I disagree with several statements you've made; however, I don't think I am qualifying what an iduldgence is and what that means in Satanism very well, so allow me to try. It is "our" belief that Christianity teaches people to deny their emotional spectrum, to deny things such as desire, anger, pleasure, many of which lead to experiences that we believe are necessary to leading a gratifying life. Chrisitianity views certain carnal behaviors as impure with an exception of certain pre-defined conditions as defined in the Bible. We believe that those things should be indudged, but be indulged responsiblity hence to avoid the extreme of compulsive behavior.

We hold the contention that personal excellence is owed to the self, that the only person it must gratify is ourselves, whether it be an artistic endeavour, career growth, card collecting, whatever suits us. While you touch on a point very accurately, that sometimes there is little line between induldgence and compulsion, that is what we as Satanists aim to clairfy for ourselves, to better be aware of who we are as people, which in our view leads to self mastery. Once again, a Satanist doesn't view their beliefs as a religion, we don't pray to or worship any God, we are at heart athiest objectivists, but we view the idea of Satan as a representation of humanity as a carnal, materialistic being, that should be celebrated.

Warning: This is the truth and as I believe it, do not participate in this thread if you're easily offended or closed minded. The exchange of contradictory ideas is what keeps this thing called the search for knowledge going. This thread is for people who are open minded, logical, and don't deny facts. If you are christian, you can try to post in this thread, but if you are too offended and are just going to insult and blasheme my God and creator Satan, just please go away now.

I have read your responses and it seems you are easily offended too. Your whole OP blashphemes God but you want us to not degrade Satan...thats not exactly open minded either. Talking in facts about Gods is an oxymoron. Religions are faith based, not factual.

Most atheists believe in science, logic, and reason. That's something they have in common with Satanists. They believe the world came from natural circumstance within the universe, and life came to be on it's own. Satanists believe that too. Most atheists base their morals upon logic and gut feelings, not an ages old book of unverifiable validity. I respect atheists for their reason, but I look down on them for never opening themselves up to the wonderful spiritual world that exists thinly veiled behind the obvious reality.

Christians, myself included, believe in science, logic, and reason. You can believe in God, and have logic and reason govern your daily life. Faith is an entirely other matter. This is actually mainstream Christianity sentiment now. Hope this can clear up your thoughts about Christians. If the faith heavy minority bothered you, that shouldn't paint a picture for the whole religion.

Satanism is complex. There's many different kinds of Satanist, from LaVeyan atheistic Satanism to theistic Satanism. I myself am a theistic Satanism, I believe Satan/Lucifer is a real being. He speaks to me through diverse manners and tells me all the truths and lies. He gives me magickal powers that christians and their religion, which I believe to be false, never even promises or gives you. Anything I want comes to me without effort. When I pray he listens, considers what I want, and then gives me what I need, unlike the christian God who you pray to and absolutely nothing happens, and you look for the smallest things which could be considered "signs" that he answered your prayer, or atleast that's what I did when I tried being christian. How many time have you known christians, in real life or movies, to say "Give me a sign" then they take something small and insignificant as a sign when it's really just an irrelivant circumstance. When you ask Satan for a sign, you better believe you will get a sign, and you will know 100% that it is a sign from Satan directly to you. So, I've gone a bit off topic, just slightly, let's get back to Satanism, not the glory of Satan... Atheistic satanism is based upon the Satanic bible. Anton LaVey was himself actually a theistic Satanist who believed Satan to be a real being, it's quite obvious that's true if you study him. He created the Satanic bible to make Satanism mainstream. he made it atheistic so it would be accepted. He gave all the glory to Satan he could without directly expressing that Satan is a real being that will bless your life in ways you cannot imagine. LeVayan Satanism has MUCH better morals then christianity in my opinion, is relatively free of contradictions unlike the christian bible. It is a very good and respectable religion.

Getting high and hearing what you want to hear isn't anything religious. You completely don't get the point of Christian prayer. It is meant for God to listen and for you to acknowledge that he is there. But he is supposed to do nothing. If God gave us anything we wanted then that cheapens life and is an easy way out. You want good things in life then you gotta earn it. God and prayer is meant to give to the RESOLVE to follow through.

Now, let's talk about my beliefs, theistic Satanism. Theistic/Spiritual Satanism is based upon the ancient religions of mankind that predate judaism and christianity by hundreds to thousands of years. We revere and give glory to the oldest God in recorded history, the ancient Sumerian God known as Enki. En means Lord, and Ki means earth. He is Lord of the Earth. He was worshipped long before the judeo/christian lie YHWH. (Wikipedia Enki for proof) We as theistic Satanists believe Judaism/Christianity to be a lie spread by the Jews to remove occult and spiritual knowledge from the general populace and place power in the hands of a select "Chosen" few, to the detriment of all mankind. If you truly study history, it will be revealed to you that Enki is the worlds oldest God and the story of the bible and the Judeo/Christian God YHWH is a much newer and recently formed idea. Most of the stories of Genesis, the flood, adam and eve, confusion of the languages, were copied from the stories of Enki by the Hebrew people. All their doctrines, in my opinion, are about spiritual enslavement to the God YHWH and his son Jesus Christ, which I believe to be fictitious entities. It is quite obvious from history that Jesus never existed, if you study history it's very clear that the events of the new testament never took place. There was something like a 30-50 year gap to when the story of Jesus supposedly happened, and when the gospels were written. True open mindend non-literalist christian scholars know that the gospels were allegory of a mythical being, not a real story. The early christian church took the gospels and used them for their own goals, and presented them as fact when there is little to no real historical evidence that Jesus of Nazereth ever existed.

He is trhe oldest God, but you can't prove he is real. It is faith based, as is other religions. There is much evidence that he did exist actually. Whether or not he was divine is still up for argument. The gospels were written the day after Jesus dies. They took time to be written, and evenmore time to come to public light, as the Romans initially comdemned the Christian rise.

Let's talk about Christianity now. The basis of christianity is that you need the blood sacrifice of Jesus to save your soul from eternal hellfire. Well let me ask you this, what kind of God. curses his children for eating some magical fruit that HE KNEW they were going to eat. If he's really all knowing(which I think he isn't from studying the horrible advice that even christians don't follow that he gives in many parts of the bible) He would know Adam and Even were going to eat from the tree of knowledge. So he set them up to fail, and then he punishes all their descendants for something he knew they would do. That is no God I would want to revere or worship. Back on the topic of blood sacrifice, blood sacrifice is neither required or encouraged in the the worlds oldest and most valid religion, Satanism. Blood sacrifice is a concept from the Judeo/Christian bible:

Adam and Eve isn't a real story, it is a fictional story meant to tell us the double-edge sword of free will. God gave us free will, and therefore the option to do things we aren't supposed to. Blood sacrifice isn't done in Christian churches anymore. Sunday masses have bread and wine. The religion evolved over 2000 years buddy.

The christian God also requires worship. Satan dislikes worship (yet you worship him). In fact it's strictly forbidden in The Black Book of Satan. It's said you should never worship any Gods. You do not need to slaughter animals like the Jews used to do to gain salvation and Good tidings. You don't need the blood or metaphorical sacrifice of some mythical man on a wooden cross to bring you salvation. I believe heaven is a lie spread by the Jews. I believe you do not need Jesus or any other God to save you. All you need to do to save yourself from "hell" (the cycle of reincarnation) is to progress spiritually enough that you reincarnate as a God in the next life. I believe no blood sacrifice of some man named Jesus can save you. In fact no God can save you. It is your own duty, in my opinion. You need to meditate, practise magick, study all the knowledge you can, and work out and progress your physical being. Doing all this will raise your spiritual power threshhold and greaten your chances of reincarnating into a God and saving yourself from the cycle of reincarnation. In my opinion, praying and giving yourself over and  essentialliy being a slave, to someone who is in my eyes a mythical figure, won't save you from anything. Nothing good comes without work. In my opinion NO ONE will forgive you for your sins, they will be a blight of bad karma upon your soul until you've paid your dues. The idea that you need blood sacrifice or help from some demi-god to save you is repulsive to me. The idea that all your sins can be forgiven just at the flick of a wrist of a God is immoral and complete irresponsible in my opion.

Reincarnation is a Hindu belief...now your all over the place. I control my own destiny. Going to church and saying an occasional prayer doesn't make you a slave. Your sins can be forgiven if you truly are sorry and make up for it however you can.

Your ignorance of ALL THE BAD STUFF in the bible is appalling. You cannot point out some of the good stuff it says and act like it represents the whole message. Here's the thing, EVEN SATAN SAYS there's good things in the bible, and all the good stuff about love and peace is in accord with Satans will, but whatever was changed from his message has been altered..

The Al Jilwah
The Black Book of Satan


Chapter I

I was, am now, and shall have no end. I exercise dominion over all creatures and over the affairs of all who are under the protection of my image. I am ever present to help all who trust in me and call upon me in time of need. There is no place in the universe that knows not my presence. I participate in all the affairs, which those who are without call evil because their nature is not such as they approve. Every age has its own manager, who directs affairs according to my decrees. This office is changeable from generation to generation, that the ruler of this world and his chiefs may discharge the duties of their respective offices everyone in his own turn. I allow everyone to follow the dictates of his own nature, but he that opposes me will regret it sorely.

Long time visitor, first time poster.

You think Hell is a nice place? Well the concept of Satan is that he lures you with the promise of a good and easy life. Then you die and Hell is the worst place imagionable. Thats how Satan gets you. You support him and he convinces you that life is good if you do so, giving you false hope that the afterlife is even better. Its a lie, because thats what he does, he corrupts.

You are clearly a rebel, I see your display picture, and you claim to smoke a lot of weed. Ergo I can deduce that you are a 20 year old idealist with no real maturity, and haven't developed nearly enough life experience you require to be truly successful. You say age has nothing to do with maturity. This is absurd. You don't see many child politicians, doctors, etc. A child doens't get the idea of home ownership, earning a living, the responsibility of parenthood, being in a relationship/married. You also claim grammar is useless, that as long as people understand you then that is enough. It always helps you if you can formulate words with complexity and elequance to truly express your thoughts. Talking at a 6th grade level kills your credibility in any serious discussion.

You are an example why Satanists aren't doctors, in business, or science positions.....or even earn over 40 000 per year.  Your appearance and ideals will condemn you to living paycheck to paycheck at a menial job, while hoping your unappreciated amateur art/music talents will land you the big money. It's unfortunate if your parents are well off, gave you all the opportunities in life, and you squander that with your rebel appearance (thus killing any chance of getting a respectable job), weed smoking, which limits your cashflow and ambition.

Funny how you mention Judasm and Chrisitianity, not mentioning religions like Islam, which is essentially a Arabic offshoot of Christianity, and currently the worlds fastest growing religion. They will jail and or kill you for not believing in Allah if you degraded their relighion if you lived in their countries...count yourself blessed that Christain countries tolerate your immature and deluded beliefs.

Satanism = Easy way out of life. And with the easy way out, you will never be successful, have no ambition, and give in to your lesser impulses with no real direction. Your appearance, drug problem, and ambitions (satan rebels into art and music never go mainstream and earn the big money) only prove your belief system is extremely flawed. Make 50k+ per year and then well talk.

I focus on what is the core of the Christian religion, which is love.  To say you hate the religion is to condemn the whole of it, which is to condemn love, and looking at widows and orphans in their time of distress and keeping undefiled by the world.  Main issue I can say I have with the New Testament is what is in 1 Corinthians about women having their heads covered.  As for the rest, I don't have issues.

But sorry here, on what you wrote there, how is THAT not as offensive as what you are appauled by?  You have issues with bending your knee?  Nah, I think you prefer to bend you knee to one who forces things by war.  Your choice.  Do what you will, I got mine, and if you don't like it, I harm you.  Really?  Sorry, that is not love.  It is nicely compatible with Objectivism though.

Someone did call this trolling on my wall, and it is trolling.  It is rebelling in hopes that the almight God shows up and smotes you, but when doesn't, you use it as your own justification for what you want.  It is pretty sad actually.

I focus on what is the core of the Christian religion, which is love.  To say you hate the religion is to condemn the whole of it, which is to condemn love, and looking at widows and orphans in their time of distress and keeping undefiled by the world.  Main issue I can say I have with the New Testament is what is in 1 Corinthians about women having their heads covered.  As for the rest, I don't have issues.

But sorry here, on what you wrote there, how is THAT not as offensive as what you are appauled by?  You have issues with bending your knee?  Nah, I think you prefer to bend you knee to one who forces things by war.  Your choice.  Do what you will, I got mine, and if you don't like it, I harm you.  Really?  Sorry, that is not love.  It is nicely compatible with Objectivism though.

Someone did call this trolling on my wall, and it is trolling.  It is rebelling in hopes that the almight God shows up and smotes you, but when doesn't, you use it as your own justification for what you want.  It is pretty sad actually.