Well, I just got NSMB2 today and it's soooo FUNNN!

I shall go play some more now.

From my point of view, if you want to criticize a franchise for lack of originality, then Mario shouldn't even be a consideration, because even a game that is "stagnant" by Mario standards is still more creative in its presentation and design than most other games.

But from here on out, let's talk about personal experience. In Super Mario Sunshine, I loved the then-beautiful look of Delfino Island, especially the Noki Bay area. I remember diving into a deep, underwater pit and hearing "Underwater Exploration" play, yet another beautiful water-themed piece of music. In Super Mario Galaxy, it was amazing to stare off into the vast expanse of space, and deeply satisfying to rocket through its empitness, accompanied by fittingly epic music. And like its predecessors, it had its moments of respite. Of juxtaposition. To the point where some might call it the deepest, most reasonant Mario game ever released (but of course that's very subjective).

I may be wrong, but I think the source of your frustration isn't stemming from the smartly-presented, creatively-charged 3D Mario games. I think we're both concerned about the recent (and upcoming) 2D entries in the series, since unlike most previous Mario games, they stick to a simple aesthetic that doesn't try to evoke much emotion beyond the usual pure unadulterated joy. How did this happen? It could be the change in development teams. It could be because Miyamoto isn't as involved as he used to be. But it's most likely because Nintendo believes that, at the end of the day, it takes much more effort artistically to develop a best-selling 3D Mario game than a successul 2D Mario. I hope that 3D Land's success proves to them that there's an excellent middle ground between the two approaches. I hope that the beautiful backdrops of New Super Mario Bros. U allude to more depth and emotion than previous 2D Mario games. In the meantime, though, I suggest we criticize what actually needs improving, and not squabble over the fine details of Super Mario Galaxy's soundtrack.

Nice, that you don't have a life. I don't have one either. But even I have a growing backlog of games. But the people I know with a life (especially if they have family) don't have the time to play a game for more than 30 minutes a session or even less. It's frustrating if you can only manage one cutscene in this time and have to remember the story next week then you play again. They usually prefer a quick casual game.

Obviously the Wii caters to the older people. Wii sports, Wii Fit, Brain Age even caters to retired people.

This. If I start thinking about how others see games I like, I'm back to kindergarden. As an adult all explanation that is needed is fun.

If it's hard to put into words, that is a sign that it is probably a subjective thing. Someone might consider it kiddy, others see adult themes in it. But that's personal opinion.

Another typical example would be the book 'Le Petit Prince' (The little Prince):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Prince

It seems childish on the surface, but if you actually read, it contains adult themes about trust, love and friendship, that are way too much for a child.

On antoher note: The Japanese are the coolest people in the world. Looking into the Wikpedia-article for the little prince I saw they have a museum for the little prince. Yes! I have to visit Japan some time.

I agree, and I honestly wasn't squabbling. I just wanted to give an example of something that showed the direction I disagreed with, whether that painted a good picture of the overall direction wasn't really my intent or interest, it could be just an aspect of the new direction and not the direction as a whole.

Yes, as a matter of fact you're right, my struggle is less with the 3D implementation of Mario than with the 2D one. In fact, I think SMG really did a phenomenal job in the artistic direction for many areas and aspects of the game. To me, it really is those few yet present experiences that alienate me. For instance, the hub in galaxy has a beautiful tune, but it is much too lullaby-esque. And yes, @JWein, I understand why, but it doesn't excuse the fact that it's alienating for many of us. Complement that with lumina sounds and it is really overbearing for some of us adults. Yes Phil Collins used some endearing words in his Tarzan song "You'll be in my heart", but who can't relate to the feeling of the consolation of a mother, no matter the age?

To follow your thoughts, I think the 2D version did a good job at keeping a balance, the colors were overall in line with most Mario games that far, and the music though of lesser quality was fun. However I didn't expect all 2D Marios to continue in the lesser music quality, this is one of the highest selling games Nintendo's ever made.

I remember the underwater music in Super Mario Sunshine, and I remember thinking "I'm glad Nintendo did it again", and just feeling happy that they were able to make that very close to as good as Dire Dire Docs. I was pleased. Even if it wasn't as good, at least they tried and it was darn good.

I don't find Mario games to be kiddy. They are age indifferent. Am am much more alienated by family movies which often have songs or lame kid related themes. The fact that Mario has no story to speak of saves it from being childish.

The reality that it's hard to put into words proves a few things:

1) We don't talk about it enough, those of us interested in this kind of thing, within the gamer community.

2) I lack background in the study of art to really express my thoughts.

3) I should replay all of these games again to better judge.

@Le petit prince. Yes, I'm familiar with that, and yeah I see the resemblance with SMG though I"ve never read it completely. Thing is though, LPP doesn't have any music, and that's an important element in the topic. Graphical detail is another, but maybe Nintendo needs the WiiU to impress and put more detail in the already gorgeous 3D Mario. 2D Mario is looking promising with NSMBU, but still it looks like the direction is still lacking (though more data is needed).

Give an example of a movie for kids that turns you off, I'm interested.

Cunger was going to reply to you, but instead of clicking "quote" he clicked "report".

So lo and behold I'm minding my own business when suddenly I get this giant report about Mario and Expendables and what-not... but then I realized it was all a mis-click. I was pretty confused for a second haha.

Here's his "report" on you.

You want me to be specific and that's difficult for me to do. But I'll try. Recently I was forced into watching a movie called Lorax and the whole thing just seemed to be a ploy to get kids to care about the environment. It was like a life lesson for kids. Very cheesy stuff if you are an adult. They also had a bunch of kid songs in the movie that were designed to make the movie and the environmental values stick in the kids' heads for longer. I know that always used to work with me when I was a kid. I still have some of the Lion King songs stuck in my head ;)... Mario is just strait up gameplay. If there happen to be childish moments in a Mario game I wear them like a badge. They take me back and are nostalgic. The same why I can get a kick out of the purposely cheesy moments in a movie like The Expendables 2 that take me back to a time when Chuck Norris was actually cool. The difference between Mario and Expendables is that the non-cheesy moments in Mario are actually amazing and surprising with new gameplay twists ect. If Expendables didn't have the cheesy moments it wouldn't have anything at all.