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Forums - Sony Discussion - Opinion: The Vita Problem

Soleron said:

 

Development priority for third party games right now looks like: 360>PS3>Future MS/Sony>3DS>Wii U>PSV>DS>Wii


I would doubt that all third parties would look to the vitas 3 million install base and overlook the 170million people walking around with hardware that can play DS titles. My maths puts it at 56.666 recurring times more likely to get a sale of your game if you put it on the DS than Vita atm. Heck even nintendo dropped Pokemon Black and White 2 onto the ds rather than 3DS just because there are so many more sales to be had there than anywhere atm.



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F0X said:
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:
JoeTheBro said:
F0X said:


Really? I could've sworn that 3DS has more 90+ games. Let's also not forget that Virtue's Last Reward is on both systems. Which Metacritic seems to forget...

EDIT: Oh wait. I guess they added reviews since I last checked. But not all of the 3DS version's reviews are there, so the metascore is skewed. The 9.5 from IGN should be for both versions, according to the review. It even said that both versions were basically equal in that review. :P

I really don't care about VLR, it's on both systems... Going off of just exclusives the Vita is neck to neck with the 3DS in terms of quality and grows at a similar rate. Of course since the 3DS has been out for twice as long it beats the Vita in terms of quantity. That doesn't heavily factor in when saying the vita has a "lack of high quality games."


I'll grant you that the 3DS has had a head start, but the Vita exclusive list does not impress me. I'm not seeing much in the way of killer apps - high quality games that move systems - and that's what the Vita desperately needs. I'd argue that the 3DS has at least three, and even more if we count Japanese titles. What does Vita have? Uncharted? Looking back at Metacritic, that doesn't touch the likes of Super Mario 3D Land.

No, I think Sony's approach is almost completely wrong. Vita needs more games like LBP, ones that are good exclusive games that work perfectly in a handheld context, and apply console-level (or nearly so) presentation to them. No more sqeezing Uncharted/Assassin's Creed/CoD onto Vita in hopes that a big name will move units. Smart handheld game design will move units (though if Sony can manage to attach a big name to the product, then that's a bonus).

Well to a Sony fan it has at least a couple killer apps but I completely agree. If a Vita game is associated as being a console game, it will be reviewed as one. Uncharted is better than any other game like it on portables yet it is lacking compared to the later console games. LBP Vita worked because it is actually better than LPB2. If Sony is making a Vita game with a console IP, it better be just as good as the version on PS3. I think they are learning though since apart from cross-buy games (which are a 1 to 1 port), its lineup is mostly new ips.

 

"To a Sony fan" is all well and good, but I could also say that the 3DS has at least five killer aps for Nintendo fans, as opposed to the mainstream gamer crowd.

Golden Abyss is indeed better than any game of its particular type of a portable system. Yet, I don't think it adapted perfectly well to its system. I've heard about some less-than-ideal mechanics based around Vita features, which either means the developer doesn't know how to execute a Vita Uncharted game to its potential or the Unchated game has little business being on a Vita.

@bold That's a good way for Sony to shoot themselves in the foot. Vita is no PS3 (especially power-wise) and shouldn't be treated as such. If LBP Vita is better than LBP2 (which, by the way, has no basis in metascore), then it's because LittleBigPlanet is better suited to the Vita than the PS3. For example, the PS3 doesn't have a touchscreen to assist in level editing, which if I recall was a major point in the game's favor. Point being, the best way to one-up a console experience is to play to the platform's strengths and use smart design, not try to copy paste.

I don't get cross-buy or the purpose of 1:1 ports. Maybe it's just me and the fact that I don't buy handhelds to play console games on, because to me that's counterintuitive and downright inferior to playing a game that is designed for the unique features of the handheld and the typical habits of a handheld gamer. Even so, some ports don't bother be too much. I can imagine playing Sly 4 on Vita, particularly since the developer is apparently designing that version a bit differently.


Uncharted: GA had only one non optional Vita specific feature and that was swiping in combat and occasionally swiping on a ledge. Some people like me love it, others find it so so. Either way Golden Abyss's problem was story based. The core game was perfectly in line with the console versions but the plot was much shallower. The Uncharted experience fits great on the vita though.

LBP2 is better than the first yet it also has a lower score on Metacritic. Reviewers don't score sequels as high since the originality is gone. The reason LPB Vita is better than LPB2 isn't because the game works better with a touch screen or anything, but because the game adds even more features. You know how LBP2 added grappling hooks and the like as well as many other new features? Well LBP Vita does the same. Levels are not only simpler to make (thanks to touch) but have more possibilities. One of the great things is the Memorizer. This allows a level to save data allowing hundred hour long rpgs to be freely exited without having to restart.

@my bolded part. Well the Vita is already displaying graphics than what the PS3 could do at launch. It isn't as powerful but when better optimized it should be able to fully replicate any PS3 game. But I'm not talking about replication here, I'm talking about quality. As you said most handhelds are played at home so it better be just as enjoyable and fun to play Killzone Vita as it is to play Killzone 3. That however doesn't mean Killzone Vita needs to be as long or complex but just as fun.

Cross-buy is great because I can be playing a game on PS3 and instantly swap to playing it on Vita. With PSASBR the game is perfect on both handhelds and home consoles so it would be silly to play two different games. Also porting a PS3 game to Vita apparently only takes a few months. It is a very small investment yet it helps expand the Vita library. I'm sure you can agree having Black Ops 2 ported to Vita would have helped out more than Declassified.



justinian said:
Adinnieken said:
justinian said:
And this is me thinking that the vita problem was that no one was buying it. What do I know?

Even if the console had addressed all the issues you mentioned it would still be a poor seller.

And it's poor sales that is any console's biggest problem...regardless of it's capabilities.

Sony needed to released a handheld that was truly revolutionary. Too many consumers the vita is not, that's it's problem.

If it had included a base amount of memory of 16-32GB internally, it would be selling better.

If it had included a base memory of 16-32GB it would cost much more and many people did not buy it in the first place because they thought it was too expensive as it is.

99.99% of your average potential consumer don't care how much memory it has.

The DS (and now 3DS) didn't kick butt because of it's huge memory and powerful hardware. Proof if ever you need it that it is not about memory or power.

It likely would have cost less than $5 more for 32GB.  Don't equate Sony's inflated proprietary memory with the actual cost of flash memory.

I also disagree with your assessment.  Storage isn't necessary on a 3DS.  It is on the PSV.  Therefore, making storage a mandatory need, yet not including it, discourages from people purchasing the Vita because the proprietary memory is so expensive and adds to the cost.  A cost that Sony could have made significantly smaller by adding memory to the unit.





Adinnieken said:
IamAwsome said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

It's an infinite loop: The Vita is not selling due to lack of high quality games, and the lack of high quality games is due to the Vita not selling.


Not to mention that handheld consoles are casual by default while the Vita is trying to attract the "hardcore" audience.

I wouldn't call all handhelds casual by default. Nintendo tried to make the 3DS seem hardcore to no avail, and Sony tried TOO hard to make the Vita hardcore. One of those systems needs to hit the middle ground to really tap into the handheld market. 

Onto another point: The general cosunsus right now is that the Vita needs games. 

Everyone thought that Uncharted would carry the system, but he just doesn't have the brand power of Mario. People thought that other brand names like Resistance, LBP, and Assassin's Creed would carry it.  Call of Duty has the brand power Sony needs, but the game itself is extremely terrible according to reviews. Other than COD, Uncharted, LBPVita, and various PS3/360 ports, the Vita doesn' t have much to offer; granted it hasn't been out that long, but the games should be here by now. 

With that said, come E3 2013, Sony should come out of the gate with a Gran Turismo game (that will actually launch sometime soon ^_^), and be prepared to show people why they bought the Vita (like Nintendo did with the 3DS in '11). At this past E3, all we really got was PASBR and Call of Duty. We already knew about the games on the show floor, but nothing new? At this point Sony HAS to have something in development for it. If E3 2013 doesn't save the Vita, then at that point nothing will. 


This is the same excuse used with the PS3.  It just needs a killer game.  In the end, it wasn't a killer game that made the difference but a price reduction and a new gamepad.

Then when it wasn't happening, even from first-party developers, the blame went to developers.  I don't think developers are the problem, I think once again we're looking at limitations within the hardware that make it more difficult to make compelling games on the Vita.

First off what new gamepad saved the PS3? The PS Move? I agree with you on the price reduction. 

 

Second, I doubt the hardware itself is the problem, the fact that Sony markets it as  "PS3 in your hands" and not as a true portable console scares developers away because nobody wants to spend console budgets making portable games. The PSP had a similar problem. What potential hardware limitations and bottlenecks keep devs off of the Vita? The only limitation I see is, like I said, overspending development budgets. 



What Sony needs to do is this.

-Launch a new PS Vita bundle that has PlayStation All-Stars in it
-Drop the price to $199 for the Wi-Fi model (yes moving it into red territory, but it isn't like it is helping being black right now. Since people aren't buying it in massive numbers)
-Have the bundle be with all major color revisions (every region has a different amount of colors)
-Include a 4gb Memory Card
-Include a 30-Day PS+ Voucher code
-Pre-installed demos for LittleBigPlanet PS Vita, Lego Batman 2 and Uncharted: Golden Abyss

While they are at it, they can also discontinue the 3g model. In my entire time of selling these system, the 3G model is not what people are interested in.



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Guy. I don't mean to interrupt you dooming Vita. But it really is WiiU's turn. It's just released and deserve all the dooming that we've giving Vita for the last several months.



Not enough RPGs.



Also every system should come with 8GB internal memory.



teigaga said:
Not enough RPGs.

Yes we need more of the PSP RPGs to come over to PSV, thats only going to happen if Sony concede and discontinue the PSP. Though im guessing its extremely easy money for them so why would they? 
Edit: Yes 8GB minimum. 



PSP Lifetime more than PSV+3DS Lifetime.

krafty89 said:
teigaga said:
Not enough RPGs.

Yes we need more of the PSP RPGs to come over to PSV, thats only going to happen if Sony concede and discontinue the PSP. Though im guessing its extremely easy money for them so why would they? 
Edit: Yes 8GB minimum. 

Yeah, I can't express my confusion on why FF Type 0 isn't on the VIta already. Sony needs to understand these titles are bigger then any IP they could release for the system, they could have taken the entire resistance:burning skies budget and used it to secure type 0 for release back in spring, that one title could have made the system twice as successfull as it is today. And sony are missing another opportunity with the One Piece RPG coming to the psp this december. Why is there not a Vita version with its own bundle??? Did they think COD:Declassified was gonna be the game to sell the Vita in japan? Sometimes I feel like throwing my Vita out the window and waiting patiently for nintendo to release their HD handheld in 2017