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Forums - Nintendo - Malstrom: "The new 2d Mario games are suffering the SMB2J problem"

RolStoppable said:
Mr Khan said:
kitler53 said:

kitler's arguement is flawed.  he was unaware of this information.

Known in America as Luigi's Lost Levels, included in Super Mario Bros Deluxe on GBC.

The game was already included in Super Mario All-Stars for the SNES five years earlier.

The Lost Levels. Beat it when I was 9 or 10.

The points he makes are valid, but they aren't the reason why the sales are lacking. Proof is NSMBWii, which seems to use largely the same engine as NSMB DS and yet sold as much. NSMBU will use almost the same engine as NSMBWii and I have no doubt it will sell well.

The issue with more of the same is not sales, but if more of the same is not properly enhanced (be it using the same engine or not), there is little reason to buy since you could as easily replay the game you loved in the first place.



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Mr Khan said:
SMB2J was really, really hard, for one.

A different factor to look at, however, could be Nintendo's mis-promotion of the coin gimmick. I was a little bothered by the premise of the game up until the point i started playing, when i realized that the coin counter is pretty much just a coin counter, and aside from the effects of the Gold Flower or Gold Rings, the game doesn't have a dramatically higher number of coins than other Mario games

We'll have to see what NSMBU does to properly assess what's going on here, though (and even that will be skewed by NSMBU being a launch title)

I am confused. Isn't SMB2 supposed to be easier according to reviews? (The new 2d Mario game for the 3DS with a stronger focus on gold coins)

And what exactly does the J mean in "SMB2J"? Is the Japanese version different?



RolStoppable said:

It's really not that important how much this game will sell in the end. What's clear is that it can't continue this way. There needs to be progress instead of stagnation on a very high level.

Malstrom has implored his readers to brainstorm new ideas for the Super Mario Bros. series, so currently he is posting a lot of e-mails concerning new world themes and the like. There's some interesting stuff to read and just the thought of it sure is awesome.


I agree, this is definitely my main quirk with the game: lack of new world themes or even lack of thematic new standards (like ghost houses) - Mario Party tables could give some nice ideas to you guys

 



Slimebeast said:
Mr Khan said:
SMB2J was really, really hard, for one.

A different factor to look at, however, could be Nintendo's mis-promotion of the coin gimmick. I was a little bothered by the premise of the game up until the point i started playing, when i realized that the coin counter is pretty much just a coin counter, and aside from the effects of the Gold Flower or Gold Rings, the game doesn't have a dramatically higher number of coins than other Mario games

We'll have to see what NSMBU does to properly assess what's going on here, though (and even that will be skewed by NSMBU being a launch title)

I am confused. Isn't SMB2 supposed to be easier according to reviews? (The new 2d Mario game for the 3DS with a stronger focus on gold coins)

And what exactly does the J mean in "SMB2J"? Is the Japanese version different?

Yes. SMB2 in the west is a different game than SMB2 in Japan. The Japanese one looks exactly like the first SMB with new levels and fetures added. SMB2 in the West was not originally a Mario game. They took the game Doki Doki Panic from Japan, reskined it with Mario character, improved the balance and animation and called it SMB2. (Don't be confused, Doki Doki Panic may be the game they skinned, but they did a lot of changes to take a medocre game and make it great.) Later they released the western version of SMB2 back in Japan as SMB USA.

Side note. I love SMB2 even more than SMB3. :) I know I will get some hate for this.



WiiBox3 said:
Slimebeast said:
Mr Khan said:
SMB2J was really, really hard, for one.

A different factor to look at, however, could be Nintendo's mis-promotion of the coin gimmick. I was a little bothered by the premise of the game up until the point i started playing, when i realized that the coin counter is pretty much just a coin counter, and aside from the effects of the Gold Flower or Gold Rings, the game doesn't have a dramatically higher number of coins than other Mario games

We'll have to see what NSMBU does to properly assess what's going on here, though (and even that will be skewed by NSMBU being a launch title)

I am confused. Isn't SMB2 supposed to be easier according to reviews? (The new 2d Mario game for the 3DS with a stronger focus on gold coins)

And what exactly does the J mean in "SMB2J"? Is the Japanese version different?

Yes. SMB2 in the west is a different game than SMB2 in Japan. The Japanese one looks exactly like the first SMB with new levels and fetures added. SMB2 in the West was not originally a Mario game. They took the game Doki Doki Panic from Japan, reskined it with Mario character, improved the balance and animation and called it SMB2. (Don't be confused, Doki Doki Panic may be the game they skinned, but they did a lot of changes to take a medocre game and make it great.) Later they released the western version of SMB2 back in Japan as SMB USA.

Side note. I love SMB2 even more than SMB3. :) I know I will get some hate for this.

Oh. That was confusing. Plus I added to it by confusing old Super Mario Brothers with the New Super Mario Brothers games.

On topic: why is Malmstrom not happy even with a 2D Mario? I thought that's exactly the type of Nintendo games he's been asking for, for yeas.



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RolStoppable said:
Slimebeast said:

Oh. That was confusing. Plus I added to it by confusing old Super Mario Brothers with the New Super Mario Brothers games.

On topic: why is Malmstrom not happy even with a 2D Mario? I thought that's exactly the type of Nintendo games he's been asking for, for yeas.

He isn't happy, because NSMB2 is stagnation. It doesn't expand the game universe. It's the same worlds revisited again.

Same worlds as in "flower world", "ice world" and "mushroom world" (just making names up here) or does he mean something else when he talks about expanding the universe?

Because I thought Malstrom was a gameplay-centric guy, and in the OP quote he seems to imply that Nintendo in fact understands that "it's about game play mechanics".

Btw, what do you think? Is NSMB2 stagnation?



JGarret said:

Very interesting what he says here:

 

NSMB sales are being severely undercut by the lack of new content and the lack of any tech or graphical showcasing. I was hoping that NSMB DS and NSMB Wii would showcase that 2d Mario is viable, and Nintendo would invest more in it. Instead, it has been the opposite. Nintendo is trying to squeeze as much revenue as possible while trying to minimize as much cost as possible. “How can you say that?” Does NSMB 2 DLC ring a bell?

“But shouldn’t all businesses do that?” What is appalling is the hypocrisy coming from Nintendo. 2d Mario, which actually sells and is universally adored, gets this lousy treatment. 3d Mario, which doesn’t sell and is not universally liked, gets an incredible budget that allows orchestrated music, new programming tech, and much money spent on the art. If anything, 3d Mario should be getting the recycled content, the ‘bah bah’ reused music, and replaying Super Mario 64 (which is what most 3d Mario fans want anyway).

Why are these two unequal games in sales, 2d Mario and 3d Mario, being treated as if 3d Mario is the flagship title? It is because there are Nintendo software developers who are more interested in 3d Mario’s success than in Nintendo’s success. If the console sales crashes and burns because of a N64, Gamecube, or 3DS (yes, 3DS is not performing in the West unlike the DS), who cares? So long as they can keep working on their precious 3d Mario, to hell if the company burns. After Mario 64 flopped and delivered the console market to Sony, any professional company would stop making Mario 64 type games. But not Nintendo.

There is a perfect correlation of the Game Industry praising Nintendo’s games when they don’t sell. When they do sell, the games are ‘awful’ or ‘not as good as people think’. And we keep hearing much encouragement from industry developers and journalists for Nintendo to keep making those games that didn’t sell. “Keep making that 3d Mario and Skyward Sword.” “Don’t you dare make more 2d Marios or Mario sports games.” “Make more games like Windwaker.” “Don’t you dare make a game like Classic Zelda.” I’m sure Microsoft and Sony love 3d Mario and hope Nintendo pours as much money as they can into it.

 

I find a lot of things wrong, and indefensible with these statements.

When did Mario 64 flop?  It sold just under 12 million copies on the N64.  It was the #1 N64 title in sales.  It was then re-released on the DS and sold nearly another 10 million putting it in the Top 10 all-time for DS software.  That's quite a few copies for a flop.  How could Mario 64 have "delivered the console market to Sony" when it's 12 million copies sold are more than any single game ever released on the Sony Play Station (Gran Turismo - 11.15 mil, Final Fantasy Fantasy VII 9.72 mil, Gran Turismo 2 - 9.36 mil)??
"3D Mario doesn't sell and is not universally liked"  Super Mario Galaxy sold 10.2 million on Wii, and is Top 10 in all-time Wii software sales.  Super Mario Galaxy 2 has sold just under 7 million copies (6.81) since it's 2010 release and is currently Top 15 in Wii software sales.  I don't think that's an indicator of titles that don't sell well and aren't universally liked.  For comparison, only 2 games in PS3's entire library of games have sold more than Mario Galaxy, and even then, not by much (Call of Duty MW3 - 12.24 mil, COD Black Ops - 11.47 mil).  And, only 5 games of XBox 360's library have sold more (Kinnect Adventures, 3 Call of Duty titles, and Halo 3).  Mario Galaxy 2's sales would place it in the Top 10 for both PS3 (it would be 6th) and XBox 360 (it would be 9th) software.  Something that doesn't sell or is not universally liked wouldn't be a Top 10 seller on it's system (or comparatively to other systems either).

And, Skyward Sword, which just released late last year, has already sold 3.36 million copies already.  Compared to PS3 software that puts it just below Batman: Arkahm Assylum, and above titles like Fallout 3, Killzone 2, and Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.  Compared to 360, that puts it just below Left 4 Dead 2, and above Battlefield Bad Company 2, Resident Evil 5, Batman Arkahm City, and Left 4 Dead.  That's pretty good company for a game that "doesn't sell" or "no one wants".  Oh, and Ocarina of Time (N64) and Twilight Princess (Wii) both outsold the original Legend of Zelda, and A Link to the Past.



Soleron said:
I like Malstrom but he shoves his dislike of modern Zelda and Metroid in every blog post related or not.

Sometimes I think his blog is about what he wants rather than as he claims, what Nintendo should do to be successful.

A lot of readers (like me) reached this conclusion after reading his stuff for a few weeks and then never bothered again. He's a fairly normal fan who happened to find a soapbox that's pretty popular with some sections of the web.



JGarret said:
If there´s one thing I wish they woud do, is to stop recycling that annoying 'wah wah' music.Seriously, fuck that music.

Oh I hear ya!!

*Still looking for that "Like"-button*



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

So... Nintendo is doomed?