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Forums - Gaming - Dispelling the myth: The Wii market is (NOT) bigger than the HD twin market

 

So, what's your take?

News to me. 6 9.38%
 
I already knew. 58 90.63%
 
Total:64
happydolphin on 01 November 2012

@Roma. :) Hush you.

@Force Unleashed. Just wanted to post the numbers.

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed X360 2008 Action LucasArts 1.58 0.68 0.00 0.24 2.50
2 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed PS3 2008 Action LucasArts 0.92 0.69 0.00 0.30 1.91
3 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed Wii 2008 Action Activision 1.02 0.51 0.00 0.17 1.70
4 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed PS2 2008 Action LucasArts 0.49 0.60 0.01 0.16 1.25

Did you guys think the Wii version was worthy of the HD version?



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oniyide on 01 November 2012
happydolphin said:
oniyide said:

You dont need to pay close attention or to look at gaming news to clearly see what a system might be capable of doing. If I look at a game from the WIi library and one from the PS360 library, without knowing anyting I can at least come to the conclusion that hey the PS360 is clearly capable of more than the Wii is.

As for PoP i was under that that game underperformed, period. IMHO anyone who was saying COD is comparble on Wii either really love the pointer controls and can deal with it running like crap or they are lying to themselves.

Only question that remains is, was COD given an honest push, worthy of Wii's userbase, or was it given the sub-par treatment? If it was given the full treatment then you end up being right on all accounts, since the game sold better on the system that sells better. But if the Wii version is sub-par, your argument gets nerfed.

That's why I'm asking, was COD Wii bad? I haven't played it much so I don't really know.

The problem with COD on Wii is even if it was "good" it still would be worst than the other versions, and thats exactly what has happened for the last few entries. The Wii simply cannot handle all that that game throws at it and you have things like screen tearing, texture pop in, MW3 had atrocious lag(they supposedly improved with a patch). Treyarch did the BEST they could do. And thats my point, no matter how well the Wii version would have been made it would still not do as well because the HD version would still be better (most of the time) just by the nature of those systems being THAT much more powerful than WIi and capable of more on all fronts. The irony is that COD on PS360 isnt even top of the line anymore its been running on the same engine as MW1, Bioshock, KZ, Halo, Borderlands, BF, hell id say even the lastest MoH blows it away visually IMHO. Now if WIi cant even run COD properly what hope did it have running some of the more taxing games.

COd on Wii isnt bad, its the best it can be.



F0X on 01 November 2012
happydolphin said:
F0X said:
happydolphin said:

But I still think the reason for it is something we can argue a bit.

Is it because the market was poorly supported, and thus the twins "stole" sales off the Wii, or was the PS360 version simply going to be the better choice regardless, bottom line, and hence people chose what was better?

We need more data maybe to slice it.


It's neither to me. The market had support from... outsourced crap and PS2-grade downports. There would be more of a market if the market wasn't being given cow dung every time. If developers had made the effort to make at least some good Wii version, even if they weren't as good as the other versions, the situation wouldn't be as bad as it is. And yes, it is possible to make a good Wii version. It's been done before. It simple takes something I like to call "smart design choices" and "effort". Both of which aren't so dependent on raw power.

I understand your argument, but does it apply to COD, for example? Do you think the Wii version of COD was no good?

Sometimes if effort is put on both, the HD version ends up with the edge, especially in the case of shooters due to the nature of the game and the need for higher precision in graphics (to hit smaller targets).


It's on a case to case basis. Some shooters are excellent on the Wii, like Metroid Prime 3, because it is designed in a way to remove frustration without dampening the creative and innovative design. Sin and Punishment: Star Succesor is one of the few recent rail shooter masterpieces, because it squeezed out a frentic, memorable experience at 60 fps with near perfect controls that made complete sense on Wii.

In tha case of CoD and company, they served their purpose as downported experiences. I've known some people who really like the Wii versions, but in reality you're right - the graphical limitations and default control method don't make it a good fit. Activision, to their credit, has at least made it work. But a unique CoD game for the Wii, with a very different approach to design (suggestion: Halo-esque multi-person vehicles would actually work since one person is concentrated on driving and the others are totally focused on aiming) might just work. It's up to Activision: have a unique Call of Duty, port a Call of Duty game, or do nothing. I don't think the Wii would suffer greatly in any of those situations. *chuckle*

At any rate, I'm not arguing that every type of game is going to be of the same quality as the HD consles. In most cases I can see a graphically superior verison having a gameplay edge. But there's no excuse for the crap we've recieved over the years, either. Developers and publishers could have and, I believe, should have done a better job.



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F0X on 01 November 2012
oniyide said:
F0X said:
happydolphin said:
oniyide said:

Ive never even heard of those terms, but i still wager that even those people know about what is better. Look at a screenshot for a wii game then look at the HD version of the same guy, almost night and day in each instance, if this were true why didnt Wii versions of games do as well as HDs if the true hobbyists is such a small number?

Read FOX's comments on Forgotten Sands though, apparently the Wii version was the best in that case. It's a case by case thing, not because one looks prettier that the game is better, come on now, it's not necessarily the case.


I'm okay with "it's the exception that proves the rule" argument.

Or the "core gamers only care about graphics so hah!" argument.

Honestly the only reason why I'm here is because I don't get to talk about The Forgotten Sands enough. Apparently I've been the only one who cares... even among the Wii owners!

you know no one cares when the PSP version sold more, something aint right with that


I know, right? It had a meta of 65, too. It's terrible. I don't even know how it sold so much... wasn't the PSP dead in the West back in 2010?



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oniyide on 01 November 2012
happydolphin said:

@Roma. :) Hush you.

@Force Unleashed. Just wanted to post the numbers.

PosGamePlatformYearGenrePublisherNorth AmericaEuropeJapanRest of WorldGlobal
1 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed X360 2008 Action LucasArts 1.58 0.68 0.00 0.24 2.50
2 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed PS3 2008 Action LucasArts 0.92 0.69 0.00 0.30 1.91
3 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed Wii 2008 Action Activision 1.02 0.51 0.00 0.17 1.70
4 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed PS2 2008 Action LucasArts 0.49 0.60 0.01 0.16 1.25

Did you guys think the Wii version was worthy of the HD version?


As a guy who bought and played both Wii and PS3 version...it was good but still not as good as the HDs for various reasons. motion control in the game is overrated, using the nunchuck to force push is awesome and swinging the wiimote around like a lightsaber is fun...until you have to try any of the special moves and there is a few. Good luck doing that the wiimote sucks in accuracy so the best you could hope for is just getting two swings out, forget trying to do special moves.

graphics and visuals...not even close. HD had more enemies on screen...hell there was a whole section when your on a star destroyer fighting stormtroopers and chucking them at passing tie fighters in the hanger...they didnt even put that section on the Wii they said screw it.

difficulty the Wii version was easy as hell. Despite it having more levels, its all a deception. The levels on the Wii version are very short. Hell you can get through about three of them and still be on one level on the HD version, so in the end the WIi version still ended up being shorter. 

Story not the fault of Wii but the version left out a lot of elements. I played the WIi one first and was confused, didnt make sense until i got my hands on the PS3 one. For instance that old Jedi master you fight in the game, they dont even show him being blinded on the WIi version he just shows up with and bandage on his eyes. Starkillers training droid got much more attention and story built up on the HD version. So when obiwan shows up for no reason it actually makes sense

no DLC either. nuff said. All in all Wii version is a good game, and i dont regret my purchase but still not better than the others. Damn I wish they would have taken advantage of motion+ for the sequel.



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happydolphin on 01 November 2012

Just want to say thanks to all the awesome post. Another success for me, we did it guys, we had a good convo, brought out good points, without ripping anyone's head off. I'm proud of you.



oniyide on 01 November 2012
F0X said:
oniyide said:
F0X said:
happydolphin said:
oniyide said:

Ive never even heard of those terms, but i still wager that even those people know about what is better. Look at a screenshot for a wii game then look at the HD version of the same guy, almost night and day in each instance, if this were true why didnt Wii versions of games do as well as HDs if the true hobbyists is such a small number?

Read FOX's comments on Forgotten Sands though, apparently the Wii version was the best in that case. It's a case by case thing, not because one looks prettier that the game is better, come on now, it's not necessarily the case.


I'm okay with "it's the exception that proves the rule" argument.

Or the "core gamers only care about graphics so hah!" argument.

Honestly the only reason why I'm here is because I don't get to talk about The Forgotten Sands enough. Apparently I've been the only one who cares... even among the Wii owners!

you know no one cares when the PSP version sold more, something aint right with that


I know, right? It had a meta of 65, too. It's terrible. I don't even know how it sold so much... wasn't the PSP dead in the West back in 2010?

The only logical explanation is that there is a bigger fanbase for PoP on PSP than their is on Wii. Im not trying to start crap, i cant think of another reason its not like the PSP version even had previews or any kind of attention at all. Or maybe it was that much cheaper anyone got a better explanation I would love to hear it. 



F0X on 01 November 2012
oniyide said:
F0X said:
oniyide said:
F0X said:


Either because you don't know there's a better version, or you don't care that there is. Once again I look at The Forgotten Sands, having played both versions, and think "If only they knew."

Why wouldnt I know if there is a better version? Im a core gamer so im going to know what is better and whats not. And i would absoulutely care if there is a better version especially if its miles better


I don't believe that all gamers that identify themselves as "core" pay so close attention. Playing games regularly doesn't automatically equal keeping up on all the news, and I've seen cases of core gamers who play games regularly, but focus on certain genres or franchises, so they have a bit of tunnel vision concerning different types of games. Don't assume that all core gamers are uber-informed like us VGChartz afficionados.

Now, those who pay extra attention to PoP (the fanbase) are the ones who are most likely to pick up the Wii version of TFS in any scenario (and I imagine many ploncking down the cash for both versions), so this is a good test to see how many really informed, dedicated gamers follow the series. Or (and this is a total assumption that doesn't matter) perhaps some people don't bother with reviews so much and would rather play a game of the platform of their preference even if the version isn't as good, meaning there are a large number of people in the fanbase that I really don't want to associate with. Actually that might explain why people are saying CoD was comparable on Wii (not me!)

You dont need to pay close attention or to look at gaming news to clearly see what a system might be capable of doing. If I look at a game from the WIi library and one from the PS360 library, without knowing anyting I can at least come to the conclusion that hey the PS360 is clearly capable of more than the Wii is.

As for PoP i was under that that game underperformed, period. IMHO anyone who was saying COD is comparble on Wii either really love the pointer controls and can deal with it running like crap or they are lying to themselves.


What a system is capable of doing doesn't automatically translate to what the system will do in every scenario. It's lazy thinking to assume that, well, the HD twins are more powerful so every game is going to be leagues better so I should ignore any good Wii versions that may have their own original ideas since, after all, the platform did have far more promise than most developers delivered on.

Perhaps PoP:TFS would've performed better in a hypothetical scenario where the Wii version can't be considered the most worthwhile, or a situation where developers put as much effort in as Ubisoft Quebec did (which somehow apparently was more effort than the A-Team working on the other version).



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F0X on 01 November 2012
oniyide said:
F0X said:
oniyide said:
F0X said:


I'm okay with "it's the exception that proves the rule" argument.

Or the "core gamers only care about graphics so hah!" argument.

Honestly the only reason why I'm here is because I don't get to talk about The Forgotten Sands enough. Apparently I've been the only one who cares... even among the Wii owners!

you know no one cares when the PSP version sold more, something aint right with that


I know, right? It had a meta of 65, too. It's terrible. I don't even know how it sold so much... wasn't the PSP dead in the West back in 2010?

The only logical explanation is that there is a bigger fanbase for PoP on PSP than their is on Wii. Im not trying to start crap, i cant think of another reason its not like the PSP version even had previews or any kind of attention at all. Or maybe it was that much cheaper anyone got a better explanation I would love to hear it. 


It's really dumb considering how much better-looking nearly every other version is. Oh well. There was that Prince of Persia movie out and the PSP was having its last remotely decent year I guess. Or maybe Prince of Persia has a history of doing well on Sony platforms (until this gen).

Or maybe I'm living in the wrong universe.



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oniyide on 01 November 2012
F0X said:
oniyide said:
F0X said:
oniyide said:
F0X said:


Either because you don't know there's a better version, or you don't care that there is. Once again I look at The Forgotten Sands, having played both versions, and think "If only they knew."

Why wouldnt I know if there is a better version? Im a core gamer so im going to know what is better and whats not. And i would absoulutely care if there is a better version especially if its miles better


I don't believe that all gamers that identify themselves as "core" pay so close attention. Playing games regularly doesn't automatically equal keeping up on all the news, and I've seen cases of core gamers who play games regularly, but focus on certain genres or franchises, so they have a bit of tunnel vision concerning different types of games. Don't assume that all core gamers are uber-informed like us VGChartz afficionados.

Now, those who pay extra attention to PoP (the fanbase) are the ones who are most likely to pick up the Wii version of TFS in any scenario (and I imagine many ploncking down the cash for both versions), so this is a good test to see how many really informed, dedicated gamers follow the series. Or (and this is a total assumption that doesn't matter) perhaps some people don't bother with reviews so much and would rather play a game of the platform of their preference even if the version isn't as good, meaning there are a large number of people in the fanbase that I really don't want to associate with. Actually that might explain why people are saying CoD was comparable on Wii (not me!)

You dont need to pay close attention or to look at gaming news to clearly see what a system might be capable of doing. If I look at a game from the WIi library and one from the PS360 library, without knowing anyting I can at least come to the conclusion that hey the PS360 is clearly capable of more than the Wii is.

As for PoP i was under that that game underperformed, period. IMHO anyone who was saying COD is comparble on Wii either really love the pointer controls and can deal with it running like crap or they are lying to themselves.


What a system is capable of doing doesn't automatically translate to what the system will do in every scenario. It's lazy thinking to assume that, well, the HD twins are more powerful so every game is going to be leagues better so I should ignore any good Wii versions that may have their own original ideas since, after all, the platform did have far more promise than most developers delivered on.

Perhaps PoP:TFS would've performed better in a hypothetical scenario where the Wii version can't be considered the most worthwhile, or a situation where developers put as much effort in as Ubisoft Quebec did (which somehow apparently was more effort than the A-Team working on the other version).

On the multiplat side?? yeah it is im not talking about whatever exclusive game would have been made for Wii. But i can probably think of maybe 5 games that are actually BETTER on Wii than they are on PS360. If you can think of more i would like to hear them.

As for PoP ill take your word for it, never played any version. But something is to be said for it selling the worst of them all. Not sure what you are saying though, if the HD versions would have been better the game would have sold more?? Well yeah, that wont mean it would really translate sales to Wii version