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Forums - General - Teachers and leaders of American Society need to stop telling our kids to go to College!

Ail on 29 September 2012
mrstickball said:
Ail said:
mrstickball said:
richardhutnik said:

A middle ground that would work is the last year of high school now be training for a trade, and then the following year be an internship where they go into the field.  You end up adding one more year of schooling, but the last one would be work, preferably paid.

I understand colleges are graduating twice as many people as there are positions for.

Its not surprising. I've said it a thousand times, but looking at bachelor's degree statistics by decade is very eye-opening.

Here's a link:

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d11/tables/dt11_300.asp

From 1976-7, approximately 919,000 million degrees were conferred to men and women.

In 1989-90, it was 1,050,000, or an increase of 10,000 degrees per annum.

From 1989-90 to 1999-2000, it jumped to 1,237,000, or an increase of 18,700 degrees per annum (a 87% increase in the growth per annum in just 10 years).

From 1999-20 to 2009-10, it jumped to 1,650,000, or an increase of 41,300 degrees per annum - an increase of 120% in 10 years.

 

What should that tell you? The growth of degrees conferred has ballooned 413% in just 20 years. Just like home ownership, that creates artificially high prices, meaning our students are over-paying and under-recieving when it comes to college. Even worse, the critical STEP degrees are doing horrible. There has been virtually no growth in the number of students in ~30 years. Those are the degrees that *really* matter, as they create technologies that drive our economy forward.


That's not how you compute an increase or a rate of growth..

An increase of 120% over 10 years like you write it would mean 2.7 million degrees in 2009-10.

Sure, but I was trying to demonstrate how much the growth of bachelors' degrees have increased using a different model.


You were trying to make the numbers say what you wanted ;)



PS3-Xbox360 gap : 1.5 millions and going up in PS3 favor !

PS3-Wii gap : 20 millions and going down !

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theRepublic on 25 October 2012
HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:

So only the rich should get to go to college ?

Money shouldn't be the factor in who gets the good degree, skills of the students should be...


If it wasn't for the government's interference in higher education to make it more affordable, education would be far more affordable for everyone ...

 

 

To make a rough guess, I would say that without government intervention the average 4 year degree would cost between $30,000 and $40,000

 

What essentially happened is what happened when used car loans were introduced; a 5 year old used car jumped from being worth a few thousand dollars to being worth tens of thousands of dollars because everyone who used to be able to save up $2,500 to buy a 5 year old car now qualified for a $10,000+ loan on a used car. The car they were buying didn't change, they just paid more because they could afford to and the people who sold them the car made more money.

I'll just leave this here...



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HappySqurriel on 25 October 2012
theRepublic said:
HappySqurriel said:
Ail said:

So only the rich should get to go to college ?

Money shouldn't be the factor in who gets the good degree, skills of the students should be...


If it wasn't for the government's interference in higher education to make it more affordable, education would be far more affordable for everyone ...

 

 

To make a rough guess, I would say that without government intervention the average 4 year degree would cost between $30,000 and $40,000

 

What essentially happened is what happened when used car loans were introduced; a 5 year old used car jumped from being worth a few thousand dollars to being worth tens of thousands of dollars because everyone who used to be able to save up $2,500 to buy a 5 year old car now qualified for a $10,000+ loan on a used car. The car they were buying didn't change, they just paid more because they could afford to and the people who sold them the car made more money.

I'll just leave this here...

I'm not sure what your point was ...

The entire reason tuition can increase at a faster rate than inflation is because the government backs loans to students to pay these outrageous tuition rates.

For a wide variety of reasons an "arms race" has been created in colleges throughout the United States (and to a lesser extent most of the western world) where colleges and universities are spending more and more money to attract students and faculty. Building more new buildings, funding expensive college athletics programs, and paying "professors" more to do less teaching and more research all costs money and (as long as students can find money through cheap credit to pay for it) increasing tuition will provide colleges and universities the money they need to cover these costs.



tonymarraffa on 25 October 2012
spurgeonryan said:
And for all of you saying that education leads to higher IQ. Who cares? Tell me who loses their job during the next recession. What is the Wall street broker going to do then when he does not know how to do anything else. Every kid and his Mother is going for a business degree. We are a nation of Greedy, skill less, lazy, fat humans and the rest of the world is stepping all over us. India, china and South America have our jobs. These Business graduates like Joe the Bro are outsourcing American jobs as we speak to save their company a few percentage points so that they can have a new Mercedes next year or a bonus and a trip to Venice. But some day when the Government cannot give out 500 billion dollars or more in stimulous packages then all those bankers and businessmen and whoever else that should have got a bump will be on the streets scrapping at doors looking for a hand out because they have no skills. They know nothing other than how to balance the books properly.

American Schools need to push skills on to our children. Not just computer skills either. just think what you could fall back on if you had some sort of degree or certification with electronics!

AGREE 100%!



theRepublic on 25 October 2012
HappySqurriel said:
theRepublic said:

I'll just leave this here...

I'm not sure what your point was ...

The entire reason tuition can increase at a faster rate than inflation is because the government backs loans to students to pay these outrageous tuition rates.

For a wide variety of reasons an "arms race" has been created in colleges throughout the United States (and to a lesser extent most of the western world) where colleges and universities are spending more and more money to attract students and faculty. Building more new buildings, funding expensive college athletics programs, and paying "professors" more to do less teaching and more research all costs money and (as long as students can find money through cheap credit to pay for it) increasing tuition will provide colleges and universities the money they need to cover these costs.

And your solution is?



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HappySqurriel on 26 October 2012
theRepublic said:

And your solution is?


Phase out (or at least cap) government backed student loans ...

Hypothetically speaking, having the government limit the student loan growth over a year to the average tuition of a public college over the previous year would create significant pressure on colleges and universities to control theri costs; because they can't simply increase tuition to recover their spending.