offenses and sins. His answer was that He had eternity to punish, but now was the time for mercy.
Don`t think that there isn`t punishment yet think that there is reward. Believe me, every sin or good deed will have their consequences, be they good or bad. If you side with the devil the consequences will be very bad for you.



kaneada said:

I disagree with several statements you've made; however, I don't think I am qualifying what an iduldgence is and what that means in Satanism very well, so allow me to try. It is "our" belief that Christianity teaches people to deny their emotional spectrum, to deny things such as desire, anger, pleasure, many of which lead to experiences that we believe are necessary to leading a gratifying life. Chrisitianity views certain carnal behaviors as impure with an exception of certain pre-defined conditions as defined in the Bible. We believe that those things should be indudged, but be indulged responsiblity hence to avoid the extreme of compulsive behavior.

We hold the contention that personal excellence is owed to the self, that the only person it must gratify is ourselves, whether it be an artistic endeavour, career growth, card collecting, whatever suits us. While you touch on a point very accurately, that sometimes there is little line between induldgence and compulsion, that is what we as Satanists aim to clairfy for ourselves, to better be aware of who we are as people, which in our view leads to self mastery. Once again, a Satanist doesn't view their beliefs as a religion, we don't pray to or worship any God, we are at heart athiest objectivists, but we view the idea of Satan as a representation of humanity as a carnal, materialistic being, that should be celebrated.

I would have to say that Christianity doesn't speak of denying emotional spectrum, just not having elements of it run amok, or got to an extreme.  It speaks of not dwelling in some emotions.  Lust and anger are two, as would envy and others.  Such emotions can destroy a person, and others, if lived in.  Anger ruins relationships and one's health.  Lust ends up causing one to act in the wrong time, and overextend or get tied up.  Envy destroys discontentment.  There is speaking of states to dwell in and others to move from.  There is also talk of moving out of fear to.  Any emotion you see in the Bible mentioned as avoiding, is done because of the downside.  It isn't a matter of never experiencing it, but moving from them, when one can. Every emotion laid out ends up having lots of downside, with little good.  With every one laid out as having harm, there are alternatives that work superior for people.  And not just the individual, but others the individual relates with.  The goal is redemption, not some sort of end in things for oneself.



KungKras said:
ninetailschris said:
 

 

 


I'm sorry but could you clean that post up a bit before I read it? It's far too messy to be woth the effort atm.


One word.

Ipad if you have one you would understand why this happen.



"Excuse me sir, I see you have a weapon. Why don't you put it down and let's settle this like gentlemen"  ~ max

Hail Satan yaw'll!!!