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Forums - General - Teachers and leaders of American Society need to stop telling our kids to go to College!

richardhutnik said:
JoeTheBro said:
I agree with the general idea but not those hogwash ideas in your post. If you don't have the drive to go to college of course you shouldn't go. But if you are on your way to becoming the next Bill Gates, you should not be forced into trade school. And 4 years of a language goes against your main point. If a kid is just going to do construction, he should not be forced to learn German lol.

What is needed is high schoolers get sufficient education to enter into the job market at a competent entry-level position on the higher end.  The college system is now broken.  It produces twice as many graduates as there are positions for, all saddled with debt that doesn't match what the pay is.  I would say to add two more years of technical training on top of high school, to get people ready for the work force.


Working with a lot of kids, I think it'd be better to cut the last year off of HS and add an extra year for trade school or college prep (if they want to go that route).



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Mr Khan said:
richardhutnik said:
JoeTheBro said:
I agree with the general idea but not those hogwash ideas in your post. If you don't have the drive to go to college of course you shouldn't go. But if you are on your way to becoming the next Bill Gates, you should not be forced into trade school. And 4 years of a language goes against your main point. If a kid is just going to do construction, he should not be forced to learn German lol.

What is needed is high schoolers get sufficient education to enter into the job market at a competent entry-level position on the higher end.  The college system is now broken.  It produces twice as many graduates as there are positions for, all saddled with debt that doesn't match what the pay is.  I would say to add two more years of technical training on top of high school, to get people ready for the work force.

An additional idea here is that it would be wise for people to have a broader knowledge base. In JoeTheBro's hypothetical post, what's Construction Kid going to do after the next housing bubble?

The economy's a fast-moving beast, and an interdisciplinary education is a good thing to have.


Do you realize how wide of a discipline construction is? Construction has a lot more going on than simply building houses. Look at infrastructure & maitenance: they all follow the same discipline. Those don't require significant retooling.



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HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:

I come from a country where higher education is mostly free ( except some private schools business MBAs) so it's going to be hard for you to sell me on that ...

Heck I was paid by my school while getting my engineering degree..

 

The education of it's people is the one area where a government should intervene and pour money, because that's where the future of the country is decided...


I'm pretty positive your country didn't make education "affordable" by enabling people to take out loans for education regardless of how expensive it gets.

 

If the government didn't become involved the typical school would see enrollment drop if they increased tuition too quickly or to too high of a level and tuition would increase at (roughly) the rate of inflation. Schools would have less money and the president and administrations' salaries would increase (roughly) at the rate of inflation, new buildings would be built as-needed rather than the excessive building that is happening on many campuses, and schools would have to demonstrate return on investment in order for students to qualify for loans.

When the government steps in to make loans more "affordable" they only make whatever the loan is buying more expensive.

Government pays for the university and engineering school in my country, not the students with tuitions fees.

Tuition fees still exist but they are very low compared to the US ( we're talking 500$/year or so in average).



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mrstickball said:

It also hurts the "Dirty Job" trades, which are being more and more handled by immigrants. That isn't a problem, per-se, but there are a ton of good trade skill based jobs with few people working on them. People don't want to take part in a hard day's labor for a good day's pay. I have a friend that is a president of a machine shop. He can't get anyone to work for him, because the work is 50hrs a week, and pays about $35,000 a year - and he's willing to train anyone that wants to work for him. He keeps telling me that everyone views manual labor as "bad", leading to an adverse effect on the industry.

This is the problem right there.  That pay is not worth that amount of hours.  On top of that, that pay just isn't enough anymore.  Atleast in Canada anyways, you can't live on your own unless you're making 45k a year and even that's pushing it.



darkknightkryta said:
mrstickball said:

It also hurts the "Dirty Job" trades, which are being more and more handled by immigrants. That isn't a problem, per-se, but there are a ton of good trade skill based jobs with few people working on them. People don't want to take part in a hard day's labor for a good day's pay. I have a friend that is a president of a machine shop. He can't get anyone to work for him, because the work is 50hrs a week, and pays about $35,000 a year - and he's willing to train anyone that wants to work for him. He keeps telling me that everyone views manual labor as "bad", leading to an adverse effect on the industry.

This is the problem right there.  That pay is not worth that amount of hours.  On top of that, that pay just isn't enough anymore.  Atleast in Canada anyways, you can't live on your own unless you're making 45k a year and even that's pushing it.


1. That was starting wages for a 18 year old. In a few years, it'd be a bit more than that. 

2. Where I live, $35,000 a year is more than enough to sustain a family.



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mrstickball said:
darkknightkryta said:
mrstickball said:

It also hurts the "Dirty Job" trades, which are being more and more handled by immigrants. That isn't a problem, per-se, but there are a ton of good trade skill based jobs with few people working on them. People don't want to take part in a hard day's labor for a good day's pay. I have a friend that is a president of a machine shop. He can't get anyone to work for him, because the work is 50hrs a week, and pays about $35,000 a year - and he's willing to train anyone that wants to work for him. He keeps telling me that everyone views manual labor as "bad", leading to an adverse effect on the industry.

This is the problem right there.  That pay is not worth that amount of hours.  On top of that, that pay just isn't enough anymore.  Atleast in Canada anyways, you can't live on your own unless you're making 45k a year and even that's pushing it.


1. That was starting wages for a 18 year old. In a few years, it'd be a bit more than that. 

2. Where I live, $35,000 a year is more than enough to sustain a family.

If 35k is enough to sustain your family, then I'll take your word for it, but doesn't change the fact that he should be giving more if he's having trouble finding people.



spurgeonryan said:

 

 

There is no  point and it is not helping anyone out. How many Business, Marketing, Environmental, etc majors do we need in America? Meanwhile jobs are being outsourced overseas as America discovers that they cannot do anything anymore. Everyone wants to become a millionairre business man or women, go to Hollywood, or get a degree in something that they enjoy doing. Music Theory? Bachelors in history? Get Real America!

I thought that was the American dream. 

We need to be pushing our kids to study a Trade in high School. Have something to fall back on when their degree in the Arts possibly ( most likely) get them no where in life. There was a time when a Factory worker could pay his or her bills and raise a family. Now those jobs are jokes and immigrants are doing them for minimum wage.

I agree it is too popular and there needs to be an alternative to university (it's something not everyone was supposed to go to). I guess Job standards, especially in America, are far too high now.

How about this. When you turn 18 it is mandatory to sign up for Selected Services. How about we make it mandatory for kids to take at least one class a year towards some sort of trade. You pick it as a Freshman and see it through to the end. Forget Math, History, and that other nonsense!

Yeah good idea, something like a mechanic, a technician or a salesman 

Four years of a language should be mandatory as well. No one in America learns anything or remembers anything from two total foreign Language classes.

If learning a foreign language is done, hire people who are actually good at teaching it. I was taught Spanish at my school for 5 years and came away, knowing a few phrases lol

 

What do you all think would help future jobs and our Children be successful? Do you think everything is wrong?

Teachers make too little? Or do you think Teachers 70,000 a year is plenty since they get 2-3 months off as well.

Give grants to people looking to start and grow a new business to generally increase competition in the private market, as it should generate wealth and jobs.

Finally, I think teachers make a fair wage. While Bankers, sportsman and Politicians make far to much money





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What about just making them choose usable degrees?



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darkknightkryta said:
mrstickball said:
darkknightkryta said:
mrstickball said:

It also hurts the "Dirty Job" trades, which are being more and more handled by immigrants. That isn't a problem, per-se, but there are a ton of good trade skill based jobs with few people working on them. People don't want to take part in a hard day's labor for a good day's pay. I have a friend that is a president of a machine shop. He can't get anyone to work for him, because the work is 50hrs a week, and pays about $35,000 a year - and he's willing to train anyone that wants to work for him. He keeps telling me that everyone views manual labor as "bad", leading to an adverse effect on the industry.

This is the problem right there.  That pay is not worth that amount of hours.  On top of that, that pay just isn't enough anymore.  Atleast in Canada anyways, you can't live on your own unless you're making 45k a year and even that's pushing it.


1. That was starting wages for a 18 year old. In a few years, it'd be a bit more than that. 

2. Where I live, $35,000 a year is more than enough to sustain a family.

If 35k is enough to sustain your family, then I'll take your word for it, but doesn't change the fact that he should be giving more if he's having trouble finding people.


35k should be fine for an 18 year old. Once he does get around to starting a family, which would probably be 5-15 years, I imagine he would make a fair amount more than that.

My mom and I lived fine off of about $20,000 a year. It wasn't a luxrious life, but it was okay. I'd imagine one person with nearly double that amount should be fine as well.



c03n3nj0 said:
NintendoPie said:
I think you're almost completely wrong.

Though (good) teachers should get payed more and bad teachers should get fired, no holding back on teachers should be tolerated.


I agree; tenure is bullshit. If bad teachers were in any threat of being fired then maybe they'll get their crap together. 

Thank goodness someone understands!