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Forums - Politics Discussion - Does Obama deserve to be re-elected?

 

Does Obama deserve to be re-elected?

Yes 77 42.78%
 
No 78 43.33%
 
Undecided 25 13.89%
 
Total:180

Personally I would say yes. He's gotten a lot done considering how much opposition he's had on the other side. Even if you didn't think he deserved to be re-elected, Mitt Romney is not an acceptable alternative.



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Mr Khan said:

under the American system, it is throwing away your vote. If there are 5 candidates, with one getting 23%, three getting 20%, and one getting 17%, Mr. 23 gets all the marbles, and the votes of 77% of the population are rendered utterly meaningless. So it is natural that we try to accumulate as broad of political parties as possible, leading to our milquetoast Right-wing and Left-wing parties, because you need a candidate with as broad appeal as possible, for fear that the other guy is slightly more popular.

You could argue that any time you vote for the loser, you're throwing away your vote (like in the last election when it was pretty apparent McCain would lose). Chances are, the election won't be decided by one vote anyway, so you don't even really need to vote. You're not going to have much of an impact on the election. Yes, if everyone felt that way, no one would vote and the system would break down. But how many national elections are decided by one vote? Even Florida in 2000 had a difference of over 500 votes.

As I said before, I believe that voting for the candidate I think will do the best job is not throwing my vote away, and to do otherwise is implicitly agreeing with something that I don't actually agree with. I don't expect Johnson to win, but I do want his platform to be heard by more people.



Of course. He just didn't deserve the nobel prize.



insomniac17 said:
Mr Khan said:

under the American system, it is throwing away your vote. If there are 5 candidates, with one getting 23%, three getting 20%, and one getting 17%, Mr. 23 gets all the marbles, and the votes of 77% of the population are rendered utterly meaningless. So it is natural that we try to accumulate as broad of political parties as possible, leading to our milquetoast Right-wing and Left-wing parties, because you need a candidate with as broad appeal as possible, for fear that the other guy is slightly more popular.

You could argue that any time you vote for the loser, you're throwing away your vote (like in the last election when it was pretty apparent McCain would lose). Chances are, the election won't be decided by one vote anyway, so you don't even really need to vote. You're not going to have much of an impact on the election. Yes, if everyone felt that way, no one would vote and the system would break down. But how many national elections are decided by one vote? Even Florida in 2000 had a difference of over 500 votes.

As I said before, I believe that voting for the candidate I think will do the best job is not throwing my vote away, and to do otherwise is implicitly agreeing with something that I don't actually agree with. I don't expect Johnson to win, but I do want his platform to be heard by more people.

In a way that proves my point. If the Nader folks had swallowed their pride and voted for Gore, he would have easily won Florida, and US history would have been changed for so much better. I believe McCain lost both North Carolina and Indiana in 2008 by smaller margins than those who voted for Bob Barr, and so the libertarians could have averted (or tried to avert) what (for them) is the Obama disaster. And then, of course, there's Ross Perot and George Bush in 1992.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

insomniac17 said:
gergroy said:

Thats a very small part of the reason.  The main reason that 3rd paries dont do well is because they dont have a credible campaign.  3rd party candidates can be successful, it just hasnt happened since the 90s and ross perot.  Ross perot was leading both clinton and bush at one point before he self destructed, and it is because he had a real effort.  

The reason why 3rd parties like johnson arent successful is they dont have money and spend most of the time complaining about lack of coverage instead of actually doing something about it.  

Now, come voting day and a 3rd party candidate is actually polling well then i would consider that candidate an option.  Otherwise, it is throwing away your vote and your chance to have the lesser of the two evils.  Instead, you will just get the bigger evil for 4 years.

Lack of coverage is a large problem, and quite honestly not entirely their fault. It is significantly harder for 3rd parties to do well because the Republicans and Democrats didn't like what happened with Perot, and made it harder for them to get coverage. And if people don't know who they are, how can they raise more money to compete? I think they're right to complain about the lack of coverage. But I also think that they do try to do something about it. It's just that without coverage, it's really hard to do.

The best example is the difficulty of getting into the presidential debates. Many people watch those, but if there are only two candidates in them, then how are the rest supposed to get their position out there? It's exclusion of other candidates based on an arbitrary number. The only limitation for getting into the debates should be based on if it's even possible for a candidate to earn enough electoral votes to win.

And ending up with a worse evil might not be bad. Maybe we need to fail badly for people to wake up and realize that things are not going well. At the very least, if you get a horrible person in for 4 years, there's a better chance of getting someone at least slightly better in the next election.


Media covers those that have a chance of winning.  I agree that it is harder for 3rd parties to get coverage because they arent part of the two mainparties that people are used to.  However, if they actually had a good candidate they could easily get past that.  If they had an amazing message that every american agreed with then they would catch on and get plenty of coverage.  That is what happened with perot.  

The problem is that most 3rd parties are just redudant ideas that are already represented in the two main parties or they are too extreme for most americans.  

The biggest problem though is that these parties just cant field good candidates.  Look at johnson, he was running as a republican and he couldnt even get 2% support needed to get into most of the debates.  He just simply isnt a good candidate.

As far as presidential debates, i agree they should be more inclusive, but having your name on the ballot shouldnt get you an automatic invitation, they should be able show a broad base of support, probably 20% so that the debates can focus on candidates that actually have a chance.

And ending up with a worse evil may not be bad?  That just makes people even more desperate and you could very well end up with someone worse next time.  Thats just bad logic.



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i would vote for the communist party



Mr Khan said:
insomniac17 said:
gergroy said:

And yes, those voting 3rd party are wasting their vote. Voting for the losing guy with no chance is the equivalent of staying home and not voting. Personally, i most likely am staying home as I live in utah and the results of my state are already decided. If they didnt have the electoral college system i might be more inclined to vote. I dont know why they dont do popular vote...

You have a very bleak outlook on voting 3rd party. For me, it is a statement against something that I don't approve of. If I vote for Romney or Obama, I am saying that I approve of whichever one I pick. But I don't. Therefore, I won't vote for either one. Part of the reason why 3rd parties never do well is because everyone thinks that it's throwing away your vote. You should vote for who you think will do the best job, not just the lesser of two evils.

under the American system, it is throwing away your vote. If there are 5 candidates, with one getting 23%, three getting 20%, and one getting 17%, Mr. 23 gets all the marbles, and the votes of 77% of the population are rendered utterly meaningless. So it is natural that we try to accumulate as broad of political parties as possible, leading to our milquetoast Right-wing and Left-wing parties, because you need a candidate with as broad appeal as possible, for fear that the other guy is slightly more popular.

This.

Thank you.



insomniac17 said:
Mr Khan said:

under the American system, it is throwing away your vote. If there are 5 candidates, with one getting 23%, three getting 20%, and one getting 17%, Mr. 23 gets all the marbles, and the votes of 77% of the population are rendered utterly meaningless. So it is natural that we try to accumulate as broad of political parties as possible, leading to our milquetoast Right-wing and Left-wing parties, because you need a candidate with as broad appeal as possible, for fear that the other guy is slightly more popular.

You could argue that any time you vote for the loser, you're throwing away your vote (like in the last election when it was pretty apparent McCain would lose). Chances are, the election won't be decided by one vote anyway, so you don't even really need to vote. You're not going to have much of an impact on the election. Yes, if everyone felt that way, no one would vote and the system would break down. But how many national elections are decided by one vote? Even Florida in 2000 had a difference of over 500 votes.

As I said before, I believe that voting for the candidate I think will do the best job is not throwing my vote away, and to do otherwise is implicitly agreeing with something that I don't actually agree with. I don't expect Johnson to win, but I do want his platform to be heard by more people.

So, this is what is going to happen in november.  Johnson will get 3 to 5% of the vote.  You being one of the people that voted for him.  Will that mean more people will suddenly hear about his platform after the election?  No, you might hear how he played spoiler for romney in a couple of states, but the media isnt going to be shouting his platform at you because he got some votes.

If anything, johnsons success would probably weaken the libertarian movement, as he would get blamed for romney losing just like nader got balmed for gore losing.  Is the green party better off now?  Nope, just pushed more of them to stay home or just vote democrat.



gergroy said:

Personally, I am not excited about either option this year.  I was all for Obama 4 years ago when he ran on a platform of hope and change.  However, very little has changed and the changes havent always been better.  Now, Obama is running on a platform of look how bad this guy is, I can do better than him.  Isnt that sad?  Shouldnt he be talking about the change he wants to bring?  

Now, I'm not saying romney is much better, his platform is the same as Obamas.  Basically, my question is does Obama actually deserve to be re-elected?  If so, why isnt he telling us why?

It's not even that. It's "look how rich this guy is" and "look at how this guy did his job which I find morally wrong".

Seriously, if you're going to attack Romney, there are plenty of legitimate ways to do it. I'm surprised he hasn't attacked Romney for being a Mormon yet, at the rate he's going.



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Kantor said:
gergroy said:

Personally, I am not excited about either option this year.  I was all for Obama 4 years ago when he ran on a platform of hope and change.  However, very little has changed and the changes havent always been better.  Now, Obama is running on a platform of look how bad this guy is, I can do better than him.  Isnt that sad?  Shouldnt he be talking about the change he wants to bring?  

Now, I'm not saying romney is much better, his platform is the same as Obamas.  Basically, my question is does Obama actually deserve to be re-elected?  If so, why isnt he telling us why?

It's not even that. It's "look how rich this guy is" and "look at how this guy did his job which I find morally wrong".

Seriously, if you're going to attack Romney, there are plenty of legitimate ways to do it. I'm surprised he hasn't attacked Romney for being a Mormon yet, at the rate he's going.


Well if he attacks Romney for being mormon then it just opens obama up to the reverend wright crap again.

Im sure both of their super pacs will be going after the religous aspect eventually.