By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why PS4 won't be cutting edge, and neither will Xbox3 - or Why Nintendo might win next gen

 

Is my reasoning sound?

Hellz yeah! Spot on 265 33.42%
 
I never thought of it like that.... 69 8.70%
 
So it's the mental institution next for you? 101 12.74%
 
So very, very wrong 266 33.54%
 
I'm a pussy with no opinion 88 11.10%
 
Total:789
DanneSandin said:
freebs2 said:
DanneSandin said:
 

The rumor has it that xbox3 will come bundled with Kinect 2.0, so that's gotta be more expansive than the version we got today. As I stated in the OP, I believe 3rd party developers would make games for WiiStation (if they're similar in power) and therefore not utilizing Xbox3's ful capacity.

You could be right but it depends on how much the newest game engines and tools are scalable. Also why should Ps4 and WiiU be similar in power? WiiU it's not a big genertion jump for Ps3 and 360 owners, in terms of graphics at least. I understand Sony can't probably afford to sell on loss anymore but the ps4 needs to be significantly more powerfull than WiiU otherwise, ps3 owners won't see a generation gap to justify the console upgrade.

Imo a possible sceario is Ps4 launching between 399$ and 499$ by the end of 2013 (by that time the WiiU could likely be sold at profit for 249$ and 299$). Supposing the ps4 won't have a tablet-pad but a reagular controller, this should be enough to make the console more powerfull than WiiU by a significant margin and still selling on profit. I think the paragon between Ps4 and WiiU is fair enough since both will have to face the same exchange rates porblem.

Also you're making an assumption when you implicitly say, developers will want to create an equivalent port of their games on every possible platform. This has happened this gen because market shares were more or less equally split. But you can't know if same thing is going to happen next-gen. During Ps2/GC/Xbox days, the ps2 got the most of 3rd party exclusives, and that's obviously not because the games couldn't be ported on GC and Xbox but simply because the Ps2 was a dominant console. Now let's say, to make another assumption, microsoft will go aggressive next-gen and will launch a cutting-edge xbox3 for a similar price to the (not cutting edge but tecnically superior to WiiU) Ps4. In this case the Xbox3 could have tha chance to gather both ex-360 users and ex-ps3 users and become a new dominant console, hence it could give 3rd parties a reason to fully utilize xbox3 capacity.

 

Crono141 is right you know; the economy won't allow a system launching at $499. I'd say that no system will launch above $399.99 and be successful in the coming years.

And if you read the OP

I've read the OP, in fact I gave a price assumption for Ps4 basing on WiiU, we all know Nintendo won't sell WiiU at loss, and also the same exchange rates problem must be applied for both Ps4 and WiiU.

And yes, PS3 owners are gonna want a generation leap to purchase a new system. But it's not gonna be anything like the leap from PS2 to PS3. Wasn't PS1 to PS2 a generation leap as well? Yes, it was - and that's the kind of leap we'll see nect gen.

I've never said the next-gen leap will be like old-gen leap, on this fact I agree with you actually. What I meant was Sony won't likely stay too much low-profile on console specs, since they have to give a valid upgrade reason for Ps3 owners. If they make Ps4 more or less equal to WiiU in terms of graphics they won't see a reason to upgrade. (btw. This is of topic but I actually think the Ps1->Ps2 leap was superior to Ps2->Ps3 leap.)

I'm assuming that all 3 consoles will get equel 3rd party support because of the costs of developing games nowadays. We all know it cost a shit load making games this past gen for PS360, and it's this reason that's making your "PS2 exclusive 3rd party support" invalid. Back then, having 3rd party exclisives worked - it was of the business had worked for 2 decades. But that business model fell through when development costs rose through the roof this gen. 

But yes, if X3ox is HUGE (in the same way PS2 was huge) then they'll probably get exclusive 3rd party games. 

All true but I'm not necessarily talking about 3rd party exclusives, I just mean developer could be interested in optimize Xbox version, expecially if, like you say, engines are scalable.

Anyway I don't think your argument is wrong but at the moment there are still too many untold variables to tell if things are going to be like that, it's a bit early to tell. Actually I'm in crowd rooting for WiiU.



Around the Network
Degausser said:

ALso, I don't think even after PS4 / 720 launches that Wii U will dry up on third party support for the short term. While I'm sure the big publishers (Acti, EA, Ubi) will all have some big, powerhouse exclusive on the PS4 / 720 pushing whatever hardware they have to the new limit, most companies can't afford to do that and stuff like COD and Assassins Creed are just too big not to make on the current tech (WiiU, PS3 and 360) and simply release 'upscaled' type versions on the PS4 and 720.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really thats worth a read imo, it basically says what we've been saying albeit no ones still totally sure how powerful the Wii U is and how much horsepower Sony / Microsoft have planned.

Next gen we may be surprised with the AAA games... or the lack of.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/sep/12/yves-guillemot-ubisoft-interview

With the next console generation approaching, and a new era of very wide cross-platform release schedules, do you think you'll be making fewer titles?
With next gen consoles, it's going toward bigger games, and yes, we will make less of them.

If Ubisoft, one of the few successful developers this gen, is making less AAA games next-gen, imagine what will happen with the rest and who will be able to take advantage of the extra power of the new consoles.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
Degausser said:

ALso, I don't think even after PS4 / 720 launches that Wii U will dry up on third party support for the short term. While I'm sure the big publishers (Acti, EA, Ubi) will all have some big, powerhouse exclusive on the PS4 / 720 pushing whatever hardware they have to the new limit, most companies can't afford to do that and stuff like COD and Assassins Creed are just too big not to make on the current tech (WiiU, PS3 and 360) and simply release 'upscaled' type versions on the PS4 and 720.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really thats worth a read imo, it basically says what we've been saying albeit no ones still totally sure how powerful the Wii U is and how much horsepower Sony / Microsoft have planned.

Next gen we may be surprised with the AAA games... or the lack of.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/sep/12/yves-guillemot-ubisoft-interview

With the next console generation approaching, and a new era of very wide cross-platform release schedules, do you think you'll be making fewer titles?
With next gen consoles, it's going toward bigger games, and yes, we will make less of them.

If Ubisoft, one of the few successful developers this gen, is making less AAA games next-gen, imagine what will happen with the rest and who will be able to take advantage of the extra power of the new consoles.


 Thats pretty much what I said though, there'll be a few 'behemoth' type games pushing the strongest hardware to its limit - I limited it to one per publisher, and then the mid-tier stuff or mass-appeal stuff on every console available. There's definitely gonna be less (Retail, AAA, Huge-budget) games overall either way but that trend is just apparent if you compare this gen to previous gens, or just look at how companies have changed their development practise in the past 6 years.



logic56 said:

it wasn't just the most power handheld gaming console out it was the most powerful handheld out period, beating cell phones and tables alike, so when Sony announced it was only going to be 250 and seeing the 3ds also at 250 people were overly estatic NO ONE thought the 600 dollar price was reasonable, they brought it anyway becasue the ps3 was a new console.

This is what shocked everyone, it was the same price as the 3DS. Nintendo were quick though and they cut the price. I think SONY need to cut the Wifi model to $199, HappySqurriel is right about $250 being a bit too much to ask for a handheld.



HappySqurriel said:

I remember reading countless posts of PS3 fans defending the price, and I even remember watching the e3 wrap up videos and saw many of the "journalists" claim that $250 was too much to pay for outdated hardware (Wii) when they could buy bleeding edge hardware and a blu-ray player for $500/$600.

That's because they're not journalists. They're gamers. Which means they're biased. Which, again, means that they're not journalists :P



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

Around the Network
Degausser said:
askel50 said:

People keep missing the main point.

PS3, WiiU and XBOX 360 have almost the same power. There are some differences, the Wii may be slightly better (it has more RAM) but nothing that a normal consumer would notice or that good software can't overcome. If you don't see this then you are blind.

So where is the purpose (for sony and ms) in releasing a new console if the one you have now on the market CAN COMPETE and has:

- A better game library
- Lower production cost (recurrent costs)
- Zero development cost (one time costs, very high)

You make a restyle, cut the price, do a smartglass-like thing with comparative advertising and blow nitendo out of the market.

But this won't work because the industry need a progress. Developers demand it, chip makers demand it and gamers demand it. And you know? It won't even cost that much. Like someone pointed out, wasn't the gpu that dragged up the PS3 price.


 Indeed, having looked at a few articles speculating and interviewing developers I don't think people quite realise the gap that will once again open up between Nintendo's console and Sony / Microsoft powerwise. Unreal Engine 4 won't run on the Wii U but will most likely be the mainstay for third party PS4 / Xbox 3 games. Nintendo have made a console that will effectively play like a ps3 / 360 in the graphics department, while Sony and Microsoft will be taking things to the next level (Direct X 11, Unreal 4 etc). It's the nature of the video game industry since it existed, new consoles bring more power in big jumps. Unfortunately I think we'll have to wait for their announcement before some people see that 

 ALso, I don't think even after PS4 / 720 launches that Wii U will dry up on third party support for the short term. While I'm sure the big publishers (Acti, EA, Ubi) will all have some big, powerhouse exclusive on the PS4 / 720 pushing whatever hardware they have to the new limit, most companies can't afford to do that and stuff like COD and Assassins Creed are just too big not to make on the current tech (WiiU, PS3 and 360) and simply release 'upscaled' type versions on the PS4 and 720. 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really thats worth a read imo, it basically says what we've been saying albeit no ones still totally sure how powerful the Wii U is and how much horsepower Sony / Microsoft have planned. 

hahaha oh please, do not meantion eurogamer in this particular case! They have showed openly that they're biased against Nintendo and Wii U! bad choice of referens material mate ;)



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

freebs2 said:
DanneSandin said:
freebs2 said:
DanneSandin said:
 

The rumor has it that xbox3 will come bundled with Kinect 2.0, so that's gotta be more expansive than the version we got today. As I stated in the OP, I believe 3rd party developers would make games for WiiStation (if they're similar in power) and therefore not utilizing Xbox3's ful capacity.

You could be right but it depends on how much the newest game engines and tools are scalable. Also why should Ps4 and WiiU be similar in power? WiiU it's not a big genertion jump for Ps3 and 360 owners, in terms of graphics at least. I understand Sony can't probably afford to sell on loss anymore but the ps4 needs to be significantly more powerfull than WiiU otherwise, ps3 owners won't see a generation gap to justify the console upgrade.

Imo a possible sceario is Ps4 launching between 399$ and 499$ by the end of 2013 (by that time the WiiU could likely be sold at profit for 249$ and 299$). Supposing the ps4 won't have a tablet-pad but a reagular controller, this should be enough to make the console more powerfull than WiiU by a significant margin and still selling on profit. I think the paragon between Ps4 and WiiU is fair enough since both will have to face the same exchange rates porblem.

Also you're making an assumption when you implicitly say, developers will want to create an equivalent port of their games on every possible platform. This has happened this gen because market shares were more or less equally split. But you can't know if same thing is going to happen next-gen. During Ps2/GC/Xbox days, the ps2 got the most of 3rd party exclusives, and that's obviously not because the games couldn't be ported on GC and Xbox but simply because the Ps2 was a dominant console. Now let's say, to make another assumption, microsoft will go aggressive next-gen and will launch a cutting-edge xbox3 for a similar price to the (not cutting edge but tecnically superior to WiiU) Ps4. In this case the Xbox3 could have tha chance to gather both ex-360 users and ex-ps3 users and become a new dominant console, hence it could give 3rd parties a reason to fully utilize xbox3 capacity.

 

Crono141 is right you know; the economy won't allow a system launching at $499. I'd say that no system will launch above $399.99 and be successful in the coming years.

And if you read the OP

I've read the OP, in fact I gave a price assumption for Ps4 basing on WiiU, we all know Nintendo won't sell WiiU at loss, and also the same exchange rates problem must be applied for both Ps4 and WiiU.

And yes, PS3 owners are gonna want a generation leap to purchase a new system. But it's not gonna be anything like the leap from PS2 to PS3. Wasn't PS1 to PS2 a generation leap as well? Yes, it was - and that's the kind of leap we'll see nect gen.

I've never said the next-gen leap will be like old-gen leap, on this fact I agree with you actually. What I meant was Sony won't likely stay too much low-profile on console specs, since they have to give a valid upgrade reason for Ps3 owners. If they make Ps4 more or less equal to WiiU in terms of graphics they won't see a reason to upgrade. (btw. This is of topic but I actually think the Ps1->Ps2 leap was superior to Ps2->Ps3 leap.)

I'm assuming that all 3 consoles will get equel 3rd party support because of the costs of developing games nowadays. We all know it cost a shit load making games this past gen for PS360, and it's this reason that's making your "PS2 exclusive 3rd party support" invalid. Back then, having 3rd party exclisives worked - it was of the business had worked for 2 decades. But that business model fell through when development costs rose through the roof this gen. 

But yes, if X3ox is HUGE (in the same way PS2 was huge) then they'll probably get exclusive 3rd party games. 

All true but I'm not necessarily talking about 3rd party exclusives, I just mean developer could be interested in optimize Xbox version, expecially if, like you say, engines are scalable.

Anyway I don't think your argument is wrong but at the moment there are still too many untold variables to tell if things are going to be like that, it's a bit early to tell. Actually I'm in crowd rooting for WiiU.

Well, I disagree that a $499 console would sell very well nowadays and launching a systems at that price point would be a big mistake.

But I do agree with you that there's too many variables we don't know to make a good estimate of how powerful next PSbox will be, but that's what thread like this so much fun :D predictions is part of fandome, isn't it? ;) and, besides, if this turns out to be right I'm gonna Legend to my sig :D:D



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

DanneSandin said:
Degausser said:
askel50 said:

People keep missing the main point.

PS3, WiiU and XBOX 360 have almost the same power. There are some differences, the Wii may be slightly better (it has more RAM) but nothing that a normal consumer would notice or that good software can't overcome. If you don't see this then you are blind.

So where is the purpose (for sony and ms) in releasing a new console if the one you have now on the market CAN COMPETE and has:

- A better game library
- Lower production cost (recurrent costs)
- Zero development cost (one time costs, very high)

You make a restyle, cut the price, do a smartglass-like thing with comparative advertising and blow nitendo out of the market.

But this won't work because the industry need a progress. Developers demand it, chip makers demand it and gamers demand it. And you know? It won't even cost that much. Like someone pointed out, wasn't the gpu that dragged up the PS3 price.


 Indeed, having looked at a few articles speculating and interviewing developers I don't think people quite realise the gap that will once again open up between Nintendo's console and Sony / Microsoft powerwise. Unreal Engine 4 won't run on the Wii U but will most likely be the mainstay for third party PS4 / Xbox 3 games. Nintendo have made a console that will effectively play like a ps3 / 360 in the graphics department, while Sony and Microsoft will be taking things to the next level (Direct X 11, Unreal 4 etc). It's the nature of the video game industry since it existed, new consoles bring more power in big jumps. Unfortunately I think we'll have to wait for their announcement before some people see that 

 ALso, I don't think even after PS4 / 720 launches that Wii U will dry up on third party support for the short term. While I'm sure the big publishers (Acti, EA, Ubi) will all have some big, powerhouse exclusive on the PS4 / 720 pushing whatever hardware they have to the new limit, most companies can't afford to do that and stuff like COD and Assassins Creed are just too big not to make on the current tech (WiiU, PS3 and 360) and simply release 'upscaled' type versions on the PS4 and 720. 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really thats worth a read imo, it basically says what we've been saying albeit no ones still totally sure how powerful the Wii U is and how much horsepower Sony / Microsoft have planned. 

hahaha oh please, do not meantion eurogamer in this particular case! They have showed openly that they're biased against Nintendo and Wii U! bad choice of referens material mate ;)

Did you read the article? It's a very well rounded piece which looks at things from al sides and actually puts fourth a lot of the points any Nintendo fan would expect to be put fourth. Further the analysis of the hardware is done by actual games developers then just their editor speculating over RAM size and GPU numbers.

 There are other sources floating about but I don't think any are as favourable as the Eurogamer one I posted on the Wii U so there you go lol.



Degausser said:
DanneSandin said:
Degausser said:
askel50 said:

People keep missing the main point.

PS3, WiiU and XBOX 360 have almost the same power. There are some differences, the Wii may be slightly better (it has more RAM) but nothing that a normal consumer would notice or that good software can't overcome. If you don't see this then you are blind.

So where is the purpose (for sony and ms) in releasing a new console if the one you have now on the market CAN COMPETE and has:

- A better game library
- Lower production cost (recurrent costs)
- Zero development cost (one time costs, very high)

You make a restyle, cut the price, do a smartglass-like thing with comparative advertising and blow nitendo out of the market.

But this won't work because the industry need a progress. Developers demand it, chip makers demand it and gamers demand it. And you know? It won't even cost that much. Like someone pointed out, wasn't the gpu that dragged up the PS3 price.


 Indeed, having looked at a few articles speculating and interviewing developers I don't think people quite realise the gap that will once again open up between Nintendo's console and Sony / Microsoft powerwise. Unreal Engine 4 won't run on the Wii U but will most likely be the mainstay for third party PS4 / Xbox 3 games. Nintendo have made a console that will effectively play like a ps3 / 360 in the graphics department, while Sony and Microsoft will be taking things to the next level (Direct X 11, Unreal 4 etc). It's the nature of the video game industry since it existed, new consoles bring more power in big jumps. Unfortunately I think we'll have to wait for their announcement before some people see that 

 ALso, I don't think even after PS4 / 720 launches that Wii U will dry up on third party support for the short term. While I'm sure the big publishers (Acti, EA, Ubi) will all have some big, powerhouse exclusive on the PS4 / 720 pushing whatever hardware they have to the new limit, most companies can't afford to do that and stuff like COD and Assassins Creed are just too big not to make on the current tech (WiiU, PS3 and 360) and simply release 'upscaled' type versions on the PS4 and 720. 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-08-30-how-powerful-is-the-wii-u-really thats worth a read imo, it basically says what we've been saying albeit no ones still totally sure how powerful the Wii U is and how much horsepower Sony / Microsoft have planned. 

hahaha oh please, do not meantion eurogamer in this particular case! They have showed openly that they're biased against Nintendo and Wii U! bad choice of referens material mate ;)

Did you read the article? It's a very well rounded piece which looks at things from al sides and actually puts fourth a lot of the points any Nintendo fan would expect to be put fourth. Further the analysis of the hardware is done by actual games developers then just their editor speculating over RAM size and GPU numbers.

 There are other sources floating about but I don't think any are as favourable as the Eurogamer one I posted on the Wii U so there you go lol.

Epic has themsleves said that UE4 will be scalable and will be able to run on smartphones. So if WiiU isn't more powerful than a phone, then I gotta agree that Nintendo is doomed for sure. But if the WiiU is more powerful than iPhone5 it'll runt UE4 just fine. And the latest rumors have it that it'll use a custom AMD E6760, which is able to run Direct X 11.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

nice topic. just because Sony can't afford it, doesn't mean they won't do it.

think about it. they have that Personal 3D Viewer $799 and a 25,000 tv that i'm sure know one needs. why would you buy either of these devices?

the average person doesn't make the kind of money to purchase either of those items, but some nut at sony thought it a great idea to make.

while i agree about the financial part. and it's not smart business to blow money you can't make back. it seems to be what sony does.

a $25,000 TV!!!!