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Forums - General - Teachers and leaders of American Society need to stop telling our kids to go to College!

Mr Khan on 25 September 2012
xwan said:

Yah i agree with need everything ok, not disregarding english majors or "international studies" but you know some of these majors you do not need to spend 4 years studying..like international studies....and i was a psych minor, by the end of the 2nd semester I didn't even hear anything new... it's Erik Erison, Freud, Jung, Pavlov everyday...i can't imagine some of my class mates did 4 yrs of it. But again that is just my personal opinion as i am now relatively successful starting from biology major and work my way up to medicine.

 

International Relations major here, and i'd either like to see you explain exactly why Vietnam is currently closer to the USA than it is to China, or don't bash the major you don't know.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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xwan on 25 September 2012
Mr Khan said:
xwan said:

Yah i agree with need everything ok, not disregarding english majors or "international studies" but you know some of these majors you do not need to spend 4 years studying..like international studies....and i was a psych minor, by the end of the 2nd semester I didn't even hear anything new... it's Erik Erison, Freud, Jung, Pavlov everyday...i can't imagine some of my class mates did 4 yrs of it. But again that is just my personal opinion as i am now relatively successful starting from biology major and work my way up to medicine.

 

International Relations major here, and i'd either like to see you explain exactly why Vietnam is currently closer to the USA than it is to China, or don't bash the major you don't know.


If u think this topic is worth 4 years of "hardcore" studying; be my guess. I am not bashing your major, it is obvious some major requires more work than other. And it is fact on average, science major makes more than non-science major if you want to use money to judge success. Like I said, some would like to use self-fulfilment or happiness to judge success which is fine with me. Some major can definately be done in less than 4 yrs, IMO psychology can be done in 2 yrs if they condense course work; being a psych minor i thought it was a joke; was 3 classes away from double major didn't even bother.



HappySqurriel on 25 September 2012
Mr Khan said:
xwan said:

Yah i agree with need everything ok, not disregarding english majors or "international studies" but you know some of these majors you do not need to spend 4 years studying..like international studies....and i was a psych minor, by the end of the 2nd semester I didn't even hear anything new... it's Erik Erison, Freud, Jung, Pavlov everyday...i can't imagine some of my class mates did 4 yrs of it. But again that is just my personal opinion as i am now relatively successful starting from biology major and work my way up to medicine.

 

International Relations major here, and i'd either like to see you explain exactly why Vietnam is currently closer to the USA than it is to China, or don't bash the major you don't know.


The problem isn't that you don't learn things in certain degrees, or that these degrees are useless, they just graduate far too many students and the degree has little value in the workplace.

As an example (all numbers made up), for every 10,000 people in a city there is probably 1 full time position for someone with an international relations background and, since the average career is about 40 years long, a city will have to graduate someone with an international relations degree for every 400,000 people in the city. In a city of 1,000,000 people it wouldn't be unusual to be graduating 25 international relations students, which means that 1 in 10 students will find a job in their field.



Kasz216 on 25 September 2012
xwan said:
Kasz216 said:
xwan said:

I am afraid you are wrong, it has been consistently shown that higher education leads to higher IQ and better critical thinking skills.

You've somehow got that amazingly backwords.

It's that people with higher IQs... and critical thinking skills are more likely to get into college.

These things lead to higher education, not the other way around.

I don't think so, there are plenty of smart people who are too lazy to go to college that do not succeed. There are plenty of people who are mediocre but hard working and work towards a degree that leads to a good paying job and a bright future.

Um... you do reaize that statement proves my point right. 

 



Kasz216 on 25 September 2012
Mr Khan said:
Completely disagree

The only thing that needs to change is the expectation that a college degree will automatically get you a job. At the same time, however, a well-rounded liberal arts education is invaluable. To reach our true potential as people, we need to be more than economic animals, and while laboring trades are perfectly acceptable things, nothing's stopping an educated man from doing them, either.


It's called a library.

Or the internet.

It's really easy to get that information if you just want to get it.

I know because well.. I already knew most of what I was taught in my liberal arts degree.



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maverick40 on 25 September 2012

I am happy with my Rocket Science Degree and my masters in atomic physics. I hopefully will be working for Intel next year on an amazing salary. So yeah, university is needed for sure.



Mr Khan on 25 September 2012
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Completely disagree

The only thing that needs to change is the expectation that a college degree will automatically get you a job. At the same time, however, a well-rounded liberal arts education is invaluable. To reach our true potential as people, we need to be more than economic animals, and while laboring trades are perfectly acceptable things, nothing's stopping an educated man from doing them, either.


It's called a library.

Or the internet.

It's really easy to get that information if you just want to get it.

I know because well.. I already knew most of what I was taught in my liberal arts degree.

And how much time do most people have to learn something completely new and distinct, something they may not have been interested in otherwise, in the limited free time they have around work?



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

thranx on 25 September 2012
xwan said:
thranx said:
xwan said:
pokoko said:
xwan said:
Going to college is more than just getting a degree or earning a "useless major"; compare someone who only went to high school versus someone who went to college, the level of critical thinking is very different. And again, compare someone who went to college and someone who went to grad school there is yet another gap. There are materials you learn from your mentor, professors, and college level course you do not get in "trade" school.

Do you want a job, or do you want a career? Being an electrician is a job, being a successful entrepreneur is a career.

I, myself, have gone through 4 years of University with a biology major, then 4 years of medical school, and 3 years of internal medicine residency. That's 11 more years of schooling than people who did not go to college. The level of thinking, reasoning, degree of religious/political tolerance is totally different. I had plenty of friends who dropped out of high school, or finished high school and did not pursue college they seem to be stuck where they were 11 years ago when I hang out with them (nothing wrong with that i guess...).

And I hang out with my college friends, even though our discussions are more sophisticated, they are still less thoughtful than with my "doctor"-friends; I have to definitely adjust my conversation with my HS friends vs my college friends vs my medical school friends.

Education is never bad, if you don't think so that's because you haven't discover the wisdom in the books yet; most of u guys are young and probably in ur late teenage years. My only advice to you is keep reading, and keep your play time apart from your study time. I grew up as a gamer, didn't have the best grades in school. But hey, the only way to "level up" yourself is to study! There is no way around it.

Bullcrap and sophistry.  You do not automatically have better reasoning skills and religious/political tolerance (seriously?) because you went to college.  It also does not mean that you do not read as much as anyone in higher education.

I, myself, have owned two successful store-front businesses, which I sold for a profit after 3 and 5 years respectively.  That was before I went back to get my Associates degree.  Most of my classmates who went to college were puffing on joints and taking classes they did not care about while I was earning real-world experience dealing with customers, vendors, and employees.  Yes, college can be a good thing, but it certainly does not mean a person is more intelligent or capable than someone who did not go.


I am afraid you are wrong, it has been consistently shown that higher education leads to higher IQ and better critical thinking skills. Of course IQ is not be-all; end all to intelligence, there are other aspects such as EQ. Who knows, if you have a PhD in business maybe you are now owner of more than 2 store front business, maybe you have a company that is much bigger because you realize you had better ways to monetize it.

How do you expect Albert Einstein to build the atomic bomb without reading all the books, learning all the theories first? How do you expect me to come up with a list of 15 differential diagnosis of common cold without having to first memorize the 15 things first and then be able to utilize it later on and apply it in real life.

If you think you are learning a bunch of things you don't use, you are wrong; you use it everyday. Eventhough most of us learned calculus in high school do not end up using it in your professional life, i certainly hope you know what "are under the curve" measn when people are talking to you in both business and math terms. You have already gained the knowledge and you are already using it in an abstract way without realizing it.

You guys take things for granted, you have the concept of bacteria, virus, cells, and molecules because you learned this from your high school and college course, even though you are now a business man it doesn't mean these biology concepts are useless to you. If you have cancer and I tell you the results, you can at least appreciate it from an abstract level that it is some abnormal cell in the body.If you are in some third world country that you never went to school, you will probably seek out a Witch Doctor to try to cure your "cancer" by some stupid "chant".

All you guys do not even realize the value of education, and you walk into any major University lab and you walk into any major Teaching hospital; all the good doctors and pHds all speak with an foreign accent. How far have we fallen behind as a country. This country needs to encourage people to go to college and beyond. Leave the burger flipping jobs for those who doesn't want to go thru college, it's their choice and thats what they are content with, sooner or later there will be robots taking those jobs as well and you will find urself obsolete

excuse for various typos, did it kind of fast.

Oh please. Get off your high horse. I know many graduates from college and they are just as "smart" as they were in highschool. College is a business now. Real world experience is a must, thats why so many good jobs require actual experience in your field, not just a degree that many people can get now. Its too easy for stupid people to get degrees now. Pile that with massive student debt and you will find that a lot of college grads are being passed by people who put time into the companies they work for. Whats happened with the push for college is that a college degree no longer means much, its more a show of comintment than of knowledge. At least in the US it is.


Good luck trying to to even get face time for interview without a degree

No need for me to get a job. I have a great one already and in the next few years will be a small business owner my self. College is not for every one. Yes it has its place for certian fields of work and study, but for the vast majority of current college attendees would of been better served going to a technical school of some kind, or getting into a trade of some kind, or getting an entry evel job and working their way up in a company. I will agree with you that having a college degree will help you get a job, but not because you are any smarter or have a higher iq, or better critical thinking skills. Its simply because a college degree is shows you can commit to something and finish it and is an easy way to set a barrier to entry. But couple that with the student debt and its just not worth it. I still make as much or more than many college grads i know from my class But with out any debt I have more purchasing/saving power than them. Its really a sad state and we will see this as a big problem as people can not find jobs that are good enough to pay off their student debt(and college is only geting more expensive, way more expensive)



Kasz216 on 25 September 2012
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Completely disagree

The only thing that needs to change is the expectation that a college degree will automatically get you a job. At the same time, however, a well-rounded liberal arts education is invaluable. To reach our true potential as people, we need to be more than economic animals, and while laboring trades are perfectly acceptable things, nothing's stopping an educated man from doing them, either.


It's called a library.

Or the internet.

It's really easy to get that information if you just want to get it.

I know because well.. I already knew most of what I was taught in my liberal arts degree.

And how much time do most people have to learn something completely new and distinct, something they may not have been interested in otherwise, in the limited free time they have around work?

Are you really argueing free time when you are supporting something that takes several hours several days a week for four+ years?



HappySqurriel on 25 September 2012
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Completely disagree

The only thing that needs to change is the expectation that a college degree will automatically get you a job. At the same time, however, a well-rounded liberal arts education is invaluable. To reach our true potential as people, we need to be more than economic animals, and while laboring trades are perfectly acceptable things, nothing's stopping an educated man from doing them, either.


It's called a library.

Or the internet.

It's really easy to get that information if you just want to get it.

I know because well.. I already knew most of what I was taught in my liberal arts degree.

And how much time do most people have to learn something completely new and distinct, something they may not have been interested in otherwise, in the limited free time they have around work?

30 minutes a day, 6 days a week, for 4 to 6 months will give most people similar understanding to 1 semester long course. In most cases since the individual tends to be more motivated to learn it on their own, they're able to retain focus because their learning periods are shorter, and they're getting more regular instruction, the person who is studying on their own will often learn substantially more in this time frame than the student.