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Forums - Sony - Ultimate Goal for Orbis: Run 1080p, 60frames with no problem. Powerful enough for today and tomorrows markets. Affordable but not a slouch.

ManUtdFan said:
All talk of aiming for 60fps actually annoys me. Am I the only person gaming on a 50hz tv?? I only bought it 3 years ago when most televisions were 50hz, at least in UK. I don't want graphics tearing or input lag issues from playing next gen games but it looks inevitable. There was 'motion interpolation' back then which effectively doubled a tv's refresh rate though I'm not sure if the extra frames would have eliminated tearing for 60fps games.

Does anyone feel this is an underrated issue or is it just me? Wouldn't it make better sense for game developers to aim for 50fps instead, not a huge difference from 60fps?

How is that different from some current console games running at 60 fps (Forza Motorsport 4) or COD games? Also, modern GPUs from Nvidia already have Adaptive Vsync which doesn't drop the framerates in half like traditional Vsync does (i.e., in the past if you fell below 60 fps, the frames would drop to 30 and lock). AMD is also working on a newer driver to incorporate double vsync feature. By the time these next generation consoles launch, there could be an adaptive vsync solution in place.

Traditional Vsync:

Adaptive Vsync technology disables Vsync when the frame rate drops below 60 fps level so the game can smoothly transition to 58, 57, 45, etc. frames without stuttering, and without dropping all the way to 30 Hz.

I think the main point regarding 1080P @ 60 fps is a general assessment of how powerful the hardware is supposed to be. It doesn't mean that each game will run at 60 fps from the time PS4 launches to 2020. The problem is based on these specs, no way can they even get 1080P @ 60 fps in modern games coming out in 2014-2015. 

 

VGKing said:
For those saying this will only be a bit more powerful than Wii U, you're probably wrong.
The 1st devkit supposedly included a separated graphics card on top of the APU. This new rumor seems to have left out that part. 

Either way though I'd be happy with the system even if its only moderately more powerful than a Wii U. There are 2 more devkits to go before it becomes final so here's hoping for more POWAH!

I didn't mean to insinuate that PS4 will only a bit more powerful than the Wii U because we don't know the final specs of either console. The comparisons to Wii U I made are only based on rough specifications we have of Wii U's GPU vs. A10-5800K APU. If PS4 has an APU + dedicated GPU, of course it's an entirely different comparison. Personally, I agree with you that there will be a separate GPU and an APU. AMD allows for hybrid cross-fire with its Trinity APU. However, if the console only has an APU and no dedicated GPU, it will be a massive flop graphically. 

Sony's large investment in the Cell didn't pay off since the console was penalized by the slower RSX Nvidia GPU. By focusing on the graphics sub-system rather than trying to fit a $200 CPU into the console with a $100 GPU, they can make a better balanced console as opposed to PS3 that had a significantly more powerful CPU over Xbox360 but a much slower GPU, in the end hardly allowing PS3 to stretch its legs (and actually making it too expensive for most developers to optimize and extract all that power from the Cell).

Off the shelf PC components would work right away without any need to optimize as the dual-graphics hybrid option has already been proven and tested on the PC space. That means the developers would be able to immediately start harnessing that power without needing 3-4 years to learn the ins and outs of the CPU and GPU design. A good budget choice for dual graphics would involve pairing an A10-5700/5800 with a Radeon HD6570 or 6670 (remember the HD7660D is just an HD6000 series). You would get a decent increase in performance without a severe power consumption penalty, making it a cost effective option for a console. If Sony goes the APU route, they get a "free" GPU. The APU+low-end dedicated GPU would maximize the investment into the APU over say a full-blown Bulldozer/Piledriver desktop CPU by shifting the priorities onto graphics as opposed to a powerful CPU. 

A10-5800K + HD6570 = AMD Dual Graphics (Will Obris follow this path?)




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BlueFalcon said:

When Sony launched PS Vita earlier this year, they put a top-of-the-line mobile GPU inside:
4-core SGX543MP4+

Apple just launched the latest $499 iPad 4 with PowerVR SGX543MP4 (quad-core graphics) despite Sony incorporating this GPU into the Vita as early as February 2012.

Based on Sony's push to have very high-end mobile GPU graphics in the Vita, I find it somewhat odd that Sony would do a 180* turnaround and put the lowest end GPU into their next generation in-home console. It makes no sense. If Sony wants to cater even more to hardcore gamers, they would need to use a dedicated GPU of some sort to be able to play next generation DX11 games. Not only that but even in current games, A10-5800K has no chance to play them at 1080P @ 60 fps. Even with console centric optimizations, that APU is simply too weak.

The source of this rumor states:

There is “no difference” between Orbis and PlayStation 3′s outputs, according to the source.

^But A10-5800K, by virtue of being based on HD6000 series GPU, can only drive 4K resolution displays over Displayport 1.2. You need HD7000 series GCN to drive 4K content over HDMI through "3Ghz Fast HDMI," exclusive feature of GCN-based HD7000 series. If Orbis won't have Display Ports, then Sony can't support 4K TVs, which contradicts that Sony will support 4K TVs.  You also need Fast HDMI to be able to support 1080P Stereo 3D gaming / BluRay 3D at 60 Hz per eye with next generation TVs. Therefore, the source is contradicting itself, unless this is a very custom part that includes some GCN features inside HD6000 series GPU made specifically for Sony.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/8


I agree, VITA has top specs for a mobile, because of this, I'm sure that both PS4 and 720 will come with TOP specs for a home console.

 

I believe that both consoles will bring a contract model, so you pay something like $200-$300 and sign 2-3 years of PS+ X-LIVE with monthly fee. Or pay something like $499 off contract.



No rumors of any gimmick so far.



If they're specifically calling it a 256GB drive, then I have no doubt it's Solid State.

I think the specs will be great, but can Sony really afford to launch a new console within a year? And if they can't, and decide for a holiday 2014 release, they'll be the last one to the market... and probably the most expensive, again. I worry for the future of Playstation beyond this gen.



green_sky said:
Sounds so awesome. That last line annoys me though. Why not keep it for E3. I am talking "Sony is expected to announce the new console “just before E3″ next year, according to the source." There is so sense of wonder left for E3 anymore. Reckless Sony leaks or announces everything before. Argh.


Sony are trying to take the wind out of the WiiU's sails some, I guess.



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ethomaz said:
Kresnik said:
VGKing said:

UK Tvs are 50hz, US its 60hz.

I'm sure games are optimized for that as long as you don't import them.


I'm pretty sure UK TV's have been able to run 60hz for quite some time.  I know Smash Court Tennis Pro Tournament (PS2) had the option wayyy back and I used it.  I also had to play some of Wild ARMs 4 in NTSC mode because of some glitch, and that required 60hz too :o

The PAL standard uses 24hz and 50hz... NTSC standards uses 30hz and 60hz... but there aren't no real difference.

And all new HDTV uses PAL or NTSC automaticaly based in the console or player output.

Thanks for clearing that up, but does that mean I've been playing Battlefield 3 and Bad Company 2 at 24fps?!! It plays awfully smooth for 24fps. Some PC players think 60fps is inadequate! 



Stinky said:
green_sky said:
Sounds so awesome. That last line annoys me though. Why not keep it for E3. I am talking "Sony is expected to announce the new console “just before E3″ next year, according to the source." There is so sense of wonder left for E3 anymore. Reckless Sony leaks or announces everything before. Argh.


Sony are trying to take the wind out of the WiiU's sails some, I guess.

I suppose so. It would be nice to be surprised in a conference from time to time though. Nintendo doesn't let much leak out. 



BlueFalcon said:

A10-5800K + HD6570 = AMD Dual Graphics (Will Obris follow this path?)

.....


Nice summary but the graphs show the inherent problem: you are way short of 60Hz, even with lower quality settings. Even assuming absolutely direct driver access in the PS4 for the quasi XFire layout, I don't see it reach 1080P/60Hz, Though the ram layout (translation: use expensive GDDR5) plays an unknown factor here, too. In the end, the law "Separate CPU (with its own ram) and separate GPU (with its own ram) wins" cannot be tricked, APUs are an excellent idea for handheld/laptop gamers, but a very bad idea for things that want to compete with PC gamers.



Bristow9091 said:
What are the specs of the AMD A10, is it any good? I've never heard of it lol...

If it has 8GB of RAM, that'd be amazing, if it had 16GB... that'd be overkill and would allow devs to just go nuts and do whatever they want and not complain. The HDD seems to be fine, especially if it means no mandatory installs with a faster bluray drive too, and running at 1080p 60FPS would be absolutely amazing, my PC struggles to do that with most games, and I've spent a ton on it, lol.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if the price is high, since I was happy enough to buy the PS3 for £425 when it first launched her in the UK, and I've not regretted it at all.

Sony will DEFINITELY be taking a loss, a pretty huge one I reckon, with each console sold, if they want the price to be competitive, and if it isn't, and costs over £300 or something, everyone will complain and hate them for not giving a price cut like a month after release, lol. They have to realise that Sony doesn't want to be losing hundreds of pounds/dollars per sale, but it's going to have to happen, and since they seem to be in trouble already, it's going to suck for them...

PS4's slogan will be "why get a PS4 when a Vita is cheaper?"



Before the PS3 everyone was nice to me :(

As long as it isn't $599USD it's sounding alright.